White House Declares June to be Official LGBT Pride Month - Polidicks

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44979401]So your argument is, that because other groups need help as well, we can't support LGBT people?[/QUOTE] Not quite. My argument is that I want to see reasoning behind the decision to use legal measures to represent one group over another. I can understand that LGBT individuals suffer stress, abuse, conformity etc.. but I can't seem to accept the fact that there is priority of one social group over another when a administrational organization/figure of authority is suppose to support all groups equally.

I don't feel this, or any other form of "pride" arrangements are necessary.

[QUOTE=Arctic Snow;44979439]Not quite. My argument is that I want to see reasoning behind the decision to use legal measures to represent one group over another. I can understand that LGBT individuals suffer stress, abuse, conformity etc.. but I can't seem to accept the fact that there is priority of one social group over another when a administrational organization/figure of authority is suppose to support all groups equally.[/QUOTE] In your opinion, which groups are more repressed than LGBT people, and need that representation instead.

[QUOTE=Arctic Snow;44979379]Hey thanks for the delicately constructed argument attempting to persuade my opinion, I have freed myself from my ignorant and misinformed beliefs and have accepted yours with arms wide open! This is what I don't understand about facepuch (generalization), you guys seem like above average intellectuals but you guys have a tendency to use arguments that favor pseudo-factual jabs over discussions.[/QUOTE] How about this. If those other groups that feel that they are lacking recognition and would like a national week or month in their name/cause, they can ask for it and it can be discussed through normal channels. This is not a zero-sum game. America celebrates Black History Month every year (even if, from responses in this thread, it's pretty much over after the first week as everyone gets on with their lives) to recognize and remember, well, the history of blacks in America. They suffered incalculable injustice, pain, and often death at the hands of slaveowners and racists and hate groups. They have endured through centuries of adversity. America is currently fighting over whether or not to accept LGBT people as equals, because apparently this is that difficult to answer (shortcut: [B]yes[/B]), and progress is being held back by retrograde bigots who fear and distrust what they don't understand. The Obama administration is pushing to bring equality to all American citizens, not just those who want to stick their genitals in the Biblically-approved gender's genitals, and what better way to highlight this than by making a month out of it? [QUOTE=Arctic Snow;44979303]I just find it peculiar that a WHOLE social group may receive special legal support.[/QUOTE] And, the whole problem is that this group [B]doesn't[/B] have legal support. That's the entire point. The battle is over denying queer people legal rights given to straight people. Whether you know it or not, you are actually defending keeping queers as second-class citizens.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44979478]In your opinion, which groups are more repressed than LGBT people, and need that representation instead.[/QUOTE] Well you're putting me on the spot haha. -The financially disadvantage (the poor) -The homeless -Peoples in need of medical treatment whether that be physical or psychological (I guess trans people could fall under this section) -Peoples suffering from sex trades and other illegal activities -War victims, with emphasis on civilians or refugees [QUOTE=elixwhitetail;44979483]How about this. If those other groups that feel that they are lacking recognition and would like a national week or month in their name/cause, they can ask for it and it can be discussed through normal channels. This is not a zero-sum game. America celebrates Black History Month every year (even if, from responses in this thread, it's pretty much over after the first week as everyone gets on with their lives) to recognize and remember, well, the history of blacks in America. They suffered incalculable injustice, pain, and often death at the hands of slaveowners and racists and hate groups. They have endured through centuries of adversity. America is currently fighting over whether or not to accept LGBT people as equals, because apparently this is that difficult to answer (shortcut: [B]yes[/B]), and progress is being held back by retrograde bigots who fear and distrust what they don't understand. The Obama administration is pushing to bring equality to all American citizens, not just those who want to stick their genitals in the Biblically-approved gender's genitals, and what better way to highlight this than by making a month out of it? And, the whole problem is that this group [B]doesn't[/B] have legal support. That's the entire point. The battle is over denying queer people legal rights given to straight people. Whether you know it or not, you are actually defending keeping queers as second-class citizens.[/QUOTE] Understandable. Its just that with our limited resources and limited capabilities, the rights of LGBT's should not be a priority at this moment (it is however a issue that should be addressed). As I listed above there are issues that need to be resolved that in my opinion are of greater concern to the welfare of the human race.

