[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;35854278]The good news is that this could be the end for the Euro. The bad news is Socialism.[/QUOTE]
I believe you've got those switched around.
Socialism isn't anything near to what Americans think it is. It is absolutely NOT related to communism, it has absolutely NOTHING against Capitalism and Free Market and is NOT at all what Obama is doing in the US (this is the closest you have to socialism, but it simply isn't).
I'm French and glad Sarkozy got his ass kicked out of France, he was an hypocritical son of a bitch, kept passing laws feeding the riches and stripping out foot by foot the middle class / low salaries of their rights using the crisis as an excuse. One of the first thing he did was boosting his salary by 110%, and then by 170%. Major asshole over here.
Now Hollande will probably do more for the people, but is not qualified to deal with our financial problems right now imo. If I have to give Sarkozy credits for something, that would be making sure we're still in relatively good shape in the E.U. by tightening our relations with Germany. I'm afraid Hollande will fuck this up.
I wished Jean Luc Mélanchon passed the first round. He's a far-left wing dude, rather honest and despite his attachment to some of the basic notions of communism, would have been much better suited for the task awaiting our new president.
[QUOTE=-Get_A_Life-;35854699]Socialism isn't anything near to what Americans think it is. It is absolutely NOT related to communism, it has absolutely NOTHING against Capitalism and Free Market and is NOT at all what Obama is doing in the US (this is the closest you have to socialism, but it simply isn't).
I'm French and glad Sarkozy got his ass kicked out of France, he was an hypocritical son of a bitch, kept passing laws feeding the riches and stripping out foot by foot the middle class / low salaries of their rights using the crisis as an excuse. One of the first thing he did was boosting his salary by 110%, and then by 170%. Major asshole over here.
Now Hollande will probably do more for the people, but is not qualified to deal with our financial problems right now imo. If I have to give Sarkozy credits for something, that would be making sure we're still in relatively good shape in the E.U. by tightening our relations with Germany. I'm afraid Hollande will fuck this up.
I wished Jean Luc Mélanchon passed the first round. He's a far-left wing dude, rather honest and despite his attachment to some of the basic notions of communism, would have been much better suited for the task awaiting our new president.[/QUOTE]
You're right in saying that Socialism is not Communism, but to say it has [I]nothing[/I] against Capitalism is pretty incorrect.
[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;35854278]The good news is that this could be the end for the Euro. The bad news is Socialism.[/QUOTE]
The bad news is state socialism which is a contradiction in terms.
Stateless socialism/libertarian socialism/anarchism is something I'd like to see personally
[QUOTE=Megafan;35854802]You're right in saying that Socialism is not Communism, but to say it has [I]nothing[/I] against Capitalism is pretty incorrect.[/QUOTE]
Our "Parti Socialiste" (socialist party) never ever criticised / criticise our system as a whole. It fights for the rights of the middle / lower class (well, at least it used to). I'm used to my French conception of socialism, it's probably different in other countries aswell. You'd have to look at the "Front de Gauche" (far-left wing => Jean Luc Mélanchon) or "Front National" (far-right wing => Marine Le Pen) if you want people who'll fight against capitalist values.
Marine Le Pen is a lunatic tho and Mélanchon said Castro's Cuba was a fine democracy / Chavez was a great guy.
[QUOTE=JustExtreme;35854809]The bad news is state socialism which is a contradiction in terms.
Stateless socialism/libertarian socialism/anarchism is something I'd like to see personally[/QUOTE]
Er, no.
Communism has no state, socialism definitely does.
[editline]7th May 2012[/editline]
Libertarian socialism is a contradiction in terms, and you're an anarchist so you're either naive or dumb. Or both.
[QUOTE=-Get_A_Life-;35854911]Our "Parti Socialiste" (socialist party) never ever criticised / criticise our system as a whole. It fights for the rights of the middle / lower class (well, at least it used to). I'm used to my French conception of socialism, it's probably different in other countries aswell. You'd have to look at the "Front de Gauche" (far-left wing => Jean Luc Mélanchon) or "Front National" (far-right wing => Marine Le Pen) if you want people who'll fight against capitalist values.
Marine Le Pen is a lunatic tho and Mélanchon said Castro's Cuba was a fine democracy / Chavez was a great guy.[/QUOTE]
Ah, well then you must have your own interpretation of Socialism, as many do.
