Disgusting net event of the Month: Flash Game Makes Players Beat Up "Tropes vs. Women" Creator - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Loriborn;36679523]If you think that the only reason women like attractive and muscular men is because of the media, you're wrong.[/QUOTE] what a silly strawman argument i'd like you to find me some sources that depict the objectification of women as a part of human 'instinct'

[QUOTE=thisispain;36679516]what on earth are you saying[/quote] i'm calling out the fact that there's literally no way to empirically verify anything of what's being said, it's a question of values. you should at least acknowledge this fact explicitly instead of saying "X is Y" [quote]there's no experiment, it's opinion.[/QUOTE] quality science right here folks

[QUOTE=Bobie;36679538]what a silly strawman argument i'd like you to find me some sources that depict the objectification of women as a part of human 'instinct'[/QUOTE] I'm not arguing that women being objectified is instinct, I'm arguing that they objectify men the same way men objectify women because of instinct.

[QUOTE=gman_beeman;36679421]Found it [url]http://swfchan.org/1193/BeatUpAnitaSarkeesian.swf[/url][/QUOTE] Even not taking into account what it stands for, that's one of the shittiest games ever made.

[QUOTE=Loriborn;36679523]If you think that the only reason women like attractive and muscular men is because of the media, you're wrong.[/QUOTE] if women are instinctually attracted to strong, muscular men, please explain to me why the ideal man in japan is pretty much the opposite of the ideal man in the west

[QUOTE=Bobie;36679538]what a silly strawman argument i'd like you to find me some sources that depict the objectification of women as a part of human 'instinct'[/QUOTE] I want you to sit back and appreciate the sheer absurdity of what you're implying. If there is [I]anything[/I] in the mind that is influenced by evolution, it would be sexual attraction. You know, the one most crucial thing that determines whether an organism reproduces.

[QUOTE=Loriborn;36679490]Yes, because every woman in the world is exactly the same and there is totally no chance that they are actually attracted to these ideas and concepts of their own free will.[/QUOTE] well, that's only if you believe in the concept of free will. personally i don't, i think we're pretty much ruled by historical forces, more than we'd ever acknowledge. [QUOTE=Loriborn;36679490]Nope, women like smart, sexy, charming, good looking muscular men because the fat, hairy, balding men that run the film industry made them and it has nothing to do with instinct at all.[/QUOTE] i'm sorry to tell you this but almost all romantic movies are written, directed, or produced by men. even twilight had male directors and producers in most of the movies. and instinct? instinct is not a modifiable behavior. either all women like "smart, sexy, charming, good looking muscular" or it's not instinct.

[QUOTE=Dori;36679581]if women are instinctually attracted to strong, muscular men, please explain to me why the ideal man in japan is pretty much the opposite of the ideal man in the west[/QUOTE] hm yeah japan the country with massive rates of virginity and single-status of both sexes

[QUOTE=Loriborn;36679568]I'm not arguing that women being objectified is instinct, I'm arguing that they objectify men the same way men objectify women because of instinct.[/QUOTE] please, explain. i'm failing to understand your point thus far and @ dainbramage, sexual urges can manifest into the objectification of women through conditioning, but objectifying women is in no way genetic. there are many cultures which regard women highly and with respect other than our own

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36679556] quality science right here folks[/QUOTE] i'm not even what science?

[QUOTE=thisispain;36679590]instinct is not a modifiable behavior. either all women like "smart, sexy, charming, good looking muscular" or it's not instinct.[/QUOTE] nope, instinct can be modified, it's a continuum not a strict dichotomy i have an instinct to put food in my mouth but I can starve myself to death if I wanted to

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36679582]I want you to sit back and appreciate the sheer absurdity of what you're implying. If there is [I]anything[/I] in the mind that is influenced by evolution, it would be sexual attraction. [/QUOTE] hold on you just had a go at me for "there's literally no way to empirically verify anything of what's being said". so why don't you empirically verify your claim? [editline]8th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36679612]nope, instinct can be modified[/QUOTE] not a single psychologist believes this. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinct#In_biology[/url]

