Tobuscus Accused of Rape and Abuse - Polidicks

[QUOTE=_Axel;50118516]Agreed. What I meant is that statistics about rapes that are not reported or prosecuted are necessarily made up.[/QUOTE] Well, prosecuted can be circumstantial. People get scared, or evidence may no longer be viable or they may not prosecute for any other reason. As for reported, completely agree, If someone never reports it you cant know how many actually happen

Besides the fact that having 6% provably false rape claims leaves out x% of rape claims that are false but not provably so, meaning there's a higher than 6% amount that are false Besides the fact that, even if courts picked literally every single false rape claim out and found it was 2%, that still would leave 1 in 50 that are false Besides the fact that those statistics are for rape court cases and police reports, which don't apply to public accusations with no police report You [I]still[/I] have to realize that this is a case of the statistics of small numbers. You can't take "well 94% of rapes aren't provably false" and turn it into "this means there's a 94% chance this case isn't provably false". That would be like saying "15% of people in the US are black, here's 7 people, that means one of them must be black". That would be stupid, right? You need evidence that someone is black, and [I]then[/I] make the statistics that x% of Americans are black. You don't go "the majority of Americans are white, this person is an American, therefore we should just assume they're white", because that's making up statistics and using that as "evidence". You don't go "I've flipped 3 tails so far, there's a 6% chance of getting 4 tails in a row, therefore there's a 94% chance this next one is heads." You have to look at the individual case - a coin flip - and look at the evidence for that case: there's equal space, shape and weight on the heads and tails side, so there's an equal chance of landing on both. Other coin flips don't affect this coin flip. Furthermore, if you have a box where 94% of the dice in it are weighted, you still have to look at each individual die to be able to say "this die is weighted". If you just say "eh, there's a 94% chance this die is weighted, so I'm just going to say it's weighted" for each and every die, you'll end up saying that 100% of the die are weighted - which is [I]wrong[/I]. Likewise, the statistics of proven, unproven, and provably false rape cases relies on [I]judging each case solely on evidence and [B]then[/B] making the statistics [B]from that[/B].[/I] Other rape cases being unlikely to be blatantly false doesn't mean that this individual case is unlikely to be blatantly false.

[QUOTE=Last or First;50118608]Besides the fact that having 6% provably false rape claims leaves out x% of rape claims that are false but not provably so, meaning there's a higher than 6% amount that are false Besides the fact that, even if courts picked literally every single false rape claim out and found it was 2%, that still would leave 1 in 50 that are false Besides the fact that those statistics are for rape court cases and police reports, which don't apply to public accusations with no police report You [I]still[/I] have to realize that this is a case of the statistics of small numbers. You can't take "well 94% of rapes aren't provably false" and turn it into "this means there's a 94% chance this case isn't provably false". That would be like saying "15% of people in the US are black, here's 7 people, that means one of them must be black". That would be stupid, right? You need evidence that someone is black, and [I]then[/I] make the statistics that x% of Americans are black. You don't go "the majority of Americans are white, this person is an American, therefore we should just assume they're white", because that's making up statistics and using that as "evidence". You don't go "I've flipped 3 tails so far, there's a 6% chance of getting 4 tails in a row, therefore there's a 94% chance this next one is heads." You have to look at the individual case - a coin flip - and look at the evidence for that case: there's equal space, shape and weight on the heads and tails side, so there's an equal chance of landing on both. Other coin flips don't affect this coin flip. Furthermore, if you have a box where 94% of the dice in it are weighted, you still have to look at each individual die to be able to say "this die is weighted". If you just say "eh, there's a 94% chance this die is weighted, so I'm just going to say it's weighted" for each and every die, you'll end up saying that 100% of the die are weighted - which is [I]wrong[/I]. Likewise, the statistics of proven, unproven, and provably false rape cases relies on [I]judging each case solely on evidence and [B]then[/B] making the statistics [B]from that[/B].[/I] Other rape cases being unlikely to be blatantly false doesn't mean that this individual case is unlikely to be blatantly false.[/QUOTE] Exactly. Statistics mean nothing to the individual.

