Tobuscus Accused of Rape and Abuse - Polidicks

We don't have evidence either that the allegations are true or false, which means that the only right thing to do is to assume until a court case happens that he is innocent, and she is innocent of lying. However, she is not innocent of trying to stir up an internet lynch mob with accusations that should be kept in court. There is literally nothing good that can come of doing this, and she should be criticized on that basis. If she's telling the truth this is absolutely not the way to go about this. [QUOTE=Bugga12;50117336]I feel like there are a lot of half-truths in this matter and maybe she is exaggerating, but this guy is clearly a scumbag. And he can fuck off with his "I am such a victim" face on that video, because I know that face. I've made that face a few times myself.[/QUOTE] Im certainly no expert of divining guilt from people's faces, but have you considered that different people react to different things with different expressions?

[QUOTE=download;50117209][B]Well sorry, but Western justice systems rely on evidence.[/B] If you fail to use all means available to you to build a case then it's going to fall flat. It may sound harsh but that's the reality of our justice systems - a system I should point out is far better than anything else in the world.[/QUOTE] Three things. First, as someone who studied law with intent to practice, you are wrong. First of all for lumping many conflicting and unique systems of justice across many western countries in to one gestalt, and second of all for presuming they rely on evidence. Rapists have been sent to jail purely on testimony, which itself is considered 'evidence,' but is hardly the standard of evidence you want to use as a magic wand. Second, the system is not built upon evidence. The system is built upon arbitration and neutrality. I served on a jury in a case where the only evidence was a police dispatch and testimony of witnesses. In fact, the case was thrown out merely because [I]two jurors simply believed the plaintiff didn't deserve to win,[/I] even thought the defendant themselves admitted they did what the plaintiff was seeking. (An older black gentleman had been detained and beaten by hospital security, and in turn claimed they had exacerbated pre-existing injuries to the point he needed surgery. The hospital claimed that beating him in to submission was necessary for security reasons.) Third and finally: The so-called Western systems produce the literal opposite of what you claim all the time. A professor I studied under retired from an Appeal program for Death Row inmates because [I]even though it was clear beyond the shadow of a doubt that the man to be put to death was innocent, he could not be freed because the wrongful evidence implicating him had been destroyed in a flood. He died on the mere [B]absence[/B] of evidence.[/I] One example, in France, female terrorists in the 80's were released when their defense lawyer appealed to the court of public opinion, and put so much public pressure on the judge that there was no reasonable way [I]to[/I] find them guilty without enraging much of France. Simply put, even with a mountain of evidence against them, the system failed. Recently in Britain, a woman with [I]semen on her body[/I] failed to pin a rape charge to a millionaire who allegedly [I]slipped and fell and accidentally stuck his dick in her.[/I] In America, OJ Simpson (clearly guilty beyond any sane doubt) was let go because evidentiary standards, flatly, suck. I am not saying that so-called Western Justice isn't some of the most effective in the world, but 'smoking guns' hardly make anything more clear. An additional edit: Let's go ahead, by the by, and use the 'hard' standard of rape-kits as the sole determination of rape. Congratulations, you are now enabling got'cha cases, where a woman baits a man in to sleeping with her and then accuses him shortly thereafter. These (are) would be just as bad as cases of nebulous hearsay. The determination of a criminal rape charge is, and must be, more complex and more sensitive to the realities of life than mere platitudes and 'common sense' solutions.