[QUOTE=Arctic Snow;44979592]Well you're putting me on the spot haha. -The financially disadvantage (the poor) -The homeless -Peoples in need of medical treatment whether that be physical or psychological (I guess trans people could fall under this section) -Peoples suffering from sex trades and other illegal activities -War victims, with emphasis on civilians or refugees [/QUOTE] Last time I checked, you don't see people being dragged into the streets and beaten/killed solely for being poor. You don't see these people being unable to marry because religious groups don't want you to. You don't see these people being taunted at school for being a war victim or for being a refuge (save racism). You don't see people saying they hate you and yelling that you will burn in hell because you're a victim of human trafficking or whatnot.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44979714]Last time I checked, you don't see people being dragged into the streets and beaten/killed solely for being poor. You don't see these people being unable to marry because religious groups don't want you to. You don't see these people being taunted at school for being a war victim or for being a refuge (save racism). You don't see people saying they hate you and yelling that you will burn in hell because you're a victim of human trafficking or whatnot.[/QUOTE] Well lets perform a comparative analysis. The poor aren't being provisioned food that is nutritional, and beneficial to their bodies. They aren't able to afford appropriate healthcare (argument for America). They don't get access to a wide variation of entertainment. They live in run downed areas susceptible to crime and illegal drug transactions. The homeless are not provided a place for relaxation, safety and comfortability. They are viewed by society as degenerates who suffer from similar issues as the poor (bad food/healthcare). The people who need medical treatment varies as this deals with the severity of the symptom, condition or disease. Insurance is costly and those in low income families cannot sustain a healthy family, or would go bankrupt if a serious incident happened. People who suffer from illegal activities also have to experience physical pain and torture. They aren't able to integrate themselves back into society. War victims will lose their homes, their family, and their livelihood. So.. when you compare that to.. Being beaten/killed, okay this is tragic The only beneficial aspect of marriage is the legal benefits that are given along by the government. Everything else can be achieve without a ring on someone's finger. Taunting at school can inflict psychological damage and lower self esteem, which should be a issue with the social structures that exist within educational institutions, not LGBT groups. Receiving verbal abuse for different sexual orientation/gender is quite far from the torment and consequences of being a human sex slave.

To be fair I feel like the majority of posts in this thread support the point of an awareness month since I've only seen people mentioning the LG in LGBT.

Why don't we just have a human pride month We celebrate what we are ect ect

[QUOTE=Arctic Snow;44979864]Well lets perform a comparative analysis. The poor aren't being provisioned food that is nutritional, and beneficial to their bodies. They aren't able to afford appropriate healthcare (argument for America). They don't get access to a wide variation of entertainment. They live in run downed areas susceptible to crime and illegal drug transactions. The homeless are not provided a place for relaxation, safety and comfortability. They are viewed by society as degenerates who suffer from similar issues as the poor (bad food/healthcare). The people who need medical treatment varies as this deals with the severity of the symptom, condition or disease. Insurance is costly and those in low income families cannot sustain a healthy family, or would go bankrupt if a serious incident happened. People who suffer from illegal activities also have to experience physical pain and torture. They aren't able to integrate themselves back into society. War victims will lose their homes, their family, and their livelihood. So.. when you compare that to.. Being beaten/killed, okay this is tragic The only beneficial aspect of marriage is the legal benefits that are given along by the government. Everything else can be achieve without a ring on someone's finger. Taunting at school can inflict psychological damage and lower self esteem, which should be a issue with the social structures that exist within educational institutions, not LGBT groups. Receiving verbal abuse for different sexual orientation/gender is quite far from the torment and consequences of being a human sex slave.[/QUOTE] I guess the difference is that helping the people you mentioned costs a significant amount of money. You can't address the issue of the poor and homeless without talking about class division and income inequality, and you can't talk about the others without talking about social problems. I agree that there is a taboo against talking about mental health issues, but you can fix that problem simultaneously alongside removing the anti-LGBT sentiments that some people have. The thing with LGBT rights, and therefore the point of having an LGBT month, is that their issues stem purely from social/societal factors. It costs nothing to not be homophobic, but it costs money to give people homes, give people food, treat mental health issues, etc. Dealing with LGBT issues, is therefore, a low hanging frui - Allowing things like gay marriage really shouldn't cause a huge controversy. However housing people actually costs money. There already is a mental health awareness week (at least here in Canada) You could easily extend that to an entire month.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44979401]So your argument is, that because other groups need help as well, we can't support LGBT people?[/QUOTE] when people say shit like this, it basically proves that they're dumbasses that don't actually care about anybody. if somebody LEGITIMATELY cared about everyone, they wouldn't hold stupid opinions such as but not limited to "we can't do *proactive thing* because *worse thing* exists! *sits on his fucking ass and does nothing instead*"