This whole goddamn thing reminds me of the markiplier situation where a girl did the SAME exact thing and blasted him on tumblr rather than you know...going to the police or something. And surprise surprise, the claims were false and had no evidence whatsoever. But you know what the worst part was? Markiplier addressed these claims and opened up about how he had been abused in his own past relationships and wouldn't want to be an abuser. What the hell is with this trend of accussing youtubers of such grave things? Wasn't yamimash accused recently too?

i haven't read much of this thread just because my girlfriend has been funneling my info the last couple of days from different blogs and sites, but from what i've heard the girl's got no real grounds to be saying this and it's incredibly suspicious sounding all around some of the 'screencapped conversations' look straight up fabricated, like they're not even -remotely- how people would talk to eachother especially given the alleged scenario dont wanna dismiss it if it's true but currently im seriously doubting she's being truthful. seems like a simple case of a relationship with a popular internet figure gone awry and she figures she can take a big stab at his reputation by abusing one of the most vastly publicised accusations in recent history.

[QUOTE=taipan;50117884]Are you by any chance a feminist?[/QUOTE] Honestly, the "innocent until proven guilty" does really only apply in a court of law. You can't police public perception. Osama bin Laden was never, to my knowledge, proven guilty in a court of law, but it seems like people are pretty a-ok with blaming him for 9/11 and other atrocities. Less extreme examples of course exist, Cosby is one of them. I think these cases should be in the media the least amount possible, but that doesn't change the fact that people can think and say what they want. Sure, there's something called libel, but yeah, y'know. Anyway, wasn't this guy in the Law & Order SVU episode where they basically said rape is a hallmark of the gaming community?

I sure do wish people had this level of objectivity with literally any other accusation of crime.

You know, I don't know a lot of shit about this dude. But from what it seems he CLEARLY has some issues and needs help. As for the rape I have no idea...but the damage is already been done.

This fucking internet lynch mob shit needs to stop. Take it to the god damn authorities if it really happened, this witchhunt mentality is just dangerous and allows rape accusations to be used as a weapon against people.

This happened to me in college. I went one a date with a girl, we made out after a movie. The day after she asked me to be her boyfriend, I said no. She then made up a story that I raped her... But instead of going to the authorities, she went to my boss, current love interest, as well as the Dean of students. I had no proof I was innocint, was banned from all the dorms indefinitely, all without the law being involved. It's really hard to read these stories without remembering how hopeless I was and how much it affected my life. I have severe hatred for actual rapists but also for bitter people who would ruin someone's life with an accusation like that. Now I'm not famous or anything but just thinking if I aspired to be a popular figure how that would come back and bite my ass

The people saying "just go to the authorities" obviously have no idea how the police tend to treat rape victims. Not saying she's right or wrong in this instance but have some perspective.

[QUOTE=Jim Morrison;50119359]The people saying "just go to the authorities" obviously have no idea how the police tend to treat rape victims. Not saying she's right or wrong in this instance but have some perspective.[/QUOTE] Care to elaborate? I don't think "Don't trust the police" is something you should tell a rape victim. Unless you think mob justice is a good alternative?

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50118069]Lots of "different people react to things differently" here, yet apparently some in this thread can only understand that concept when it's applied to the *alleged* rapist. Guess what, victims (or *alleged* victims) also react to things differently. Have you heard of people in abusive relationships who don't recognize the abuse? Who feel powerless in the face of such traumatic experiences? And sometimes require weeks, months or even years without their partner's influence to come to terms with what really happened? And, when they do, feel understandably angry? So why is it A-OK to act like a late public accusation is a huge red flag, but forming opinions on Tobuscus' reaction is too far-fetched?[/QUOTE] How about not forming any opinions at all until it's gone through the legal systems I guess it was already discussed earlier in the thread but it's a shame that stuff like this is so polarizing. Extreme opinions take over, you can't defend the alleged without people saying you're calling the accuser a liar, you can't defend the accuser without people calling her a liar and calling false rape claims. I'm not accusing you of that by the way, just agreed with your sentiments and wanted to continue of it.

[QUOTE=_Axel;50119392]Care to elaborate? I don't think "Don't trust the police" is something you should tell a rape victim. Unless you think mob justice is a good alternative?[/QUOTE] [URL="http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/2013/08/23/i-am-a-false-rape-allegation-statistic/"]Here's one example of a rape victim's encounter with the police.[/URL] And please don't put words in my mouth. All I said was going to the police is by no means easy and sometimes it actually makes the situation worse.

