"Clinton aides blame loss on everything but themselves" - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51355215]I'm already hearing it from Democrats I try to talk to. They are toeing the party line: She was a great candidate with a great strategy, it was just that America has too many bigots and racists and that's why she lost.[/QUOTE] Are you sure they don't actually believe that? Most strong liberals I know actually do think that the racists, homophobes, islamophobes, etc. are the reason she lost, even those who didn't like her much.

She still might have won if she didn't pick Tim fucking Kaine as a running mate. Who even gave a shit about Kaine? He's a milquetoast unoffensive nobody who's too boring to have even thought of doing anything progressive, and he holds centrist positions on TPP and NAFTA and even abortion. He's the establishment's wet dream, and they're trying to paint him like a phoenix from the ashes of their dumpster fire ticket. I don't think anyone's buying it anymore.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51355215]I'm already hearing it from Democrats I try to talk to. They are toeing the party line: She was a great candidate with a great strategy, it was just that America has too many bigots and racists and that's why she lost.[/QUOTE] Jesus fucking christ, how delusional. People need to look at this fucking situation logically. What are the variables that you can change and experiment with in an election year to produce an actually goddamn successful campaign? That's right, candidate, platform, and [i]not counting your fucking eggs before they hatch[/i]. What are the variables that you can't experiment with? The fundamental temperament of the electorate. Do I think the American people should've voted for Trump? Fuck no. But to act as if "Oh, we did nothing wrong, it's THEIR fault." is... Detached from reality, to be entirely honest. That's an attitude that's going to put the democrats on a losing streak for at LEAST the better part of the next decade if they don't get convinced otherwise.

[QUOTE=Pitchfork;51355569]She still might have won if she didn't pick Tim fucking Kaine as a running mate. Who even gave a shit about Kaine? He's a milquetoast unoffensive nobody who's too boring to have even thought of doing anything progressive, and he holds centrist positions on TPP and NAFTA and even abortion. He's the establishment's wet dream, and they're trying to paint him like a phoenix from the ashes of their dumpster fire ticket. I don't think anyone's buying it anymore.[/QUOTE] It's probably because he was head of the DNC and it was a way of rewarding loyalty.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51351119]At least fucking Trump earned his victory. Nobody wanted that guy to be president. Meanwhile Clinton has to steal money from downticket candidates and not only sink the chances of a blue Congress but still end up losing the election.[/QUOTE] What a fricking life. Clinton borderline cheated and still lost fair and square. Depressing! What a turd in Hillary's spiked punch! [QUOTE]How do we change the DNC without having a presence already there? All efforts to attempt to fix their system have failed thus far.[/QUOTE] Leave them. Join the green party. The Green Party isnt as set in their ways and havent left their idealistic phase yet.

[QUOTE=Guriosity;51355655]What a fricking life. Clinton borderline cheated and still lost fair and square. Depressing! What a turd in Hillary's spiked punch! Leave them. Join the green party. The Green Party isnt as set in their ways and havent left their idealistic phase yet.[/QUOTE] The Green Party is filled with nutjobs who think Vaccines cause autism, GMOs give us cancer, and other weird far-left conspiracy theories I'd rather have the Democratic party be reformed.

[QUOTE=Pitchfork;51353043]Fucking enough. What can we actually do to stop this. It's ridiculous. What is the real-world solution to this headache-inducing bullshit? What is there that I and my idiot friends can get together and do to ensure these motherfucking cunts get what's coming to them?[/QUOTE] Get involved with the green party. They have small numbers and a sudden influx of membership would get the DNC's attention. Nothing scares people in charge more straight then realizing their org about to have no more customers. [QUOTE]I'd rather have the Democratic party be reformed.[/QUOTE] They are smaller and younger, thus easier to reform. If a large amount of ex dems join the green party, their views will get modified. Green party not your thing? Join an alt left org and make it grow. Any thing other then the democrats. Its easier to change a small, young org with huge influx of new members then it is to change a large org stuck with pre existing inertia. Create a new coalition of alt left orgs. The main idea is the more the DNC shrinks, the more they will go into panic mode and be more open to changing and making reforms. You do this by working to create an alternative org or reform a smaller, younger one from inside. As long people stick with the DNC out of "necessity" shit wont change.