[QUOTE=Arctic Snow;44979864]Well lets perform a comparative analysis. The poor aren't being provisioned food that is nutritional, and beneficial to their bodies. They aren't able to afford appropriate healthcare (argument for America). They don't get access to a wide variation of entertainment. They live in run downed areas susceptible to crime and illegal drug transactions. The homeless are not provided a place for relaxation, safety and comfortability. They are viewed by society as degenerates who suffer from similar issues as the poor (bad food/healthcare). The people who need medical treatment varies as this deals with the severity of the symptom, condition or disease. Insurance is costly and those in low income families cannot sustain a healthy family, or would go bankrupt if a serious incident happened. People who suffer from illegal activities also have to experience physical pain and torture. They aren't able to integrate themselves back into society. War victims will lose their homes, their family, and their livelihood. So.. when you compare that to.. Being beaten/killed, okay this is tragic The only beneficial aspect of marriage is the legal benefits that are given along by the government. Everything else can be achieve without a ring on someone's finger. Taunting at school can inflict psychological damage and lower self esteem, which should be a issue with the social structures that exist within educational institutions, not LGBT groups. Receiving verbal abuse for different sexual orientation/gender is quite far from the torment and consequences of being a human sex slave.[/QUOTE] You killed your entire argument when you brought it to an international level, then went on to only address problems homosexuals face in America. As opposed to their treatment in other nations.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44979951]I guess the difference is that helping people who own nothing costs a significant amount of mone. You can't address the issue of the poor and homeless without talking about class division and income inequality, and you can't talk about the others without talking about social problems. I agree that there is a taboo against talking about mental health issues, but you can fix that problem simultaneously alongside removing the anti-LGBT sentiments that some people have. The issue with LGBT rights, and therefore the point of having an LGBT month, is that their issues stem purely from social/societal factors. It costs nothing to not be homophobic, but it costs money to give people homes, give people food, treat mental health issues, etc. Dealing with LGBT issues, is therefore, a low hanging frui - Allowing things like gay marriage really shouldn't cause a huge controversy. However housing people actually costs money. There already is a mental health awareness week (at least here in Canada) You could easily extend that to an entire month.[/QUOTE] A green paper note with implicated value is the omnipotent force we live to serve for. It's refreshing to hear about Canada's progressive nature. [editline]3rd June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=milkandcooki;44979994]when people say shit like this, it basically proves that they're dumbasses that don't actually care about anybody. if somebody LEGITIMATELY cared about everyone, they wouldn't hold stupid opinions such as but not limited to "we can't do *proactive thing* because *worse thing* exists! *sits on his fucking ass and does nothing instead*"[/QUOTE] I am merely pointing out the issues that surround society, and the priorities that I believe in. Of course I'm not gonna do shit about it dude, I'm 17 and have no political influence. [editline]3rd June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=plunger435;44980036]You killed your entire argument when you brought it to an international level, then went on to only address problems homosexuals face in America. As opposed to their treatment in other nations.[/QUOTE] It seems so. Well I am mainly trying to address problems within American society (as the thread is about LGBT month in the US), but those issues that I listed can be applied globally. While the view on homosexually in other parts of the world are more horrendous.

I feel this whole pride of something you are born with thing is dumb. It takes no effort to be born as a gay person, or a straight person. I feel one should only be proud of accomplishing something, like working 5 years on a degree in engineering and succeeding, losing weight and living healthier, finishing that project that you worked so long and hard at it. Just being proud of having a penis or a vagina for the sake of it is just stupid. Also, how come being proud of being straight is considered anti-gay, while being proud of being gay is considered fantastic?