[QUOTE=download;50116974]Of course, it's called the court of public opinion. Actually, no, it's really easy to prove. It's called a rape kit, every hospital has them. They'd also do a blood work-up and look for any drugs. These are all very easy to prove.[/QUOTE] Yeah maybe when the rape recently happened but not like months down the road

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50117921]How about you look it up online instead of wasting my time with intentionally banal requests. [/QUOTE] Asking for a source is banal? Really? So you never look for sources yourself? [QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50117921] I see that won't sit well with you. You'll whinge and think you are clever. [/QUOTE] ? Ok then. [QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50117921] FBI statistics. FBI reports from 1996 consistently put the number of "unfounded" rape accusations around 8%. In contrast, the average rate of unfounded reports for "Index crimes" tracked by the FBI is 2%. edit: [URL="https://www.google.co.uk/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=percentage+of+false+rape+allegations&gws_rd=cr,ssl&ei=EvwMV_q5GYr3aKj-ssgF"]url to data[/URL] (also newer data provided later in thread) But I guess those FBI guys are feminists as well! [/QUOTE] Not feminist, but I do think information from 1996 is not really informational in this case. Especially considering, internet shaming of "rapist" didn't exist back then. And accusing someone of rape on social media with no intent of going to the police, is a real thing now. With this in mind, its not unlikely to think that today's "unfounded" rape accusation rate would be higher than 8%. Which in my opinion is a really high number. However in 1996, they apparently found that you can only be raped if you resisted in some way. While now the requirements are broader. Knowing both these points, id say the actual number remains vague until some proper data from a reliable recent(Social media age) source is put on the table.

I don't have an opinion about the allegations but making a public post about it before going through official channels (police/lawyer) is just bad. You possibly destroy somebodies life with false allegations or destroy your own life with false allegations. In most cases you destroy both since people will continue to accuse the person even if he was innocent. Even worse you pull in a lot of people into this as we have already seen with ex girlfriends that support both sides. And of course the whole internet goes crazy about it. It is simply the wrong way to handle this situation.

-snip-

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;50118807]Honestly, the "innocent until proven guilty" does really only apply in a court of law. You can't police public perception. Osama bin Laden was never, to my knowledge, proven guilty in a court of law, but it seems like people are pretty a-ok with blaming him for 9/11 and other atrocities. Less extreme examples of course exist, Cosby is one of them. I think these cases should be in the media the least amount possible, but that doesn't change the fact that people can think and say what they want. Sure, there's something called libel, but yeah, y'know. Anyway, wasn't this guy in the Law & Order SVU episode where they basically said rape is a hallmark of the gaming community?[/QUOTE] The fact that "innocent until proven guilty" does not apply to public perception does not mean I cannot call people (OP) out on it. What im trying to point out. With my I admit "slightly edgy" remark: Is that OP shows the signs of being a tumbler warrior/feminist. Which in my experience, often have a problem with living in an echo chamber where everyone reinforces and agrees to the same statements. Until for them, they become the social norm. Namely, OP accusing Tobi of rape without proof. [QUOTE=soccerskyman;50116950]. While in the court of law, it's innocent until proven guilty, however, this isn't the court of law. I feel pretty confident in saying the dude is a piece of fucking shit.[/QUOTE] While here on FP, and in most of my social circle. This is socially unacceptable behavior. Thats whats behind that statement.

[QUOTE=taipan;50119840]ofen have a problem with living in an echo chamber where everyone reinforces and agrees to the same statements.[/QUOTE] Not calling you out specifically but this is one of those funny things that get thrown around while people don't stop to recognize their own echo chambers.

