Windows 8 hate bandwagon gets a new member: Serious Sam dev hops on board - Polidicks

Honestly the Windows store as it stands now is more optional than Steam - you're kinda expected to release your game on steam, and look at the amount of people saying "I'll only buy it if it's on Steam". It's not mandatory in anyway, but all you guys like it because it's quite convenient. And what's not to like? It [I]is[/I] convenient. And why exactly is it bad when Microsoft does an app store? Is it because it's on their own OS? Would it be okay if they released "Microsoft App store" on Mac OSX and not Windows? It's just another app store, right now it's precisely the same as Steam, Origin, Mac App store, iOS app store, Android Market place and WP Marketplace, and there's no reason why it should suddenly be mandatory. Besides, Microsoft would sued it's ass off with the biggest anti-trust lawsuit ever.

[QUOTE=Protocol7;38365433]and woah!!!! the store is completely optional!!!! they've [I]really[/I] got us by the balls[/QUOTE] GREAT SCOT! You mean the desktop is still there? This means nothing bad is ever going to happen!

[QUOTE=The Baconator;38338053]Well there's nothing to worry about the Metro apps being closed they use fucking javascript and HTML code in conjunction with a gimped version of Win32 to achieve compatibility across Windows PC's, Windows tablets (ARM and x86) and Windows Phones. They are limited in how complex they can be [I]by nature[/I] Think how Java hasn't replaced C/C++ even though Java is cross-platform, it's because Java is also slower than C/C++[/QUOTE] You'd be surprized with how far javascript and html5 have come. Its not on par with c# and c++ for games. Modern apps can be created with c#, c++, VB and XAML as well tho. It's also complete bullshit what the devs are saying. You can use steam normally and games can be pinned to the start screen just as easy as store apps. You don't get some functionally with non-store apps such as live tiles however. But that wasn't available in previous versions of windows anyway. The windows store contains apps that you would use on a tablet or phone. And is the only way to get apps on windows RT (the tablet version). You don't want to play a game like skyrim on your tablet anyway. You get angry birds, fruit ninja and cut the rope. And the last thing I would want is developers such as Valve making those kind of games.

[QUOTE=st0rmforce;38367475]GREAT SCOT! You mean the desktop is still there? This means nothing bad is ever going to happen![/QUOTE] i mean anyone who develops code for a living knows that microsoft is never going to alienate their developers perhaps one day we will see a version of windows without the desktop for average people, but there's no evidence one way or another to support that

[QUOTE=Demache;38364789]It really makes me wonder how many people actually believe that Microsoft only allows you to install Store apps in the x86 version of Windows 8. Its still normal Windows, just that the Start menu contains app functionality that happens to have a Microsoft Store app in it.[/QUOTE] They're still attempting to move away from that. Microsoft loves their XBox model of sales. They sell both the hardware AND software on consoles and phones. Now they want to sell the OS and software on PCs. The point is, they're moving AWAY from a more open platform. Casual users will use the app store on Win8 exclusively simply because it's already there and it's being made to be as simple and dumbed down as possible. Microsoft isn't even thinking of trying to target the advanced user here. They, and most every major software company (ESPECIALLY Apple), have already realized that the casual user is where the most money is.

[QUOTE=Protocol7;38369627]i mean anyone who develops code for a living knows that microsoft is never going to alienate their developers perhaps one day we will see a version of windows without the desktop for average people, but there's no evidence one way or another to support that[/QUOTE] Can I just say, as somebody who writes code for a living, that if a big company finds a nice easy way to make more money, but has to shit on a few little guys to do it, they will do it 10 times out of 10. People keep mentioning anti-trust lawsuits, but I think they could steer clear of any legal problems and still make a closed system. I haven't studied law, so take this with a pinch of salt if you like. The way I understand competition laws, I'm pretty sure they could bring in a system where all the software that's loaded onto a Windows machine has to be bought through them. So long as they can prove that every decision is based on a policy and that they don't favour their own software, or stifle competitors, they're pretty much free to do what they want in that regard. I don't think it's going to happen any time soon, it may never happen, but I think it's stupid to ignore it and just assume everything will just stay the same. They would lose much more than they would gain at the moment, but things can change surprisingly quickly. It depends on the direction they go with the Windows Store and the XBox Next.