[B]SHE STILL HASN'T LEARNED ANYTHING![/B] :hairpull: [url]http://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000158-5445-dd77-a35b-7e7f5bf00000[/url] [QUOTE] We knew from the start of this election cycle that our campaign faced a series of structural challenges with which we needed to contend: [B]*[/B] Global forces that we’re driving deep-seated anger at institutions the world over, and an angry and alienated electorate at home that was frustrated with our political economic system. [B]*[/B] The inherent desire for change after one party occupies the White House for two-terms. [B]*[/B] [B]The unprecedented task of electing the first woman to the highest office in the land.[/B] [B]*[/B] And the challenges of reassembling the coalition that elected President Obama twice. [...] [B]We disqualified Donald Trump, making him unfit to be president[/B] [B]*[/B] [B]Exit polls show that 63% of voters do not believe Trump has the temperament to be president.[/B] [B]*[/B] Exit polls also showed that he was the most unpopular nominee on Election Day of any candidate in modern history with a net favorability of -22 (38-60). [...] Our data also showed that we had strong support in the early vote and we’re poised to assemble a winning coalition of women, African-Americans, Latinos, AAPI, and college-educated white voters. [B]But then everything changed in the last week.[/B] [B]*[/B] Director Comey released his first letter 11 days out from the election, [B]which likely helped to depress turnout among Hillary’s supporters. It made Sec. Clinton’s e-mail the focus of the campaign for half of the remaining 10 days.[/B] [B]There is no question that a week from Election Day, Sec. Clinton was poised for a historic win.[/B] In the end, less than 110K votes out of tens of millions cast on Election Day made the difference in this race. It is worth noting that Jill Stein alone got 130K votes in those three states [...] [B]*[/B] In the end, [B]late breaking developments in the race proved one hurdle too many for us to overcome.[/B] [/QUOTE]

They're not going to. Berniecrats should split off and make their own party, in my opinion.

Fucking hell Clinton "IT'S COMEYS FAULT" "IT'S JILL STEINS FAULT" "I DID NOTHING WRONG"

[quote]There is no question that a week from Election Day, Sec. Clinton was poised for a historic win. In the end, less than 110K votes out of tens of millions cast on Election Day made the difference in this race. It is worth noting that Jill Stein alone got 130K votes in those three states---and though her votes don't distribute perfectly to cover the margin across the three states, it is an important reminder of the influence of 3rd party votes.[/quote] Man, Jill Stein was the least of your problems.

[QUOTE=SelfishDragon;51355735]Fucking hell Clinton "IT'S COMEYS FAULT" "IT'S JILL STEINS FAULT" "I DID NOTHING WRONG"[/QUOTE] Her aides probably want to avoid taking blame lest they accidentally spontaneously catch fire while falling down a flight of stairs.

[QUOTE=Turnips5;51353479]they should have seen the writing on the wall. I am not convinced that Bernie would have stormed to inexorable victory like some people think (anyone remember his "whites don't know poverty" gaffe? I bet you didn't!) but he was [B]the [/B]candidate for this election. we were denied him, essentially by a band of conspirators.[/QUOTE] After taking some time to think it through I'm not actually certain whether Sanders would have actually won or not. He most assuredly would have had better chances against Trump but when the biggest difference between Clinton and Sanders is also a significant portion of where Trump's votes came from it's more iffy. Since a lot of those people are uneducated they'd be likely to consider Sanders' policies more unrealistic than Trump's, though it could easily have gone either way still. (Also I do remember that hiccup, I just think that in comparison to the constant stupidity both other candidates spewed it's quite forgivable.)

[QUOTE=Alice3173;51355857]After taking some time to think it through I'm not actually certain whether Sanders would have actually won or not. He most assuredly would have had better chances against Trump but when the biggest difference between Clinton and Sanders is also a significant portion of where Trump's votes came from it's more iffy. Since a lot of those people are uneducated they'd be likely to consider Sanders' policies more unrealistic than Trump's, though it could easily have gone either way still. (Also I do remember that hiccup, I just think that in comparison to the constant stupidity both other candidates spewed it's quite forgivable.)[/QUOTE] Sanders and Trump both had blue collar worker/anti-establishment appeal. I have several family members who are otherwise very heavily conservative that would have voted for Bernie over Donald, but wanted to vote for Donald over Hillary. This isn't on Bernie. This is on Hillary, the DNC, and D.W.S.

