WashPost Makes History: First Paper to Call for Prosecution of Its Own Source - Polidicks

Snowden was very helpful for everyone, even if you are not from the US, he showed everyone that in fact, mass spying was a thing and people that said it was where not paranoid.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51072423]When you're so self interested you start being willing to have others die because of your actions, maybe you should start questioning what you're doing? Or are you so self interested you'd be okay with that scenario?[/QUOTE] Don't bother with predicting what I'm interested in because I will just tell you ,but it has nothing to do with calling for other peoples deaths you edgelord. My government can spy against your country, I don't care.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51072598]By "not yours," I meant "not Canada's or <insert country>" Not sure if that is being understood. I get called a jingoist in every debate of the sort I have, and I don't mind being called a jingoist. I generally support every military action taken by the United States, because of personal circumstances I don't feel obligated to talk about on a public forum. Regardless, nearly all of my friends are in the military and other friends of mine are employed by the CIA and other organizations. Perhaps that fact alone will illustrate why I vehemently dislike everything Snowden has done. I support the constitution, not unconstitutional invasions of privacy by my government or any other government on it's people. I appreciate the fact that Edward Snowden made this information available to the public, however, other actions he has taken have damaged our ability to perform intelligence operations against both allies and enemy countries and damaged our national security. Some may interpret my enthusiasm as blind faith, but I have a greater faith in the organizations that conduct operations in counterterorrism efforts than you do. I once worked with an individual who instructed me in basics of IEDs and reconstructs them for training purposes for the FBI and similar organizations. You have no grasp on the number of attacks that are snuffed out with the assistance of superior intelligence that you will never hear about. The business of espionage is fucking nasty. We spy on allies and we spy on some of the nastiest groups and governments on the face of the planet. There are American spies spending the rest of their lives in foreign prisons for espionage, while the CIA disavows all knowledge of them, because they have to. Meanwhile people herald Snowden as a hero as he jeopardizes US intelligence operations and informs our adversaries of our efforts against them, all while enjoying his asylum in Russia. I want my country to remain a superpower both militarily and in all other regards. I will gladly support all efforts that lead to the defense of our people, our military forces, our overseas interests, our economic interests, etc. It is strange to me that few others share the same feelings. Every country acts almost solely in self-interest, if they didn't they would severely disadvantaged and their population would suffer as a result. Just because Snowden did one beneficial thing for the world doesn't mean he should be exonerated for all of his actions that weren't beneficial. He worked for the NSA, he had a greater obligation to the US than that of an ordinary citizen.[/QUOTE] So you support the fact the NSA passes nude photos they scrape off the their mass data collection for laughs? I don't assume you do, but you support these large organizations. They're made up of people, and I'm quite certain, they're just as fallible as any other human. Superior information gathering is great, there's something wrong about unsupervised mass data collection on a terrifying scale. What's strange to me is that the lives of other human beings just aren't worth much to you because of petty geographical distinctions, if you support "nearly any" military action by the US, then yeah I kind of find a problem with that. I support the troops because they're people but I don't really see the point in quite a few of the wars, and you can call me naive or ignorant but that's simply not the case. I just laugh that because I was born about 12 miles above your country, my life is worth less to you, my interests are basically the same as yours, have a country safe from horrible events and to not have to worry about terrorists from across the world doing harm to me. I do not believe overly interventionist policy that stands to gain more for a select few than it does for the soldiers dying for the cause is good for anyone. I don't believe it creates stability, which we both want, I don't believe it helps either of us. Whistleblower protections are basically non existant and anyone with serious info is not going to be able to leak it. He wouldn't really be able to stay in any other country besides Russia or China and even that's very unlikely. Of course he's more comprimised now than he was at the start of all of this but that's not entirely on him. Yeah, I will call your faith in the establishment blind, because for the most part it does seem to be. You have your biased perspective, I have my biased perspective. [editline]18th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Sally;51072684]Don't bother with predicting what I'm interested in because I will just tell you ,but it has nothing to do with calling for other peoples deaths you edgelord. My government can spy against your country, I don't care.[/QUOTE] and what would you suggest your country do to mine if we were caught spying on you Military actions result in deaths, don't call me an edgelord for calling out a basic fact of warfare, that'd be great

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51072695]Military actions result in deaths, don't call me an edgelord for calling out a basic fact of warfare, that'd be great[/QUOTE] you were being an edgelord by saying I am going to take actions that cause peoples deaths. I wont be in that position any time in my life.