[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;38370596]They're still attempting to move away from that. Microsoft loves their XBox model of sales. They sell both the hardware AND software on consoles and phones. Now they want to sell the OS and software on PCs. The point is, they're moving AWAY from a more open platform. Casual users will use the app store on Win8 exclusively simply because it's already there and it's being made to be as simple and dumbed down as possible. Microsoft isn't even thinking of trying to target the advanced user here. They, and most every major software company (ESPECIALLY Apple), have already realized that the casual user is where the most money is.[/QUOTE] The money has always been with the casual users, it's not something that just dawned on the companies. And casual users (at least desktop and laptop (non-hybrid at least) users) won't get all their apps through the store, simply because the apps are really tailored more towards touch. What they may do, though, is search for apps in the store, then follow the link they find their to the developers site. It's described in this blog: [url]http://blogs.msdn.com/b/windowsstore/archive/2012/06/08/listing-your-desktop-app-in-the-store.aspx[/url] In this case, all non-harmful applications (that live up to some kind of standards) can be added (or rather listed in) to the store, but you'll always just be supplied with a download link on the developers page. This means that casual users will be able to discover useful applications, while being sure that they won't get virusses or the like. At the same time, they won't be tied into Microsoft system in any way, as Microsoft has nothing to do with the agreement between the user and the developer. Think of it as a google search for maybe "free movie editor" that only presents actual software, and only software that lives up to a certain standard. Is this not a way to provide better content to the average user, without in any way limiting what they can do on their computer? [editline]8th November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=st0rmforce;38370918]Can I just say, as somebody who writes code for a living, that if a big company finds a nice easy way to make more money, but has to shit on a few little guys to do it, they will do it 10 times out of 10. People keep mentioning anti-trust lawsuits, but I think they could steer clear of any legal problems and still make a closed system. I haven't studied law, so take this with a pinch of salt if you like. The way I understand competition laws, I'm pretty sure they could bring in a system where all the software that's loaded onto a Windows machine has to be bought through them. So long as they can prove that every decision is based on a policy and that they don't favour their own software, or stifle competitors, they're pretty much free to do what they want in that regard. I don't think it's going to happen any time soon, it may never happen, but I think it's stupid to ignore it and just assume everything will just stay the same. They would lose much more than they would gain at the moment, but things can change surprisingly quickly. It depends on the direction they go with the Windows Store and the XBox Next.[/QUOTE] For Microsoft to steer clear of such would be a miracle. This is the tolerance the EU has when it comes to Microsoft: [url]http://gigaom.com/europe/microsoft-faces-7bn-fine-for-violating-eu-deal/[/url] I mentioned earlier that they were being sued for $750 because of IE. I'm sorry that I was wrong, it was $7bn. My point is that they would get fucked up the ass. Microsoft still has what would be defined as an OS monopoly, and that means that the EU will get pissed of the slightest hint of them taking advantage of it. They're getting sued for bundling their software with the machine, and not providing a clear choice of the competitors software at first start-up. For $7bn. Think what would happen if they pretty much said "we decide what you can run on our OS", it would be completely fucked up.

Like I said though, Microsoft might release a version of Windows like how RT functions for more end-users but they know that they make some of the best development tools available. They're not going to alienate their corporate market. They might separate the consumer and corporate markets at the OS level but they will never ignore the corporate market. They simply can't afford to.

[QUOTE=st0rmforce;38370918]Can I just say, as somebody who writes code for a living, that if a big company finds a nice easy way to make more money, but has to shit on a few little guys to do it, they will do it 10 times out of 10. People keep mentioning anti-trust lawsuits, but I think they could steer clear of any legal problems and still make a closed system. I haven't studied law, so take this with a pinch of salt if you like. The way I understand competition laws, I'm pretty sure they could bring in a system where all the software that's loaded onto a Windows machine has to be bought through them. So long as they can prove that every decision is based on a policy and that they don't favour their own software, or stifle competitors, they're pretty much free to do what they want in that regard. I don't think it's going to happen any time soon, it may never happen, but I think it's stupid to ignore it and just assume everything will just stay the same. They would lose much more than they would gain at the moment, but things can change surprisingly quickly. It depends on the direction they go with the Windows Store and the XBox Next.[/QUOTE] From memory a) the cases only apply to the x86 version of windows not Arm b) most of the cases generally already ran out - notice how MS essentially focused on tight integration only now. c) the cases where actually very specific and generally targeted closed products, not open platforms. d) the platform of the store is actually quite open, it's not a fully closed product, but merely an integrated one.

[QUOTE=Protocol7;38371309]Like I said though, Microsoft might release a version of Windows like how RT functions for more end-users but they know that they make some of the best development tools available. They're not going to alienate their corporate market. They might separate the consumer and corporate markets at the OS level but they will never ignore the corporate market. They simply can't afford to.[/QUOTE]....so I guess like how Windows 9x and NT were? I can't honestly imagine that Microsoft would make Windows become a closed platform on x86. Maybe something like a "starter edition" sort of thing, but not totally closed iOS style with no options. Like you mentioned, that would alienate corporate and power users.