[QUOTE=Bugga12;50117336]I don't want to get into the technicalities of it but having studied the subject: [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiCJG8Q2Uds[/media] When he says "Extremely serious and false accusations" or "these allegations are absolutely false", he doesn't seem to even believe in that himself. Now, I'm not saying he did rape her or not, he's telling (possibly) the truth about being hurt when he read it, but it could be due to a multitude of things. Not expected, thought she was still wrapped around his finger etc, or genuinely hurt because he's just oblivious to how fucked up he is. I feel like there are a lot of half-truths in this matter and maybe she is exaggerating, but this guy is clearly a scumbag. And he can fuck off with his "I am such a victim" face on that video, because I know that face. I've made that face a few times myself.[/QUOTE] I did not think he was guilty until I watched this video.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;50117340]We don't have evidence either that the allegations are true or false, which means that the only right thing to do is to assume until a court case happens that he is innocent, and she is innocent of lying. However, she is not innocent of trying to stir up an internet lynch mob with accusations that should be kept in court. There is literally nothing good that can come of doing this, and she should be criticized on that basis. If she's telling the truth this is absolutely not the way to go about this. Im certainly no expert of divining guilt from people's faces, but have you considered that different people react to different things with different expressions?[/QUOTE] I made sure to say it didn't SEEM like he believed in it. It's one of those things that even if everything points in the right direction, you can't really be 100% sure.

[QUOTE=Bugga12;50117336] When he says "Extremely serious and false accusations" or [b]"these allegations are absolutely false"[/b], he doesn't seem to even believe in that himself. [/QUOTE] Isn't that exactly the same phrase Bill Clinton used when he lied? Often used as an example of obvious lying? Devils avacado - maybe, since its a video, hes had to rehearse, plan and record a couple of times, so it might only sound like lying.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50117369]Isn't that exactly the same phrase Bill Clinton used when he lied? Often used as an example of obvious lying?[/QUOTE] Not only that, his expression is EXACTLY the same as usually used in conjuction with the typical phrase. But as someone before said, people react to different things in different ways. Usually though, these expressions are universal.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50117369]Isn't that exactly the same phrase Bill Clinton used when he lied? Often used as an example of obvious lying?[/QUOTE] It's argued that Bill Clinton never lied, because of how the questions (and allegations) were put, including the infamous, "Is there currently an inappropriate relationship?" To which he answered no, and on a perjury charge following that replied, "it depends on what your definition of 'is', is." Clinton, and the Monica Lewinsky hearings, are actually a total-sum example of how our definition of lying is plagued by ambiguity. (The long and short of the above example is: He may have broken off the relationship, meaning there [I]was[/I] but no longer is. He may have replied more literally as in, [I]there is no such thing as an inappropriate relationship,[/I] or, most ridiculously, he may have replied very broadly in the sense that there are actually [I]many[/I] such relationships.)

It's really fucked up that people jump to shout guilty when there hasn't been any evidence or even charges pressed. Listen, I'm annoyed by this guy as much as the next guy, but all I see is libel being commited and if the only thing that could come of this beyond Tobuscus's career being wrecked is either a) She's lying, and is going to end up in legal trouble or b) she's telling the truth, is going to end up in legal trouble, and even worse her rapist is likely going to get away with it She should have at least tried to take it to court before reaching out to social media like this, and the fact that this is the approach she has taken before anything else raises some major red flags and should rightfully be taken with a healthy dose of skeptism. I'd never, ever condone victim shaming of any sort but if Toby is innocent here he could end up having his life ruined because of something as petty as having an upset ex. [I]"Listen and believe"[/I] as a philosophy is not only damaging to innocent people having been accused falsely of rape, but to people who have actually been raped and sexually abused as well. People constantly 'crying wolf' and others taking those opportunities to witch hunt without any sort of evidence only to find out they had lied is going to cause people who see that to have a nasty mentality toward actual victims when they themselves try to seek help. She may very well be telling the truth, as could Toby, but either way it's important to be careful not to fall into that knee jerk lynch mob mentality. Afaik nobody here was a witness, nor does anyone here have any actual evidence beyond loosely related statistics to throw around, so until any evidence does arise to actually argue over nobody should be taking sides at all.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;50117349]I did not think he was guilty until I watched this video.[/QUOTE] I've seen apology videos that actually looked convincing, albeit there aren't many that are... but this feels like a bad audition tape.

