French elections: Socialist Hollande wins - Polidicks

[QUOTE=The Baconator;35864077]this makes it sound like there is no solution and the EU should be dissolved.[/QUOTE] Nah mate, it's the opposite. Dissolving the EU creates more problems than it solves, what would you do with the Euro, what would you do with all the trade agreements etcetc. It's simply not worth it. Instead, the fiscal policy should be centralised as well, with shared debts, synchronised governmental intervention and so on. At least then the monetary policy could be more efficiently planned, if not every state had their own ways of fixing their economy (granted, they still have to follow some regulations, but honestly, a lot of countries break against these and there's not much the EU can do about it).

[quote] 75% wealth tax? Expect a mass exodus of the wealthy from France soon. Also, watch for Germany and France to break all ties followed by mass hostilities between the citizens! The dominoes will start falling very soon. [/quote] From a fox news comment. This should be the ultimate argument against whatever bullshit the republicans throw at the "buffet rule" (which is such a weak law anyway). If his statement is proven false by france, then there is no escaping it. Perhaps our billionaires are just assholes. Most of the corporations that own the goverment don't even have an allegiance to this country.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;35865191]Your point is fictional.[/QUOTE] Well that hasn't been proven at all but okay.

[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;35852309]Ooh, isn't this the guy who proposed the 75% tax for the rich?[/QUOTE] If I was a rich person in France I'd almost contemplate moving. That is [I]way[/I] too much.

The rich have been taxed more in the past and they didn't endure capital flight, think eisenhower. Itms not like the state's not going to use it in their benefit anyway.

[QUOTE=Conscript;35867205]The rich have been taxed more in the past and they didn't endure capital flight, think eisenhower. Itms not like the state's not going to use it in their benefit anyway.[/QUOTE] If I was a rich person I'd be pissed. I don't know the historical figures but 75% sounds ridiculously high. On a moral level I don't really agree with it, feels like you are punishing someone for their own success. But of course you need a way to balance the state/national budget it's just the way in which you get there.

It used to be 90 in places. only a few thousand people make enough money to be effected And keep in mind that it is 75% of your income over 1,000,000 Euros, which is around a million and a half dollars a year.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;35863640]was this how the election went down? [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/dRyv2.jpg?1?3295[/IMG][/QUOTE] as a French person I can confirm that this is how elections happen every five years

Good, Austerity is terrible for improving economies

[QUOTE=The Baconator;35864581]What is that from?[/QUOTE] The Boys, Garth Ennis, Issue 37

[QUOTE=Aman VII;35867244]If I was a rich person I'd be pissed. I don't know the historical figures but 75% sounds ridiculously high. On a moral level I don't really agree with it, feels like you are punishing someone for their own success. But of course you need a way to balance the state/national budget it's just the way in which you get there.[/QUOTE] To put this in perspective, here are some historical income tax rates for the United States: [IMG]http://puu.sh/tyvG[/IMG] From 1936, and indeed even up until Reagan's terms (although the graph only goes up to 1956), we had a tax rate for millionaires higher than 75%, and at no point did they flee the country en masse.

The problem is we are now adjusted to these taxes, it's difficult to explain, but we are used to low taxes so when taxes get jacked up people start getting mad.

Though we should adjust for inflation or something. One million was a lot more then than it is now

[QUOTE=Zambies!;35869575]The problem is we are now adjusted to these taxes, it's difficult to explain, but we are used to low taxes so when taxes get jacked up people start getting mad.[/QUOTE] We were just as 'adjusted' to low taxes in 1916, yet in 1918 we raised the top rate to 77% from 13%. Really, your argument does not have a leg to stand on.

[QUOTE=YouWithTheFace.;35853686]caviar socialist are fun huh guys?[/QUOTE] Are you saying it's not okay to have a problem with neoliberal capitalism if you're upper middle class? Socialism is only okay when it's implemented through a bottom up revolt?

[QUOTE=Mlisen14;35869725]Are you saying it's not okay to have a problem with neoliberal capitalism if you're upper middle class? Socialism is only okay when it's implemented through a bottom up revolt?[/QUOTE] Yeah what about the hot dogs conservatives ?

[QUOTE=Lonestriper;35867805]Good, Austerity is terrible for improving economies[/QUOTE] But great at reducing terrifyingly huge deficits. It's Catch 22 really.

[QUOTE=Megafan;35869492]To put this in perspective, here are some historical income tax rates for the United States: From 1936, and indeed even up until Reagan's terms (although the graph only goes up to 1956), we had a tax rate for millionaires higher than 75%, and at no point did they flee the country en masse.[/QUOTE] At every time those huge tax hikes appear, the US is about to enter a world war. Don't try to fool us with your statistics, you know very well that funding a world war isn't cheap, and people with a high income are willing to pay high taxes for such an important purpose. Notice how the tax rates gradually are lowered from the end of the first world war till the second world war is about to start. To add an input to the debate about a possible 75 % tax rate on people earning over 1 million euro per year, one should keep in mind that a person's income often reflect an amount of hard work and responsibility. To take away 75 % of that is not only very unfair, but a horrible way to motivate work and making work profitable. Some of you might believe that all rich people are just chilling and relaxing, but I can assure you that so isn't the case. To have such a high income as 1 million euro per year requires one to constantly work overtime and always be ready and responsible for how the company one works at performs. I'm not trying to pity rich people, but to set up huge unreasonable tax rates for them is just pure populism.