[QUOTE=Sally;51072701]you were being an edgelord by saying I am going to take actions that cause peoples deaths. I wont be in that position any time in my life.[/QUOTE] No I'm not saying you personally That is you as in as a nation, you are sanctioning certain actions

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51071970]so much so that it's okay to sacrifice the lives, well being or health of another nation? See, I don't really get that. I don't get the idea that "My country deserves my love more". We're literally all human beings. Should we not try and unite rather than repeatedly fight each other to the death for the will of individuals who will never sacrifice a thing themselves?[/QUOTE] Tell that to the Pakistani India Border. Or the conflict between Sunni and Shiite that's been around since the original founding. Groups fight for dominance, a nation is just another group. We might be able to unite but eventually that will collapse as well.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51071190]I care about the interests of my country, not yours.[/QUOTE] As an American born citizen: Please leave at your earliest convenience, lest you bring disgrace upon my country again. You cannot hold such extreme disregard for yourself, your citizens at home, and your allies and consider yourself a world power. Even Sean Hannity had enough brain cells in his head to figure that out.

You think governments are fucking you up the ass today? Reflect back on this situation in twenty years or so. People will consider the 00's/10's the good years. In twenty years, the US government will be Disney, Walmart and Google. The president will be Bush Jr Jr Jr. You'll pay a privilege tax, and everything you do will be documented. If you have an unpopular political opinion, you will be publicly shamed on the internet about your porn browsing habits. Screencap this, print it out, and save it in a box for twenty years. I bet I got at least three out of five right.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51071160][URL="http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1259508/edward-snowden-us-government-has-been-hacking-hong-kong-and-china?page=all"]Source[/URL] [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/17/world/americas/snowden-nsa-brazil-letter/"]Snowden's open letter offers to help Brazil investigate NSA surveillance[/URL] [URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/documents-reveal-nsas-extensive-involvement-in-targeted-killing-program/2013/10/16/29775278-3674-11e3-8a0e-4e2cf80831fc_print.html"]Documents reveal NSA’s extensive involvement in targeted killing program[/URL] [URL="http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2014/03/05/the-secret-role-of-the-dutch-in-the-american-war-on-terror-a1426677"]The secret role of the Dutch in the American war on terror[/URL] Believe whatever you want, but I don't think that any of these things have the slightest to do with the NSA collecting information on American citizens. In fact, it sounds to me like a breach of our national security. Why should Snowden announce that we are actively hacking Hong Kong and China? Why should he release documents detailing programs that gather intelligence to fight al-Qaeda? Oh because he's a hero haha of course. Believe whatever the hell you want but don't patronize me for having a different opinion. In some way Snowden has jeopardized our national security, regardless of how large or small, and that's a fact. You can call him a whistleblower and a hero, I'll call him a traitor.[/QUOTE] Literally all you have said can be summed up as "haha this guy basically exposed everything every other intelligence agency already knew, what a fucking traitor." Please, renounce your citizenship and live in mainland China.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51071190]I care about the interests of my country, not yours. Yeah, and if that's all he did then maybe I would agree with the sentiment that he's a hero.[/QUOTE] Holy shit dude, stop posting.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51071190]I care about the interests of my country, not yours.[/QUOTE] Fuck the interests of your country tbh

i like how nobodys talking about washington post and is just arguing with a troll Washington post being cancerous as always trying to milk in that headline rev

Thinking that something is ok if your country does it is the same as thinking it's ok if someone from your family does it. Would you really defend your brother if he sold computers to people and installed spyware on them so that he could watch them through the webcam? I don't think so.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51071070]Snowden should be locked away in the darkest hole we have. He just took everything he could get his hands on, that's not a whistleblower, that's a traitor.[/QUOTE] Thanks for reminding how cancerous nationalism is.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51071190]I care about the interests of my country, not yours.[/QUOTE] Apparently not, if you think the only man with enough balls to expose some of our government's darkest secrets is a traitor.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51072598] He worked for the NSA, he had a greater obligation to the US than that of an ordinary citizen.[/QUOTE] Yes, which is why I'm glad he fulfilled that obligation and exposed the heinous overreach by the NSA. The US deserves to have its intelligence operations compromised, if it's going to be violating the privacy of its citizens on such in such a broad and reckless manner.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51071480]You actually do if you go through the right procedures. As I've said, the U.S. has protections for whistleblowers. That is to say that if Snowden had followed said procedures could still be living happily in the U.S. without the risk of arrest and people would still know about the mass data surveillance.[/QUOTE] You're delusional if you believe he would have been treated fairly.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51071131]How fucking uninformed can you fucking be[/QUOTE] I dont know, you tell me. Regardless of the effects of his leaks, he has made it clear in interviews where he balked and changed the subject upon being asked whether or not he'd read the information he released before releasing it, that he had no idea what he was leaking. That's not heroism and it shouldn't be encouraged. You don't get a pardon for going out and randomly shooting someone just because the person you shot was a bigger criminal than you. His biggest interest was the attention and fame he'd get, any actual positive effects that resulted from his actions were just a side bonus.

