Windows 8 hate bandwagon gets a new member: Serious Sam dev hops on board - Polidicks

[QUOTE=fowll;38342478]Not comparable at all. Beside MS is clearly pushing metro and advising developer to develop or it, while the desktop is marked legacy feature. MS can clearly not just dump the desktop but it does sounds like they want to make a smooth transaction and evantually stop focusing on the desktop.[/QUOTE] Well how do you expect Microsoft to integrate Metro into desktop then? I can only think of two solutions, and they're both terrible: 1. Make Metro apps windowed - which means that Windows 8 still fails to enter the tablet market 2. Make Desktop apps behave like Metro apps - which means that the desktop dies and millions of apps are broken. I know it seems like Desktop mode is going away, but that's really not the case - Microsoft is just focusing on pushing Metro with this version of Windows.

Or how about option 3. Return start menu and make metro optional.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;38343423]Or how about option 3. Return start menu and make metro optional.[/QUOTE] Start Menu is still here (although it's redesigned), and Metro is optional - you don't have to use the apps. And that's pretty much solution 1.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;38343423]Or how about option 3. Return start menu and make metro optional.[/QUOTE] 1995 version: "How about remove the start menu and go back to DOS! The command line was perfectly fine!"

or just remove metro from the x86 version of the OS? why have the mobile part in the desktop version?

[QUOTE=fowll;38343926]or just remove metro from the x86 version of the OS? why have the mobile part in the desktop version?[/QUOTE] because it works perfectly fine on the desktop too? or are you one of those manchildren who complain when it doesn't work how you want it to after playing with it for 5 minutes?

[QUOTE=Protocol7;38343972]because it works perfectly fine on the desktop too? or are you one of those manchildren who complain when it doesn't work how you want it to after playing with it for 5 minutes?[/QUOTE] Nope not one of those, I dont mind that things needs some thinkering to work but, i like to have the freedom of choice, would not be that much work to put in a extra check box in some setting. it would not make it a worse experiance for people who like metro , but could give people who dislike it a choice.

By the way, even though people are saying you -have- to get your metro apps through the windows store I'm 100% sure that's not true. If there was no way to run a metro app on your computer without getting it from the store, how would people test their app before releasing it? I'm sure you can run them somehow, even if you need to download VS2012 Express and compile it yourself.

[QUOTE=Amiga OS;38344267]Whats 'choise'?[/QUOTE] 1. choise to be choise a person or thing must be excellant, very good, or great in any field of endeavour. That run was very choise. (from urban dictionary) since you asked... [editline]6th November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Elspin;38344581]By the way, even though people are saying you -have- to get your metro apps through the windows store I'm 100% sure that's not true. If there was no way to run a metro app on your computer without getting it from the store, how would people test their app before releasing it? I'm sure you can run them somehow, even if you need to download VS2012 Express and compile it yourself.[/QUOTE] in the enterprice version of windows you re allowed to side loade your own programs. at least that is the only way as far as i know... not 100% sure so if anyone else has info...

[QUOTE=st0rmforce;38339596]How long will that last though? The desktop is there because there are hardly any apps for the new interface yet. If they get enough third-party developers on-board over then next few years, why would they need to support the old desktop in the next version? It could never happen, but it all depends on how the market behaves and what other people do. If it becomes profitable for them to become a closed system, then they will do it if they can. The store has the potential to become a way of controlling the software they allow on their PCs. I need more tinfoil!!!![/QUOTE] dude I fucking went over this last page read my shit goddammit they use javascript and html along with a limited Win32 for the sole purpose of comptability with ARM devices and stuff. They are basically webapps for a different purpose than traditional Win32 applications. MS has stated multiple times Win32 is not legacy and that the desktop is not "ever going anywhere". Be happy with Metro apps, you can now run smartphones apps on your desktop if you want, can't run iOS apps on a Mac. Checkmate Apple, etc