[QUOTE=Alice3173;51355857]After taking some time to think it through I'm not actually certain whether Sanders would have actually won or not. He most assuredly would have had better chances against Trump but when the biggest difference between Clinton and Sanders is also a significant portion of where Trump's votes came from it's more iffy. Since a lot of those people are uneducated they'd be likely to consider Sanders' policies more unrealistic than Trump's, though it could easily have gone either way still. (Also I do remember that hiccup, I just think that in comparison to the constant stupidity both other candidates spewed it's quite forgivable.)[/QUOTE] Sanders would've at least engaged the voters that certainly voted for Trump on the platform of Protectionism and American Industry. When we look at election night, although certain key states "flipped," the American Rust Belt, which due to it's relation to Unions was a reliably Democratic voting bloc, flipped entirely and without expectation. All likely due to the fact that Trump had said to that voter base, "I will bring factories to you," while no other candidate in the entire election said [I]anything[/I] to them, apart from Bernie. That's one thing that a lot of Pro-Hillary/Anti-Sanders commentators (and Facepunchers) tried to sling against Sanders, that he was promoting protectionism and fighting against Globalization, and would therefor alienate important special interests. Or that trying to engage that vote was a waste, because that entire ideal is dead. It turns out, that voter base actually mattered, even if there's no practical or simple way to get them what they want.

[QUOTE=BlindSniper17;51355960]Sanders and Trump both had blue collar worker/anti-establishment appeal. I have several family members who are otherwise very heavily conservative that would have voted for Bernie over Donald, but wanted to vote for Donald over Hillary. This isn't on Bernie. This is on Hillary, the DNC, and D.W.S.[/QUOTE] Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming Sanders in the least. I'm just saying that people who are claiming he could have beaten Trump might be overestimating his appeal to voters is all. [QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;51355996]Sanders would've at least engaged the voters that certainly voted for Trump on the platform of Protectionism and American Industry. When we look at election night, although certain key states "flipped," the American Rust Belt, which due to it's relation to Unions was a reliably Democratic voting bloc, flipped entirely and without expectation. All likely due to the fact that Trump had said to that voter base, "I will bring factories to you," while no other candidate in the entire election said [I]anything[/I] to them, apart from Bernie. That's one thing that a lot of Pro-Hillary/Anti-Sanders commentators (and Facepunchers) tried to sling against Sanders, that he was promoting protectionism and fighting against Globalization, and would therefor alienate important special interests. Or that trying to engage that vote was a waste, because that entire ideal is dead. It turns out, that voter base actually mattered, even if there's no practical or simple way to get them what they want.[/QUOTE] Yep, I agree completely there. I just think that people who are saying Sanders would've easily beaten Trump are overestimating exactly how much better he might have done when quite a bit of people do consider many of his policies to be unrealistic.

I'm reminded of the saying "Don't attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity" But the DNC is both stupid and malicious.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51356178]I'm reminded of the saying "Don't attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity" But the DNC is both stupid and malicious.[/QUOTE] Amen! ...and, don't forget to add egotistical and entitled to that list as well.

[QUOTE=BlindSniper17;51355022]Don't forget that the Clintons felt so entitled to the presidency, they felt comfortable breaking various rules and/or lying because Hillary's only competition was Trump. [B][URL="http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-03-10/did-hillary-clinton-break-the-democratic-presidential-debate-rules"]Did Hillary Clinton Cheat During the Democratic Debate?[/URL][/B] [media]https://twitter.com/edhenry/status/707788419703951360[/media][/QUOTE] God, Hillary Clinton had so many fuckups that I've actually forgotten about most of them. This was classic.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51350996]Don't get it twisted; I still think Trump is bad for America and I have absolutely no optimism that Trump will do anything to stop the political elite. I just went from hating one to hating both. It's fucking infuriating watching Clinton's terrible campaign drag down Democrats downticket then read a story that was posted in [B]May [/B]that I somehow never saw describing Clinton and the DNC essentially taking money from state parties and using it to campaign for Clinton [I]in the middle of the primary[/I] against Sanders. The silver lining to this election is that Hillary Clinton will never be in public office ever again.[/QUOTE] She'll most likely try to run in 2020 too, she's obsessed with getting the Oval Office. I dare say Bill Clinton was just a stepping stone for her to get into the political spotlight in a time where women had just started to exercise their newfound political power and rights.

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;51357326]She'll most likely try to run in 2020 too, she's obsessed with getting the Oval Office. I dare say Bill Clinton was just a stepping stone for her to get into the political spotlight in a time where women had just started to exercise their newfound political power and rights.[/QUOTE] Even if she tried do you really think people would vote to nominate her yet again after all of this? Would her donors repeat such a bad investment?

No way. She's done, probably forever. She wasn't likable before, and this election dragged her straight through the mud. The DNC is dumb as a bag of rocks but even if they stay dead-set on an establishment candidate they'll find someone else who can embody the same ideals.

If she does she'd throw away everything positive she's done the past 40 years and people would only remember her for running two shit campaigns, the second being when it was obvious nobody wanted her. She had EVERYTHING in her favor this election and she still lost due to her own fuckups, hubris and incompetence.