I would agree with The Economist, [URL="http://www.economist.com/node/21553446"]Hollande is a rather dangerous man[/URL], and I bet many of you who support him here won't be equally optimistic in 4 years. One thing is for sure, with Hollande, the debt will increase dramatically by raised pension ages and loads of spending. No cuts in the budget will be made at all, and a sick 75% income tax on people earning over 1 million euro per year won't nearly cover the costs of government.
[QUOTE=Megafan;35855122]Ah, well then you must have your own interpretation of Socialism, as many do.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, most likely. Anyway, Hollande is not against capitalism. Nor is he a commie.
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;35853486]Woah 51%?
So the other half is stuck with someone they didn't want?
That kinda sucks.[/QUOTE]
If you think about it, countries like Canada and other parliamentary democracies have it worse. Here in Canada, while the conservatives have a majority government (majority of parliament seats), Harper only got ~39% of the popular vote, or 5.8 million votes. Yay democracy!
That is scary news, not just for France or Europe, but the world. He wants to implement government intervention policies - raising the minimum wage (raise unemployment), increase in spending (increase debt, decrease purchasing power of the taxpayer who has to pay for it) and pay for it with excessive tax increases, the brunt of which will be focused on the rich and the banks. He wants to implement make-work policies by hiring back thousands of laid off workers who were let go due to spending cuts. This is encouraging inefficiency in a misguided attempt to stimulate the economy. It will lead to people working in places where there is no need of their services, just for the sake of giving them work. It will increase waste and inefficiency.
The incredible tax increases on the rich will encourage them to downsize their businesses to avoid the higher taxes (raising unemployment) and hoard cash for a rainy day instead of investing it, in fear of future government intervention in the market.
Tax increases on the banks will encourage them to leave France and operate in other EU countries, which will then inspire an EU-wide tax increase for banks to prevent them from escaping the tax. The banks will be weakened, their lending capacity will be reduced. His policies against the banks are a threat to the stability of the euro, and therefore to the stability of the world markets.
[QUOTE=RonPaul4ever;35855159]I would agree with The Economist, [URL="http://www.economist.com/node/21553446"]Hollande is a rather dangerous man[/URL], and I bet many of you who support him here won't be equally optimistic in 4 years. One thing is for sure, with Hollande, the debt will increase dramatically by raised pension ages and loads of spending. No cuts in the budget will be made at all, and a sick 75% income tax on people earning over 1 million euro per year won't nearly cover the costs of government.[/QUOTE]
I read The Economist religiously, but I can't help but think that they are way too worried baout Hollande.
Nobody is going to singlehandedly destroy Europe
[QUOTE=-Get_A_Life-;35854699]Socialism isn't anything near to what Americans think it is. It is absolutely NOT related to communism, it has absolutely NOTHING against Capitalism and Free Market and is NOT at all what Obama is doing in the US (this is the closest you have to socialism, but it simply isn't).[/QUOTE]
but see this is totally and completely wrong, Socialism is a thoroughly state controlled economy
what's wrong is that everyone is depicting states like Norway, Sweden, etc that [I]are[/I] capitalist states with heavy state regulation as socialist when they're not. everyone is incorrectly using the word.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;35857648]but see this is totally and completely wrong, Socialism is a thoroughly state controlled economy
what's wrong is that everyone is depicting states like Norway, Sweden, etc that [I]are[/I] capitalist states with heavy state regulation as socialist when they're not. everyone is incorrectly using the word.[/QUOTE]
Capitalist Nations with Heavy Socialist Influence would be a better term for countries like France, Sweden, etc.
CNWSI. Rolls off the tongue.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;35857648]but see this is totally and completely wrong, Socialism is a thoroughly state controlled economy
what's wrong is that everyone is depicting states like Norway, Sweden, etc that [I]are[/I] capitalist states with heavy state regulation as socialist when they're not. everyone is incorrectly using the word.[/QUOTE]
Socialism does not need to be a command economy, it could be state-controlled or it could be publicly controlled, say through worker's councils or institutions like credit unions or co-ops.
[QUOTE=-Get_A_Life-;35855171]Yeah, most likely. Anyway, Hollande is not against capitalism. Nor is he a commie.[/QUOTE]
But isn't socialism abot [b]abolishment[/b] of capitalism and the empowerment of the common people?
[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;35854278]The good news is that this could be the end for the Euro. The bad news is Socialism.[/QUOTE]
Not every country can run their country into the ground like you want them to.