[QUOTE=Dori;36679581]if women are instinctually attracted to strong, muscular men, please explain to me why the ideal man in japan is pretty much the opposite of the ideal man in the west[/QUOTE] Give me some evidence as to what an ideal man in Japanese culture is. If men could alter the things women are attracted to, why not make them attracted to fat, lazy, dumb misogynists so that we wouldn't have these issues at all? It seems counter-productive that if the film industry could somehow control the men that women are attracted to, that they would make them the opposite of the majority of the populace. You seem to think that everything about a woman is currently controlled by men, and that's more sexist than anything else said here.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36679621]hold on you just had a go at me for "there's literally no way to empirically verify anything of what's being said". so why don't you empirically verify your claim?[/quote] i'm not about to go trawl through google scholar to find an exact citation but I will say that it's fairly easy to falsify if you do things like compare twins reared apart and nonrelative adoptees raised together. you can easily differentiate what is environmental from what is inherited by these methods. as for things which are universal you can look at cross-cultural similarities of what makes people sexually attractive. there is a lot of variance to be sure, but there are also things which barely change such as physical strength, wealth and status for males. [quote]not a single psychologist believes this. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinct#In_biology[/url][/QUOTE] oh dear, seems I used the wrong word. yeah you're right it's not instinct, but that's not to say there aren't innate characteristics. like I said, I have an innate desire in me to consume food but I can overcome it.

[URL]http://www.shacknews.com/article/74683/dead-or-alive-5-collectors-edition-includes-bikinis-of-course[/URL] The fact that the headline of this article is just "well of course Team Ninja did that they're so kooky" instead of "Team Ninja again exemplify/amplify everything that's wrong with the video game industry's treatment of women" is literally a perfect example of how the games industry as a whole (including games "journalists") needs to have it's shit straightened out in dealing with Women and their portrayal.[URL="http://www.shacknews.com/article/74683/dead-or-alive-5-collectors-edition-includes-bikinis-of-course"] [/URL] However, no one, and I mean NO ONE needs $6,000 to make YouTube videos about video games. She doesn't need to play or own the games she's talking about. She's not reviewing them, and the direct gameplay styles of the games don't matter to this problem. The problem with portrayal of women lies almost solely in the visual and narrative realms, and you can watch and/or read about those problems and report your views on them accurately. She doesn't need production values to drive home a decisive point. She shouldn't have made this Kickstarter, not because of it's content, but simply because she doesn't need the money. She should totally go out and make a documentary about Women's portrayal in video games, but she is in no way entitled to $6,000 to do it.

[QUOTE=Loriborn;36679644] You seem to think that everything about a woman is currently controlled by men, and that's more sexist than anything else said here.[/QUOTE] no it's that interactions between women and men in this culture and society today are the result of internalization and human development. sexuality and the ideal human body are incredibly diverse so unless you think people around the world consist of different species or subspecies (hint they don't) the only possible conclusion can be that it is acquired.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36679749]sexuality and the ideal human body are incredibly diverse so unless you think people around the world consist of different species or subspecies (hint they don't) the only possible conclusion can be that it is acquired.[/QUOTE] what a horrifying false dichotomy

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36679720]i'm not about to go trawl through google scholar[/QUOTE] then why the fuck are you having a go at me? [QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36679720]things which barely change such as physical strength, wealth and status for males.[/QUOTE] well physical strength is the only one i couldn't argue about off the top of my head, but wealth and status are man-made conceptions. for many many many many years these weren't even concepts and they certainly are not concepts that our genetic forefathers developed. [QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36679720]oh dear, seems I used the wrong word. yeah you're right it's not instinct, but that's not to say there aren't innate characteristics. like I said, I have an innate desire in me to consume food but I can overcome it.[/QUOTE] but innate characteristic is an incredibly self-serving term. instinct is an actual concept in biology and behavioral science, innate characteristic is not.

[QUOTE=thisispain;36679749]no it's that interactions between women and men in this culture and society today are the result of internalization and human development. sexuality and the ideal human body are incredibly diverse so unless you think people around the world consist of different species or subspecies (hint they don't) the only possible conclusion can be that it is acquired.[/QUOTE] There have been multiple studies that show that instinctively, women (and men) are attracted to specific types of people that are out of their control. Human sexual attraction is not an environmental aspect, it is a genetic one. People don't choose to be attracted to men, women, children, animals, or whatnot, it's hormonal and genetic and that's the same for basic attractions. You put a man in a room with an obviously ugly woman, and an obviously attractive women, and he will know which of the two is better looking.