Rape accusations are fucking insane If you pretty much want a free pass to literally ruin someones life, a rape accusations the way to do it not to say anyone did anything or didn't do anything but that's just my thoughts on that type of thing. [editline]12th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Bugga12;50117336]video [/QUOTE] [t]http://i.imgur.com/33DezkS.png[/t] I'm blown away

PhullyD's take on him being surrounded by "Yes men/women" suddenly makes a lot more sense.

Well, that Toby Turner is an addict is already pretty well known. Youtubers, fans & employees have seen him use various substances & he has gotten into trouble for it. That he cheats on his partners I suppose is very likely the truth considering how many people, even people friends with Toby have spoken about it. But rape? I'm not so sure about this, but taking into consideration that he is an addict and he isn't getting better - I do think it's a possibility. But I won't see this as truth until there's something legitimate to actually prove it.

[QUOTE=~Kiwi~v2;50117466]And with this in mind please unless evidence comes out rather than hear say. Nobody should be jumping at either party. The yes men/women is a real thing though. Take it from me and past relationships.[/QUOTE] Other than my personal opinion on the veracity of his emotions in the video (regardless of it being rehearsed probably and possibly re-recorded a few times) I've kept it clear that I don't believe each party as things are, rather than believing either one, I'll abstain from judgement things have been proven of course. I was just stating my own opinions from past situations too, but the fact that people may react differently to the same thing is still a thing of note to keep in check. This is all just a big fucking mess right now, tbh.

Legit he's probably being falsely accused but that "the truth" video is so impossible to take seriously that I can't even trust him if I wanted to [editline]12th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=CaptainHijacks;50117476]Well, that Toby Turner is an addict is already pretty well known. Youtubers, fans & employees have seen him use various substances & he has gotten into trouble for it. That he cheats on his partners I suppose is very likely the truth considering how many people, even people friends with Toby have spoken about it. But rape? I'm not so sure about this, but taking into consideration that he is an addict and he isn't getting better - I do think it's a possibility. But I won't see this as truth until there's something legitimate to actually prove it.[/QUOTE] one of my grandfathers was apparently a rapist according to closely hidden accusations you'd be amazed at who could hold some pretty dark secrets

I really have no sympathy for rape accusers who do not bring that to the court. I'm gonna flat on victim blame and say that if she did not report the rape in a timely manner, it's her own fault that he will get off scot free. Imagine if we get court cases where a man would ask for prosecuting another guy for punching him in the face a couple of times 4 years ago (with no witnesses as well).

[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;50117499]I really have no sympathy for rape accusers who do not bring that to the court. I'm gonna flat on victim blame and say that if she did not report the rape in a timely manner, it's her own fault that he will get off scot free. Imagine if we get court cases where a man would ask for prosecuting another guy for punching him in the face a couple of times 4 years ago (with no witnesses as well).[/QUOTE] Considering the severity of rape, don't you think that fear could have caused them to not report it? ignoring the fact that they kind of went public instead of reporting it.

People need to calm down and let the legal system handle it. Even the accuser could be criticized for going to the public first, because we've seen several times before how someone getting accused in public this way turned out to be a lie. Which means that: -she has made her accusation less credible because it follows a similar pattern to previous false accusations in the past -if it turns out to be false then tobuscus' name has been permanently dragged through the dirt for no reason And no, I'm not victim blaming, I'm saying that this isn't the right way to go about such things.

Can we please stop with the public defamation with no proof thing? Right or not, baseless claims like that should not be posted to wide public I feel.

[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;50117499]I really have no sympathy for rape accusers who do not bring that to the court. I'm gonna flat on victim blame and say that if she did not report the rape in a timely manner, it's her own fault that he will get off scot free.[/QUOTE] Yep, a child who was raped by a relative or neighbor and couldn't report it at the time sure does deserve to get blamed.

[QUOTE=BlueChihuahua;50117565]Yep, a child who was raped by a relative or neighbor and couldn't report it at the time sure does deserve to get blamed.[/QUOTE] Your word twisting skills and missing point on purpose are weak.