[editline]7th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Noble;35857097]
The incredible tax increases on the rich will encourage them to downsize their businesses to avoid the higher taxes (raising unemployment) and hoard cash for a rainy day instead of investing it, in fear of future government intervention in the market.[/QUOTE]
Poor rich people are so oppressed QQ
Well, when a party wins an election, they dont suddenly change everything to what they want.
Even if the end goal of the Socialist party was to abolish capitalism (that is no longer the goal), they would not be able to.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;35858890]Poor rich people are so oppressed QQ[/QUOTE]
Textbook example of ignoring the point I'm trying to make
Does that mean gypsies are going back? I was happy to not see them around in past year when I traveled through Europe.
[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;35855099]Er, no.
Communism has no state, socialism definitely does.
[editline]7th May 2012[/editline]
Libertarian socialism is a contradiction in terms, and you're an anarchist so you're either naive or dumb. Or both.[/QUOTE]
Libertarian as in not the current hijacked use of the term by Ron Paul, etc. Libertarian as in anarchism.
What is wrong with anarchism sir and how is libertarian socialism contradictive?
[QUOTE=znk666;35858774]But isn't socialism abot [b]abolishment[/b] of capitalism and the empowerment of the common people?[/QUOTE]
No. It's kind of for the empowerment of people (the appropriate term would be "support") but doesn't question capitalism.
At least, it's definitly not how the Socialist Party (and Hollande) rolls.
was this how the election went down?
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/dRyv2.jpg?1?3295[/IMG]
That is perfect
[QUOTE=Ond kaja;35853397]Yes, because the European Union is a DISASTER, economically. Not because of countries like Greece or Italy falling into a recession, the whole system is fundamentally flawed. The monetary policies are centralised, meaning that they are controlled by one organ that is responsible for the entire Eurozone area, while the fiscal policies are decentralised, meaning that they are controlled by the member states independently. But, when member states have different fiscal policies, it creates an asynchronisation in the business cycle. While one state is in a boom the other might be on its way to a bust. Since these states have the same currency the centralised monetary policy can not set the interest rate to an appropriate level for both states since they are in a different position, where a change of the interest rate might benefit one state but is harmful for the other.
However, if one state has a higher population and a higher GDP and the other is less populated and has lesser GDP, the monetary policy will most likely benefit the former. And this is why the interest level set by the European Central Bank always seem to benefit Germany, UK and other big countries. They are more represented in the European Parliament since they have a higher population, so they can more effectively control the politics of the EU. Consequently, the "success" (or lack of the opposite) of Germany can't really be accredited to Merkel, she just happens to be the leader of the most populous European state.[/QUOTE]
this makes it sound like there is no solution and the EU should be dissolved.
The EU should accept the idea of inflating the Euro to help out countries with debt or something.
Doing as much as possible to restrict inflation is stupid at this point.
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;35853486]Woah 51%?
So the other half is stuck with someone they didn't want?
That kinda sucks.[/QUOTE]
Yep, you can thank First Past The Post for that one!
[QUOTE=-Get_A_Life-;35854699]Socialism isn't anything near to what Americans think it is. It is absolutely NOT related to communism, it has absolutely NOTHING against Capitalism and Free Market and is NOT at all what Obama is doing in the US (this is the closest you have to socialism, but it simply isn't).
I'm French and glad Sarkozy got his ass kicked out of France, he was an hypocritical son of a bitch, kept passing laws feeding the riches and stripping out foot by foot the middle class / low salaries of their rights using the crisis as an excuse. One of the first thing he did was boosting his salary by 110%, and then by 170%. Major asshole over here.
Now Hollande will probably do more for the people, but is not qualified to deal with our financial problems right now imo. If I have to give Sarkozy credits for something, that would be making sure we're still in relatively good shape in the E.U. by tightening our relations with Germany. I'm afraid Hollande will fuck this up.
I wished Jean Luc Mélanchon passed the first round. He's a far-left wing dude, rather honest and despite his attachment to some of the basic notions of communism, would have been much better suited for the task awaiting our new president.[/QUOTE]
because government regulation, public schools and universal healthcare = free market
[QUOTE=Lambeth;35863640]was this how the election went down?
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/dRyv2.jpg?1?3295[/IMG][/QUOTE]
What is that from?
[QUOTE=Noble;35861833]Textbook example of ignoring the point I'm trying to make[/QUOTE]Your point is fictional.
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