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;44979918]Why don't we just have a human pride month We celebrate what we are ect ect[/QUOTE] because that's a dumb bullshit defeatist way to deal with our terrible history. i mean, why take responsibility for how we've fucked up when we can just ignore problems that individual groups face and instead go "human rights!!!" yeah, no shit, virtually every not-stupid human being in the world agrees that humans should all be equal, but unfortunately we've got to take affirmative action and give some people a leg up. if we just, right like tomorrow, put everybody in the same type of houses and give them all the same goddamn jobs, a handful of people are STILL going to be ahead because we've all had this racist bullshit ingrained in our society for hundreds of years. that's why colleges have "unfair" quotas for what races they can let in. that's why we have the "unfair" 50/50 gender split thing for sports in a lot of schools in the US that I forgot the name of. the only reason why these systems are garbage and not fair is because a bunch of racist-ass sexist-ass politicians had hissy fits and refused to let them pass unless they fit their dumbass specifications which basically butchered the entire thing

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44980175] that's why colleges have "unfair" quotas for what races they can let in. that's why we have the "unfair" 50/50 gender split thing for sports in a lot of schools in the US that I forgot the name of. the only reason why these systems are garbage and not fair is because a bunch of racist-ass sexist-ass politicians had hissy fits and refused to let them pass unless they fit their dumbass specifications which basically butchered the entire thing[/QUOTE] People don't say it's [B]"[/B]unfair[B]"[/B] because they've been holding some sort of oppresion agenda of only letting certain people in, people say it's [B]"[/B]unfair[B]"[/B] because it turns it into a problem by comparison. I.E. for colleges someone who's going to waste their education and go by a "c's make degrees" mindset will get accepted if they fall under the quotas have to be met. Same goes for jobs, it's [B]"[/B]unfair[B]"[/B] because someone who's actually qualified will get turned down for someone who isn't so they can make their quota. It's [B]"[/B]unfair[B]"[/B] because it's literally a flawed system.

[QUOTE=Mr.95;44980563]People don't say it's [B]"[/B]unfair[B]"[/B] because they've been holding some sort of oppresion agenda of only letting certain people in, people say it's [B]"[/B]unfair[B]"[/B] because it turns it into a problem by comparison. I.E. for colleges someone who's going to waste their education and go by a "c's make degrees" mindset will get accepted if they fall under the quotas have to be met. Same goes for jobs, it's [B]"[/B]unfair[B]"[/B] because someone who's actually qualified will get turned down for someone who isn't so they can make their quota. It's [B]"[/B]unfair[B]"[/B] because it's literally a flawed system.[/QUOTE] Nobody qualified for a job will get turned down in favour of somebody unqualified just to meet a quota. Like, holy shit that's bad business practice and any business that does that deserves any problems that arise from hiring employees that cannot function. Enforcing representation of minorities in fields where they are largely ignored isn't an inherently bad thing. We could be sitting on goldmines of talent that get wasted due to racist/ sexist hiring practices or the weird societal expectations for career paths.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;44980777]Nobody qualified for a job will get turned down in favour of somebody unqualified just to meet a quota. Like, holy shit that's bad business practice and any business that does that deserves any problems that arise from hiring employees that cannot function. Enforcing representation of minorities in fields where they are largely ignored isn't an inherently bad thing. We could be sitting on goldmines of talent that get wasted due to racist/ sexist hiring practices or the weird societal expectations for career paths.[/QUOTE] Not a debate thing here but does England handle it better? The area I live handles it poorly, and a lot of it results in little to no quality control. If they handle it differently over there we're probably looking at the same thing but from two different angles.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeixtYS-P3s[/media]

[QUOTE=Pantz Master;44981008][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeixtYS-P3s[/media][/QUOTE] Ah yes, morgan freeman, the voice of all black people! After all he is [I]very [/I]representative of the group as a whole, as he is a rich actor amongst a population with little to no social mobility... a perfect example! [editline]2nd June 2014[/editline] But sarcasm aside, people seem to be misinterpreting his words. Morgan Freeman doesn't want black history relegated to one month. He seems to be acknowledging the fact that history, educationally and culturally, is predominantly white, and this is what's problematic.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;44981422]Ah yes, morgan freeman, the voice of all black people! After all he is [I]very [/I]representative of the group as a whole, as he is a rich actor amongst a population with little to no social mobility... a perfect example![/quote] You make a fair point about Morgan Freeman not being a good representation of the average black man in America. [quote]But sarcasm aside, people seem to be misinterpreting his words. Morgan Freeman doesn't want black history relegated to one month. He seems to be acknowledging the fact that history, educationally and culturally, is predominantly white, and this is what's problematic.[/QUOTE] But he literally says to stop talking about racism.