[QUOTE=The Baconator;38344822]dude I fucking went over this last page read my shit goddammit they use javascript and html along with a limited Win32 for the sole purpose of comptability with ARM devices and stuff. They are basically webapps for a different purpose than traditional Win32 applications. MS has stated multiple times Win32 is not legacy and that the desktop is not "ever going anywhere". Be happy with Metro apps, you can now run smartphones apps on your desktop if you want, can't run iOS apps on a Mac. Checkmate Apple, etc[/QUOTE] I can play Rocket Riot 3D on my Tablet then pick it up on my desktop right where I left off. It's neat, really.

it's also impossible for a Metro app to be better than Win32 apps, because MS hardcoded limitations on how much performance, 3D hardware utilization, and used fucking html and javascript for the [I]sole purpose[/I] of being able to run on something as limited as a Windows phone or as powerful as a hexcore i7 desktop. Metro on the desktop also means you can natively run and test your own smartphone apps on the same PC you fucking developed it for, that is a powerful tool for developers.

I still don't get it why proper desktop programs aren't allowed to use the new Windows Runtime. It proofs (or at least heavily hints at it) that Microsoft is abandoning the desktop and focusing on the touch interface.

[QUOTE=The Baconator;38344822]dude I fucking went over this last page read my shit goddammit they use javascript and html along with a limited Win32 for the sole purpose of comptability with ARM devices and stuff. They are basically webapps for a different purpose than traditional Win32 applications. MS has stated multiple times Win32 is not legacy and that the desktop is not "ever going anywhere". Be happy with Metro apps, you can now run smartphones apps on your desktop if you want, can't run iOS apps on a Mac. Checkmate Apple, etc[/QUOTE] ok, that would make more sense. so hard core games and other computational intensive apps are pretty much excluded from metro than. but i still dont like the lock down of metro apps tho, if that is the case.

[QUOTE=Robber;38345197]I still don't get it why proper desktop programs aren't allowed to use the new Windows Runtime. It proofs (or at least heavily hints at it) that Microsoft is abandoning the desktop and focusing on the touch interface.[/QUOTE] It doesn't prove anything. Microsoft wants their OS widely available and they had to make some compromises to make it happen.

[QUOTE=The Baconator;38344969]it's also impossible for a Metro app to be better than Win32 apps, because MS hardcoded limitations on how much performance, 3D hardware utilization, and used fucking html and javascript for the [I]sole purpose[/I] of being able to run on something as limited as a Windows phone or as powerful as a hexcore i7 desktop. [B]Metro on the desktop also means you can natively run and test your own smartphone apps on the same PC you fucking developed it for, that is a powerful tool for developers.[/B][/QUOTE] Do you know if people can develop apps for metro on a consumer pc? Because as i understand it, only enterprise version lets you sign your own apps to side loade them... but that sound like an awful way of doing it so hopefully i am wrong. [editline]6th November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Protocol7;38345271]It doesn't prove anything. Microsoft wants their OS widely available and they had to make some compromises to make it happen.[/QUOTE] how does restricting the use of the new windows runtime on the desktop make their OS more widely available? they could easily have made it available on metro and the desktop...

[QUOTE=Protocol7;38343661]1995 version: "How about remove the start menu and go back to DOS! The command line was perfectly fine!"[/QUOTE] Actually, the main opinion in 1995 was that Microsoft should bring back the Program Manager from 3.1. But your point still stands.

[QUOTE=fowll;38345302]how does restricting the use of the new windows runtime on the desktop make their OS more widely available? they could easily have made it available on metro and the desktop...[/QUOTE] WinRT is how Microsoft regulates Metro apps at a developer level. There's still your standard .NET development for desktop apps which is pretty damn powerful, and WPF is nice to make applications with.