The rich are not being taxed unreasonably and that is hardly going to happen. Edit: Americans were raised from the cradle to be wary of socialism and communism for several generations and this most likely has effected alot of known and personal philosophical or political takes on how to handle an economy.

[QUOTE=Falchion;35873390]The rich are not being taxed unreasonably and that is hardly going to happen.[/QUOTE] 75 % is unreasonable at all income levels.

[QUOTE=RonPaul4ever;35873157]To add an input to the debate about a possible 75 % tax rate on people earning over 1 million euro per year, one should keep in mind that a person's income often reflect an amount of hard work and responsibility. To take away 75 % of that is not only very unfair, but a horrible way to motivate work and making work profitable. Some of you might believe that all rich people are just chilling and relaxing, but I can assure you that so isn't the case. To have such a high income as 1 million euro per year requires one to constantly work overtime and always be ready and responsible for how the company one works at performs. I'm not trying to pity rich people, but to set up huge unreasonable tax rates for them is just pure populism.[/QUOTE]You do know that everything you just said has no basis in reality, correct? Income level has no correlation to work ethic or responsibility. That's a lie that they typically use as justification for their incomes, but it is by and by fictional. And there is nothing unfair about it. People like to throw the claim that its "Punishing success" but that is a claim that means exactly nothing at all, and is just used as a means to cry. Its Ayn Rand level bullshit. [editline]8th May 2012[/editline] Its pointedly stupid to claim that someone would rather make less money so that they don't have as large of a percentage taken off in taxes than to make more money but be taxed at a higher percentage. Even with the higher tax level, you still earn vastly more than others at lower tax levels.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;35873414]You do know that everything you just said has no basis in reality, correct?[/QUOTE] Nice opening line. Do you think I would suggest something like what I just did if I thought it didn't have any basis in reality? So, where have you found your deep insight in how the reality is? Have you ever talked to a CEO? Have you ever followed a CEO around for a day at work? Have you ever had some kind of similar responsibility as someone earning 1 million euro per year? You may believe whatever you want, but don't try to throw away my arguments as some kind of Ayn Rand bullshit. In so case I'll throw away your arguments as angrywhitelowincomesocialist.com bullshit.

[QUOTE=RonPaul4ever;35873495]Nice opening line. Do you think I would suggest something like what I just did if I thought it didn't have any basis in reality? So, where have you found your deep insight in how the reality is? Have you ever talked to a CEO? Have you ever followed a CEO around for a day at work? Have you ever had some kind of similar responsibility as someone earning 1 million euro per year? You may believe whatever you want, but don't try to throw away my arguments as some kind of Ayn Rand bullshit. In so case I'll throw away your arguments as angrywhitelowincomesocialist.com bullshit.[/QUOTE] You think about the rich but you don't take into account the poor. Social care and progressive taxing is required, it has been seen that the poor can rely on them alot better than on alms and charity.

[QUOTE=Falchion;35873650]You think about the rich but you don't take into account the poor.[/QUOTE] I suggest that you are a bit more modest in your claims about who I care about. The poor are the ones who will pay the highest price for a stagnating economy with high unemployment. To give poor people a welfare check isn't always the best way in helping them. To instead create a more prosperous labor market with growing businesses who provide people with real jobs is a sincerely better way of aiding the poor. Also, please don't assume that I oppose all kinds of public welfare or progressive taxation. It's the 75 % tax rate on people earning over 1 million euro per year we're discussing here.

[QUOTE=RonPaul4ever;35873767]I suggest that you are a bit more modest in your claims about who I care about. The poor are the ones who will pay the highest price for a stagnating economy with high unemployment. To give poor people a welfare check isn't always the best way in helping them. To instead create a more prosperous labor market with growing businesses who provide people with real jobs is a sincerely better way of aiding the poor. Also, please don't assume that I oppose all kinds of public welfare or progressive taxation. It's the 75 % tax rate on people earning over 1 million euro per year we're discussing here.[/QUOTE] The 75% income tax rate is only planned to apply for income surpassing €1,000,000. A millionaire still pays the same tax rate for income under €1,000,000 as everyone else would.

[QUOTE=Ond kaja;35875201]The 75% income tax rate is only planned to apply for income surpassing €1,000,000. A millionaire still pays the same tax rate for income under €1,000,000 as everyone else would.[/QUOTE] Why should [i]any[/i] percent of their income be taxed at such a high rate?

Because they make a ridiculous amount of money?

[QUOTE=person11;35875468]Because they make a ridiculous amount of money?[/QUOTE] And what entitles everyone else to the money they earned, often by running successful and efficient businesses?

The Government could put it to better use than the citizen, who would probably use it to make even more money. Do not give me any of that trickle-down bullcrap either. Plus, assuming that someone is making their money in efficient and ethical ways while working hard for it is way too general and does not at all show the reality of how the top 0.1% live. [editline]8th May 2012[/editline] So I just looked up some inflation figures, and One dollar today is equivalent to 0.12 1950 cents. That means that making One million dollars a year of our money would be 120000 dollars back then. And in 1950 the tax bracket for 100001 dollars was 89%. So it looks like even with Hollande's tax hike, taxes wouldn't be has high as before. Wait none of this makes sense since we are talking about France not the USA. Well I can still make the point that putting a 75% tax on an income of more than a million dollars a year would not be crazy in the United States.

[QUOTE=Noble;35875384]Why should [i]any[/i] percent of their income be taxed at such a high rate?[/QUOTE] To even out the income gaps between the rich and the poor.