WashPost Makes History: First Paper to Call for Prosecution of Its Own Source - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51071309]So the difference is that your country just isn't as capable. But they still sought that information. Had they the ability to do so they absolutely would, because its skull fucking retarded to do otherwise. Because even your allies have their own goals and motivations. I highly garuntee Germany, France, and other EU countries begged, borrowed, and stole every scrap of data they could from the UK leading up to the EU referendum because that is how intelligent countries continue to exist. Snowden isn't a hero. He revealed some things that were good to know, but he was malicious, not saintly.[/QUOTE] Can you actually prove he acted with malicious intent? That's more like what Manning did, exposing the names of US spies and putting their lives at risk. I say Snowden's a hero because he did very little harm beyond embarrassing the US and its allies on the interational stage, and a whole lot of good in informing the world as to what was going on.

[QUOTE=sgman91;51071297]I doubt it. Countries will go on spying on everyone they can. You seem to have more faith in governments than I do. As far as I'm concerned, they don't give a single crap about doing the "right" thing. If spying on allies provides useful information, then that's what they will do.[/QUOTE] The key question is whether it would be worth it; with the advent of the widespread adoption of encryption (circa 9th June 2013--i.e. since the Snowden revelations) in which every major internet service has tried to forcefully place its mouth upon the mantelpiece of providing encryption as a standard to its users. You can look at a service like WhatsApp as an example with a userbase of ~1 billion which only sought to introduce encryption from end-to-end as a standard on 18th November, 2014. Even though some may argue that client-to-server encryption isn't the best option (in the example of Google for instance) it still adds an additional layer of shit for governments to go through. It is arguable that the current encryption standards may not be the best at thwarting attackers, and there are many vulnerabilities that lay with the responsibility of the server or the end-user (not to mention anything in between) but I do not think there is any real argument to say that encryption does not counteract the mass surveillance that was witnessed pre-Snowden. You may also argue that Snowden isn't honest or wasn't central to the introduction of encryption as a standard, but I do not believe it is possible to argue that he wasn't a key factor in the introduction of encryption to a mass of services. Ideally we should all be installing Gentoo and singing the Richard Stallman free software song (video embedded below) most users will not, simply for the fact that it is easier to use a service that is easy. All it ends up doing is enables the mass of privacy conscious users to identify whichever services are not respectful of the end-users privacy. [video=youtube;9sJUDx7iEJwp]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sJUDx7iEJwp[/video]

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51071190]I care about the interests of my country, not yours.[/QUOTE] dangerous mindset

[QUOTE=archangel125;51071324]Can you actually prove he acted with malicious intent? That's more like what Manning did, exposing the names of US spies and putting their lives at risk. I say Snowden's a hero because he did very little harm beyond embarrassing the US and its allies on the interational stage, and a whole lot of good in informing the world as to what was going on.[/QUOTE]Releasing information entirely irrelevant to public interest that compromised legitimate espionage efforts internationally. Failure to use the tried and tested whistleblower protections provided in this very country for this express purpose, and instead fleeing to the largest geopolitical adversary the country, and much of the western world, has.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51071070]Snowden should be locked away in the darkest hole we have. He just took everything he could get his hands on, that's not a whistleblower, that's a traitor.[/QUOTE] Taking everything you can get your hands on is one thing, actually giving all that information away is different. You might be thinking of Chelsea Manning too, though even then she doesn't deserve prison.

[QUOTE=Riller;51071294]Are you posting this to prove that Manning's leaks were important? 'cause except for some piss-poor verbal discipline on display here and shit handling by ground crew, the video shows no real wrong decisions made by the helicopter crew. They saw group heading towards friendly positions, clearly identified weapons, and opened fire.[/QUOTE] Have you ever considered to look at the macrocosm of the war in Iraq?