[QUOTE=Seerus;51077699]I dont know, you tell me. Regardless of the effects of his leaks, he has made it clear in interviews where he balked and changed the subject upon being asked whether or not he'd read the information he released before releasing it, that he had no idea what he was leaking. That's not heroism and it shouldn't be encouraged. You don't get a pardon for going out and randomly shooting someone just because the person you shot was a bigger criminal than you. His biggest interest was the attention and fame he'd get, any actual positive effects that resulted from his actions were just a side bonus.[/QUOTE] That's is definitely not how I would describe the situation

Funny how nobody attacking FinalHunter on the front page addressed the clear evidence he posted that Snowden didn't just leak NSA spying programs. It's been known literally since the start of the scandal back in 2013 that he grabbed everything he could ([url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/snowden-still-holding-keys-to-the-kingdom/2013/12/18/b91d29a2-6761-11e3-8b5b-a77187b716a3_story.html]nearly two million files[/url]) before leaving the country and had no time to vet what he released, and trusted editors at The Guardian not to reveal anything that could harm the US. And they didn't succeed at that- about a month after Snowden fled to Russia, Al-Qaeda affiliates [url=http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/al-qaeda-changing-its-communication-methods-after-leaks.aspx?pageID=238&nid=49579]changed communication methods[/url] because the surveillance program against them was revealed in the leaks. Whether Snowden's actions were justified or not, I'm on the fence, but you all are engaging in some serious historical revisionism by claiming he only released information relevant to the NSA spying. He did, in fact, take everything he could get, and among a treasure trove of irrelevant US national security information happened to be a substantial amount of evidence for NSA overreach. If you think the good outweighs the bad then accept the facts as they happened and make your case, but don't try to paint him as an unambiguous hero by outright lying about his actions.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51078988]Because they aren't interested in having a legitimate debate. They'd rather reinforce their own viewpoints by hiding inside the crowd taking potshots and making zingers at my beliefs. The NSA probably has never collected any information on anyone in this thread, yet they want to try and talk about how NSA employees are "jerking off to people's webcams" like that's all the organization does. They'd rather share their anti-American sentiments and ignore the fact that at a point you have a trade-off between freedom and security. Personally I think we have a good mix of both right now, but I really don't appreciate the fact that al-Qaeda operatives that would probably be dead by now are still running around because of the damage Snowden's leaks caused. One more guy spreading a radicalized ideology, killing people, and blowing up women's schools. But no, he's still a hero and his only motivation was his love for the American people and he went and ran to the asylum of Russia because he cared so much about our well-being under the evil overreach of the spooky NSA. Do you think Russia is harboring him out of the goodness of their hearts? Cause they thought it would be funny that they didn't have to extradite him? No, they have a vested interest in the information he has, whether or not he has given any of it to them.[/QUOTE] The US government is not American. American citizens are Americans; our government is at odds with us.

[QUOTE=geel9;51081689]The US government is not American. American citizens are Americans; our government is at odds with us.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure they're all American citizens, voted democratically for by American citizens, executing laws voted for in the institutions set up by the country's constitution.

Look, every country's gov is currently at some point, tapping into everyone's network. They are not gonna arrest you just because you told your friend Jim over the phone you want Domino's this friday, but that doesn't make them right You have to be pretty delusional if you think there are countries that are 100% clean and do zero spying on their own citizens. Otherwise, you won't be hearing about breaking news where they got intel on terrorists and manage to get them before they commit their acts of violence (sources are still possible, but with nearly all communications via networks these days its really hard)