I agree with Max. If history, no matter the race/sexuality/whatever, was teach at school, it would be wonderful. Unfortunately, that's not the case, and that's why things like LGBT Pride month or Black History month are necessary, to put the minorities on the spotlight.

[QUOTE=Pantz Master;44981485] But he literally says to stop talking about racism.[/QUOTE] Not talking about a problem is an awful way to fix it. That's the problem with people who say they "don't see color;" just because all of the middle class white liberals tell themselves they don't see race doesn't mean all of the actual racists are going to do that too and even if [I]they[/I] did, racism would still exist outside the scope of individuals' actions and persist systemically as it is, codified into our legal and social institutions. So yeah, you, personally, should treat everybody equally but that doesn't mean you should turn a blind eye to the fact that society [i]does not treat everybody equally[/i]. Convincing yourself that you don't "see" race and refusing to talk about racism will just make invisible to you the larger mechanisms of racism; ones that won't cease to exist just because you refuse to acknowledge them. That's why this term "institutional racism" is used: our society's problem with racism extends further than lone individuals holding prejudiced views.

Why would we ever rely on the US government to solve this problem? Why do they have the authority to declare a month, a week, or even a day anything? This is a social problem and the White House isn't in charge of that. It's a good idea to get people motivated to focus on the issue, but it greatly upsets me that it took them, of all people, to say something. People need to be more active about this kind of thing. I haven't seen any LGBT PSAs on television or the internet, but because the government said they should, people will start airing them. My point is that the majority of people are going to start agreeing with LGBT Pride Month primarily because the government said they should and it'll make them look better. They're doing it for the wrong reasons.

[QUOTE=Pantz Master;44981485]But he literally says to stop talking about racism.[/QUOTE] You don't solve a problem by ignoring it.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;44981622]You don't solve a problem by ignoring it.[/QUOTE] Deciding to not refer to somebody as a black man isn't ignoring the problem. It's actively deciding to not focus on what we call racial traits. [editline]2nd June 2014[/editline] If a person doesn't treat the qualities of any given race as anything special, their children probably won't either.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;44981622]You don't solve a problem by ignoring it.[/QUOTE] Correct. I was refuting your statement, not agreeing with Freeman.

[QUOTE=Mr.95;44980885]Not a debate thing here but does England handle it better? The area I live handles it poorly, and a lot of it results in little to no quality control. If they handle it differently over there we're probably looking at the same thing but from two different angles.[/QUOTE] I really don't know how well it works over here or anything. Being a white male I'm on the wrong side of it all really. And I don't think it's looked at too much. The last example I am aware of is the BBC looking at hiring more female comedians for panel shows because they're pretty much sausage fests right now. [editline]2nd June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Foxtrot200;44981667]Deciding to not refer to somebody as a black man isn't ignoring the problem. It's actively deciding to not focus on what we call racial traits. [editline]2nd June 2014[/editline] If a person doesn't treat the qualities of any given race as anything special, their children probably won't either.[/QUOTE] Mentally erasing the concepts of race and such isn't exactly a great fix either. People are different, talking about how we are different isn't a bad thing. Cultures and such are interesting to discuss and experience. Even between the different racial groups in the same country there are cultural differences. Treating others as inferior for being different is where the problem comes in.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;44982141]Mentally erasing the concepts of race and such isn't exactly a great fix either. People are different, talking about how we are different isn't a bad thing. Cultures and such are interesting to discuss and experience. Even between the different racial groups in the same country there are cultural differences. Treating others as inferior for being different is where the problem comes in.[/QUOTE] Well, yeah, acknowledging that a lot of people within a region or culture have similar features isn't necessarily bad. You can acknowledge that and still not be considered racist as long as you don't immediately assume that somebody follows the culture you associate their features with, but when you have problems with another culture, it's easy to dislike people with features common among that culture because those features remind you of the culture you don't agree with. It's important to be mindful of that and catch yourself if it happens. Hell, teach your kids that. If they are more mindful of their own nature, they'll be more likely to correct it.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;44982141]Being a white male I'm on the wrong side of it all really.[/QUOTE] How so?