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51071070]Snowden should be locked away in the darkest hole we have. He just took everything he could get his hands on, that's not a whistleblower, that's a traitor.[/QUOTE] Washington should be locked away in the darkest hole we have. He just got his army and took up arms against the empire. That's not a rebellion, that's a traitor.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51071070]Snowden should be locked away in the darkest hole we have. He just took everything he could get his hands on, that's not a whistleblower, that's a traitor.[/QUOTE] but he didnt... the CIA keeps saying that but they havent substantiated anything. Snowden himself went to great lengths to sort and carefully release the data he had as well as prevent it from falling into the hands of russia or china, now if he wanted to just fuck everybody he could have just dumped it all on wikileaks and called it a day. also the CIA and NSA havent seen any repraisals for purposfully misleading the congressional oversight committee for over a decade

[QUOTE=Sableye;51071402]but he didnt... the CIA keeps saying that but they havent substantiated anything. Snowden himself went to great lengths to sort and carefully release the data he had as well as prevent it from falling into the hands of russia or china, now if he wanted to just fuck everybody he could have just dumped it all on wikileaks and called it a day.[/QUOTE]The problem with Wikileaks is that no one would remember his name unless he turned himself in, and they might hold some of it back. He wasn't careful either, he released a stuff that had no legitimate public interest. [editline]18th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=L'Citizen;51071396]Washington should be locked away in the darkest hole we have. He just got his army and took up arms against the empire. That's not a rebellion, that's a traitor.[/QUOTE]Well, yeah. Sure, that's fine, what about it? Like, this dumb zing never works, why do people try it?

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51071414]The problem with Wikileaks is that no one would remember his name unless he turned himself in, and they might hold some of it back. He wasn't careful either, he released a stuff that had no legitimate public interest.[/QUOTE] what? wikileaks would have plastered his face everywhere, those guys have an agenda to discredit and destroy the US reputation. again people keep saying that he released stuff that had no public interest but even the washington post cant back up this claim, citing their own actual publication as evidence instead

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51071190]I care about the interests of my country, not yours.[/QUOTE] How scummy of a person can you be?

[QUOTE=Sableye;51071424]what? wikileaks would have plastered his face everywhere, those guys have an agenda to discredit and destroy the US reputation. again people keep saying that he released stuff that had no public interest but even the washington post cant back up this claim, citing their own actual publication as evidence instead[/QUOTE]They would have put their own faces everywhere. Snowden would have been obscured and made irrelevant unless he was arrested, at which point they'd have turned him in to a martyr. But before then, no one would know Snowden himself had any involvement, Wikileaks would make sure they got all the credit.

[QUOTE=Sableye;51071424]wikileaks would have plastered his face everywhere, those guys have an agenda to discredit and destroy the US reputation[/QUOTE] To be fair, Wikileaks, whatever you think of them, is credited with providing Snowden safe passage. [quote]Assange sent one of his most senior staff members, Sarah Harrison, to be at Snowden’s side in Hong Kong, and helped to engineer his escape to Russia – despite his discomfort with the idea of fleeing to one of the US’s most powerful enemies. “Snowden was well aware of the spin that would be put on it if he took asylum in Russia,” Assange told the Times. “He preferred Latin America, but my advice was that he should take asylum in Russia despite the negative PR consequences, because my assessment is that he had a significant risk he could be kidnapped from Latin America on CIA orders. Kidnapped or possibly killed.”[/quote] [url]https://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/aug/29/julian-assange-told-edward-snowdon-not-seek-asylum-in-latin-america[/url] This is not only mentioned in numerous news articles but also solidified in the very recent Snowden movie (of which Snowden apparently had at least some say because he features IRL in the movie and also met Oliver Stone like a half dozen times or some shit according to a lot of press which I can't find at this exact moment in time)

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51071070]Snowden should be locked away in the darkest hole we have. He just took everything he could get his hands on, that's not a whistleblower, that's a traitor.[/QUOTE] Nice bait. Like, holy shit I don't know how you got so many people to actually take this post seriously. You absolute madman.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51071070]Snowden should be locked away in the darkest hole we have. He just took everything he could get his hands on, that's not a whistleblower, that's a traitor.[/QUOTE] you say patraitor i say patriot

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51071458]Yes she does. She violated protocol, knowing full well the consequences of her actions. Just because you think you're a hero, doesn't mean you get any sort of magical reprieve from the consequences of your actions.[/QUOTE]You actually do if you go through the right procedures. As I've said, the U.S. has protections for whistleblowers. That is to say that if Snowden had followed said procedures could still be living happily in the U.S. without the risk of arrest and people would still know about the mass data surveillance.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51071479]I'm not sure if he's a traitor, but he definitely deserves the consequences of his actions.[/QUOTE] he deserves a fair trial, but the 1917 espionage act is just a sledgehammer that does not allow anything other than a guilty plea, it has never been challenged or revised but its completely illegal

[QUOTE=archangel125;51071241]Ever major militaristic, country, anyway. Russia, China, India, and the US.[/QUOTE] I agree with you in this thread (at least about the retarded first post) but archangel you're so anti-American it's actually amazing. Every country spies. Including Canada.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51071480]You actually do if you go through the right procedures. As I've said, the U.S. has protections for whistleblowers. That is to say that if Snowden had followed said procedures could still be living happily in the U.S. without the risk of arrest and people would still know about the mass data surveillance.[/QUOTE] [url]https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/22/how-pentagon-punished-nsa-whistleblowers[/url] You have taken part in at least one other thread where this was linked. The US has protections for whistleblowers but [I]they do not work[/I]. Snowden knew this. That's why he was forced to go the route he did. Anything else would have accomplished absolutely nothing other than destroying his career.