The fact that she decided to make an extensive post on fucking tumblr rather than going to the authorities first seriously damages her credibility, aside from whether her allegations are true or not.

People who think the accused should be titled as a rapist straight away are fucking lacking some common sense. How in 2016 can we not realise that we need evidence of said actions being committed? It would be the same if a woman raped a man.

Right so apparently he drugged her. There is evidence of this. A text conversation they had at the time, she said he drugged her, he said sorry and that it was just for fun. She didn't want to report him to the cops because it would ruin his life. Doesn't prove he raped her but drugging someone in itself is illegal (more so if its with the intention to rape). IMO between that and other accusations made by her and others; hes a scum bag and probably guilty, doubt that would stand up in court though. Note this is after she left him because he was cheating on him. She claimed her raped her before that but she didn't want to report him/leave him because she thought she loved him. So ye that should help people understand why she didn't report him. Love/obsession/manipulation does that to people. Also most rapes happen indoors between people who know each other, people don't report that because A) they dont want to hurt the person doing the raping B) a rape kit shows you had sex not that you we're raped, the rapist could argue its consensual and there would be no proof either way.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50117842] There is evidence of this. A text conversation they had at the time, she said he drugged her, he said sorry and that it was just for fun. She didn't want to report him to the cops because it would ruin his life. [/QUOTE] [citation needed]

Three years ago I witnessed the poster above me murder a homeless man, I was to scared to post about it earlier but now I feel brave enough to inform the people of facepunch that he is a murder. Since this isn't a court of law he is guilty until proven otherwise and everyone should remove him from steam, add him to your ignore list and the mods should ban him from posting.

[QUOTE=soccerskyman;50116950] [U]Tumblr post ([B]TW[/B] obviously):[/U] I realize that other's claims aren't proof, but keep in mind that evidence for these sort of crimes is RARELY possible to provide, being a very personal and private manor. While in the court of law, it's innocent until proven guilty, however, [U][B]this isn't the court of law. I feel pretty confident in saying the dude is a piece of fucking shit.[/B][/U][/QUOTE] Are you by any chance a feminist? [editline]12th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50117130] Some of those reported might be false claims but the vast majority aren't. [/QUOTE] Source needed.

[QUOTE=taipan;50117884]Are you by any chance a feminist? [editline]12th April 2016[/editline] Source needed.[/QUOTE] How about you look it up online instead of wasting my time with intentionally banal requests. I see that won't sit well with you. You'll whinge and think you are clever. FBI statistics. FBI reports from 1996 consistently put the number of "unfounded" rape accusations around 8%. In contrast, the average rate of unfounded reports for "Index crimes" tracked by the FBI is 2%. edit: [URL="https://www.google.co.uk/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=percentage+of+false+rape+allegations&gws_rd=cr,ssl&ei=EvwMV_q5GYr3aKj-ssgF"]url to data[/URL] (also newer data provided later in thread) But I guess those FBI guys are feminists as well! [editline]12th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=download;50117849][citation needed][/QUOTE] Read her statement and look at the texts provided + actual posts from 2013 You will, like I did, have a hard time finding anything on the matter that isn't reddit/gg communities attacking her character and going on about men being persecuted with false rape claims.

[QUOTE=Bugga12;50117336]I feel like there are a lot of half-truths in this matter and maybe she is exaggerating, but this guy is clearly a scumbag. And he can fuck off with his "I am such a victim" face on that video, because I know that face. I've made that face a few times myself.[/QUOTE] Projection does not equal evidence.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50117921]Read her statement and look at the texts provided + actual posts from 2013 You will, like I did, have a hard time finding anything on the matter that isn't reddit/gg communities attacking her character and going on about men being persecuted with false rape claims.[/QUOTE] That's not how this works. YOU made the claim. YOU need to provide the evidence to back it up if asked.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50117842] So ye that should help people understand why she didn't report him. Love/obsession/manipulation does that to people[/QUOTE] That makes sense, but even so why accuse someone so publicly, even if it's true she's only harming her case this way.