I hate these stories about internet celebrities being accused of rape because there is no right way to talk about it. You don't just assume someone is a rapist because someone said they are, obviously, but I also don't want to be in the position where I'm calling a potential victim a liar. So the only thing I can choose to do is not comment but that just takes me back to square one with two people I couldn't give the slightest of shits about.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50119824]Funny how you replied to several other of my posts but didn't take into account the more recent statistics on false rape accusations I posted next. Its almost like you are predispositioned to oppose the arguement I'm presenting, to the point where you discard and ignore any data provided. The request for more data was banal. A 5 second google search would have done it (as I linked) and honestly its stuff people should just know. Not knowing that then thinking you have the authority/knowledge to discuss false rape claims is simply saddening.[/QUOTE] The statistics you posted last aren't satisfactory because they don't account for public accusations that aren't reported to the police, they also only take into account claims that are provably false and your extrapolation to all rape claims is baseless because it assumes proving that a rape claim is false and proving that it's true are as statistically likely. We simply have to accept that statistics are useless on matters we can't measure; we can't know the amount of rapes that go unreported because they are unreported, we can't know the amount of false claims because they're not all provable, and we can't know the amount of claims that are true either. In any case I don't see how statistics, meaningless or not, have anything to do with specific cases such as this one.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50119824]Funny how you replied to several other of my posts but didn't take into account the more recent statistics on false rape accusations I posted next. [/QUOTE] What are you on about? That was my first post in this thread. Maybe you have me confused with someone else in this thread? That might explain your unreasonable aggression and disposition against me. Maybe you should change your tune, I only asked for a source. After which I provided you with a argumenten reason why I think your source is invalid. Yet you call me Banal, whingy and "clever". Why do I deserve that? [QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50119824] Its almost like you are predispositioned to oppose the arguement I'm presenting, to the point where you discard and ignore any data provided. [/QUOTE] You provided a google search which turned up sources: I dont know, look biased (Womens rights websites), or are so old they are irreverent in my opinion. This last one was your main source, and I think my arguments against it are valid. [QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50119824] The request for more data was banal. A 5 second google search would have done it (as I linked) and honestly its stuff people should just know. Not knowing that then thinking you have the authority/knowledge to discuss false rape claims is simply saddening.[/QUOTE] A 5 second google search turned up nothing, and neither did checking the sources on that wikipedia article. I dont claim to have knowledge and certainly no authority, in fact quite the opposite. Im asking for accurate, reliable information to get knowledge. Now tell me, does trying to be informed make me a sad person? [editline]12th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=emly;50119856]Not calling you out specifically but this is one of those funny things that get thrown around while people don't stop to recognize their own echo chambers.[/QUOTE] Well, I agree. Getting opinions from the other side, requires you to go out of your comfort zone. For example for me: Hanging around on a tumbler feminist forum, or going to a furry convention or Mosque or something. Which isnt something most people really want to spend their free time on I think. People,(me as well) are doomed to be in some form of the echo chamber due to this. At some point this echo chamber becomes so big thats, its called a culture.

[QUOTE=download;50117849][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=highvoltage;50117866]Three years ago I witnessed the poster above me murder a homeless man, I was to scared to post about it earlier but now I feel brave enough to inform the people of facepunch that he is a murder. Since this isn't a court of law he is guilty until proven otherwise and everyone should remove him from steam, add him to your ignore list and the mods should ban him from posting.[/QUOTE] I can't believe a MURDERER is actually posting on FP that's sickening, what do you have to say for yourself download?

[QUOTE=J!NX;50120016]I can't believe a MURDERER is actually posting on FP that's sickening, what do you have to say for yourself download?[/QUOTE] hold up now, can we really be sure? why didn't the victim resist being stabbed, or go to the police? very suspicious, but I respect the murder victim didn't go all over social media right away.

[QUOTE=emly;50120077]hold up now, can we really be sure? why didn't the victim resist being stabbed, or go to the police? very suspicious, but I respect the murder victim didn't go all over social media right away.[/QUOTE] Victim blaming it all comes down to this now [editline]12th April 2016[/editline] ok, just did some research, I take that back, they were ASKING to be stabbed

[QUOTE=J!NX;50120093]Victim blaming it all comes down to this now [editline]12th April 2016[/editline] ok, just did some research, I take that back, they were ASKING to be stabbed[/QUOTE] "victim blaming" is the single worst meme of this decade, right next to the "but thats a fallacy!!" crowd people just throw these fucking words around as a substitute for actual counter arguments and points, it's like get out of jail free cards.

[QUOTE=Melnek;50120131]"victim blaming" is the single worst meme of this decade, right next to the "but thats a fallacy!!" crowd people just throw these fucking words around as a substitute for actual counter arguments and points, it's like get out of jail free cards.[/QUOTE] was parodying exactly that Victim blaming a lot of the time pretty much is a slingshot-remark that people use to try and easily counter the other side, it's a bit slimy to just use it off the bat at the same time it's a really legitimate complaint when used correctly. Just look at some of the extremists of the repub "She was asking for it" lican party Victim blamers exist and that's depressing

[QUOTE=Melnek;50120131]"victim blaming" is the single worst meme of this decade, right next to the "but thats a fallacy!!" crowd people just throw these fucking words around as a substitute for actual counter arguments and points, it's like get out of jail free cards.[/QUOTE] it's a bit easier to type than "this statement is putting an undue amount of responsibility onto the person who had an offense committed against them by someone who decided to act in an antisocial manner"

[QUOTE=Jackald;50118036]It's a myth that being accused of a crime is damaging to your reputation?![/QUOTE] People seem to sometimes not care and not forgive people of crimes they didn't actually commit it makes it hard to know if someone did or did not do a crime