Snowden is a hero that should be pardoned. The NSA should be dissolved for its gross overreach and violation of the rights of citizens.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;51071667]I didn't say any of that. They didn't follow protocol, the law is cut and dry. They're guilty. End of story. Their motivations matter not. That being said, potential pardons could be made, based on the information revealed, and willingness to cooperate with investigative authorities on ending the offending programs.[/QUOTE] I get that under the law he should be punished but the law is written under the assumption that he had the choice to use the whistle-blower protections, and as it's patently clear that those don't actually work, he did what needed doing through the only way he could.

[QUOTE=Sanjuaro;51071437]How scummy of a person can you be?[/QUOTE] He lives in america, how is caring more about the country he is a resident of scummy? That particular post got several replies calling him out as horrible, but jfc of course he'd care more about the one he lives in.

[QUOTE=ghghop;51071957]He lives in america, how is caring more about the country he is a resident of scummy? That particular post got several replies calling him out as horrible, but jfc of course he'd care more about the one he lives in.[/QUOTE] so much so that it's okay to sacrifice the lives, well being or health of another nation? See, I don't really get that. I don't get the idea that "My country deserves my love more". We're literally all human beings. Should we not try and unite rather than repeatedly fight each other to the death for the will of individuals who will never sacrifice a thing themselves?

[QUOTE=Matthew0505;51072172]Selfishness is an explanation, not a justification.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51071970]so much so that it's okay to sacrifice the lives, well being or health of another nation? See, I don't really get that. I don't get the idea that "My country deserves my love more". We're literally all human beings. Should we not try and unite rather than repeatedly fight each other to the death for the will of individuals who will never sacrifice a thing themselves?[/QUOTE] Specifically he said that in response to someone saying it wasn't about American citizens when what Snowden did deliberately resulted in higher security risks for military personnel. I personally agree on the mindset that eventually we won't be separate countries, but I think where we are now you're a few decades if not a century too early for that suggestion. It's important to care more about the interests of your country of residence because you live there, your physical safety is being handled by them specifically. I highly doubt FinalHunter is saying fuck all the other countries at all, but more so that why worry more about foreign interests when he doesn't live or personally associate with those countries, the same goes for me and I'm sure millions of others. [editline]18th September 2016[/editline] Also I don't think either myself or anyone else calling Snowden a traitor is being selfish when the concern is for the country not just themselves.

Someone wrote an editorial in the Washington post which contradicts the paper's stance on something. Oh no, they're allowing dissenting views! If it was the other way around (Washington post hates Snowden, editorial writes in support of him), we'd be lauding them for journalistic integrity

[QUOTE=ghghop;51071957]He lives in america, how is caring more about the country he is a resident of scummy? That particular post got several replies calling him out as horrible, but jfc of course he'd care more about the one he lives in.[/QUOTE] "i care [I]more[/I] about my country's interests than yours" vs "i care about my country's interests, [I]not[/I] yours"

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51071359]dangerous mindset[/QUOTE] For you

[QUOTE=Sally;51072371]For you[/QUOTE] nah it's pretty dangerous for everyone

[QUOTE=Matthew0505;51072218][/QUOTE] I won't speak on FinalHunter's behalf on whether or not he gives any shit about other countries, but I guarantee you're being hyperbolic about it. When i said i doubt he is saying fuck all the other countries you know I meant in general, not in this specific instance. [editline]18th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51072336]"i care [I]more[/I] about my country's interests than yours" vs "i care about my country's interests, [I]not[/I] yours"[/QUOTE] I misread it and inserted my own belief, my bad.

[QUOTE=Sally;51072371]For you[/QUOTE] When you're so self interested you start being willing to have others die because of your actions, maybe you should start questioning what you're doing? Or are you so self interested you'd be okay with that scenario?