[QUOTE=Robber;38345197]I still don't get it why proper desktop programs aren't allowed to use the new Windows Runtime. It proofs (or at least heavily hints at it) that Microsoft is abandoning the desktop and focusing on the touch interface.[/QUOTE] you truly believe fullscreen-only javascript and html applications with a touch of Win32 are gonna replace traditional desktop Win32 applications? Are you hearing yourself talk here?! (or I guess reading what you are typing)

[QUOTE=Amiga OS;38345501]Nope, you just need a visual basic license as far as I know.[/QUOTE] make sense, but still kind of sucks to have to buy it. t would probably limit hobbyists some. unless there is a free license.

[QUOTE=fowll;38345591]make sense, but still kind of sucks to have to buy it. t would probably limit hobbyists some. unless there is a free license.[/QUOTE] IIRC you only really need to pay for the developer's license to release. Development using VS2012 Express still lets you sideload in your own apps.

[QUOTE=Protocol7;38345504]WinRT is how Microsoft regulates Metro apps at a developer level. There's still your standard .NET development for desktop apps which is pretty damn powerful, and WPF is nice to make applications with.[/QUOTE] i see i kind of misunderstod, didnt realise the new win runtime was to make metro apps. i tought it was something not specific to metro. [editline]6th November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Protocol7;38345661]IIRC you only really need to pay for the developer's license to release. Development using VS2012 Express still lets you sideload in your own apps.[/QUOTE] ok, still just slightly better. depending on the price it might still be hard on indie or hobbyists developers.

[IMG]http://www.technize.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Windows-Classic-theme-for-Windows-8-RTM.jpg[/IMG] windows classic 4 lyfe [B]edit:[/B] well i like the simple look

That is fucking hideous. Jesus Christ.

I would actually kinda like it, if the background of everything wasn't grey.

[QUOTE=fowll;38344242]Nope not one of those, I dont mind that things needs some thinkering to work but, i like to have the freedom of choice, would not be that much work to put in a extra check box in some setting. it would not make it a worse experiance for people who like metro , but could give people who dislike it a choice.[/QUOTE] Because it would be contrary to their one platform efforts. If you hate it so much just install an alternate shell or something. This isn't about a choice, this is about business really. They're essentially trying to hedge themselves on low power device and easy nonpro use. [QUOTE=fowll;38345677]i see i kind of misunderstod, didnt realise the new win runtime was to make metro apps. i tought it was something not specific to metro. [editline]6th November 2012[/editline] ok, still just slightly better. depending on the price it might still be hard on indie or hobbyists developers.[/QUOTE] The pricing is probably similar to winphone pricing. Which means the moment get your developer license you probably actually get a few free submissions anyway. The only area where they do serious massively expensive certing is the xbox, but even there XBLA primary certing is actually still accessible to indie devs.

[QUOTE=omggrass;38337068]neither does windows 8... MISINFORMATION EREWHERE! [img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5661506/windows8.png[/img][/QUOTE] How?

[QUOTE=assassin_Raptor;38357436]How?[/QUOTE] How what? How did he get Minecraft running? By running the .exe just like in every other version of Windows. How did he get that start menu? I think that's either Start8 or ViStart, or one of the other numerous third-party start menu mods.

[QUOTE=ShaunOfTheLive;38362369]How what? How did he get Minecraft running? By running the .exe just like in every other version of Windows. How did he get that start menu? I think that's either Start8 or ViStart, or one of the other numerous third-party start menu mods.[/QUOTE] It really makes me wonder how many people actually believe that Microsoft only allows you to install Store apps in the x86 version of Windows 8. Its still normal Windows, just that the Start menu contains app functionality that happens to have a Microsoft Store app in it.

[QUOTE=Demache;38364789]It really makes me wonder how many people actually believe that Microsoft only allows you to install Store apps in the x86 version of Windows 8. Its still normal Windows, just that the Start menu contains app functionality that happens to have a Microsoft Store app in it.[/QUOTE] and woah!!!! the store is completely optional!!!! they've [I]really[/I] got us by the balls