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36679582]I want you to sit back and appreciate the sheer absurdity of what you're implying. If there is [I]anything[/I] in the mind that is influenced by evolution, it would be sexual attraction. You know, the one most crucial thing that determines whether an organism reproduces.[/QUOTE] the fact that you think "objectification" and "sexual attraction" are the same thing just shows that you've bought into misogynist attitudes towards sexuality

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36679776]what a horrifying false dichotomy[/QUOTE] i was assuming you would read that in the most reasonable context. obviously being sexually attracted to another human being isn't entirely acquired, so i'm not exactly saying that all sexuality and human body ideals is acquired by conditioning.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;36679798]the fact that you think "objectification" and "sexual attraction" are the same thing just shows that you've bought into misogynist attitudes towards sexuality[/QUOTE] good fucking lord I know they're separate things, I'm not defending objectification i'm saying that the reason it exists isn't some kind of global conspiracy by men to keep women down, it's because corporations are giving people what they want - superstimulus in the form of large breasts. isn't it enough for me to say that's fucking atrocious? [editline]8th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;36679800]i was assuming you would read that in the most reasonable context. obviously being sexually attracted to another human being isn't entirely acquired, so i'm not exactly saying that all sexuality and human body ideals is acquired by conditioning.[/QUOTE] oh okay, sorry

[QUOTE=Kabstrac;36679831]Status is something seen in pretty much every species on Earth, so I wouldn't call it "man-made"[/QUOTE] "Status" is something that only exists in social animals, and therefore it's reasonable to say that it's a social construct.

[QUOTE=Loriborn;36679797]There have been multiple studies that show that instinctively, women (and men) are attracted to specific types of people that are out of their control. Human sexual attraction is not an environmental aspect, it is a genetic one. People don't choose to be attracted to men, women, children, animals, or whatnot, it's hormonal and genetic and that's the same for basic attractions. You put a man in a room with an obviously ugly woman, and an obviously attractive women, and he will know which of the two is better looking.[/QUOTE] erm

[QUOTE=Loriborn;36679797]There have been multiple studies that show that instinctively, women (and men) are attracted to specific types of people that are out of their control.[/QUOTE] well if there are multiple then it shouldn't be hard to show me one. [QUOTE=Loriborn;36679797]You put a man in a room with an obviously ugly woman, and an obviously attractive women, and he will know which of the two is better looking.[/QUOTE] unless of course he has a fetish or comes from a culture which has vastly different views on sexual attraction. [img]http://www.naturalmigrations.com/Maasaiwomen.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.ue2008.fr/webdav/site/PFUE/shared/import/1127_clause_europeenne_favorisee/Grande_couv_Clause_Ar.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Dori;36677086]wow a male gamer doesn't see anything wrong with blatant misogyny?? who would have thunk??[/QUOTE] You don't know if he's male OR a gamer. Stop making assumptions.

Everyone in this story is a dumbass.

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;36679839]good fucking lord I know they're separate things, I'm not defending objectification i'm saying that the reason it exists isn't some kind of global conspiracy by men to keep women down, it's because corporations are giving people what they want - superstimulus in the form of large breasts.[/QUOTE] Guess what? Giving "people" (let me correct you: giving "men") what they want, in this case, helps reinforce part of a global system of discrimination. It's not an *intentional* conspiracy, there aren't a bunch of men in a shadowy room talking about how they can keep women down; but it's still a worldwide system of discrimination and sexual objectification is part of that system.

Although this is still stupid, and not the way to get your point across. :Ninja:

[QUOTE=Kabstrac;36679831]Status is something seen in pretty much every species on Earth, so I wouldn't call it "man-made"[/QUOTE] how far are you willing to take that "pretty much"? just so you know insects, plants, and bacteria make up the majority of species on earth, so you're gonna have to stretch that, a lot...