@ the monopoly thing, it wouldn't be an issue if a huge majority of games used direct x; so if you're a gamer you're left out of the loop if you can't upgrade.
[QUOTE=KorJax;46995009]Lets act surprised that a new standard is only being supported on their new platform. Especially one they are trying to get everyone to migrate over to (for free) to reduce fragmentation (which means easier support).
Seriously in what world does it make any sense to have it be backwards compatable with W8/W7? They are trying to get rid of their platform fragmentation, not create even more.[/QUOTE]
It's not even about reducing fragmentation. It's about selling new product to those who already have the old product that works fine. GPU manufacturers can't sell new GPUs to gamers unless there are new features in the games that older GPUs can't run. So they encourage game developers to create games that require the newer GPUs for optimum gaming. Game developers in turn want to develop for the largest gaming market. This means if most everyone still runs DX9, their game will have a DX9 mode. If the majority is at DX11 then every game will have a DX11 mode.
This works against GPU upgrades...unless Microsoft, controlling Windows, can be persuaded to bring a new Directx to the table. If Win 10 is a free upgrade to the majority of the market, and it brings DX12, then logically the majority of the market will have access to DX12. Thus game developers have reason to develop for it, and thereby generate the need for gamers to buy new GPUs.
This is because although Kepler/Fermi and even the new Maxwell cards might be said to be DX12 compatible, this does not mean you'll want to run DX12 games in DX12 mode on them. The ONLY time you'll be able to say for sure what cards can run a DX12 game is when DX12 is out AND there are DX12 games out AND those games are benchmarked on those GPUs.
If the past is any indication, both Nvidia and AMD will have an all new line of GPUs timed to debut when the first batch of AAA DX12 games come out. And they will say "These are the cards gamers want".
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;46997865]It's not even about reducing fragmentation. It's about selling new product to those who already have the old product that works fine. GPU manufacturers can't sell new GPUs to gamers unless there are new features in the games that older GPUs can't run. So they encourage game developers to create games that require the newer GPUs for optimum gaming. Game developers in turn want to develop for the largest gaming market. This means if most everyone still runs DX9, their game will have a DX9 mode. If the majority is at DX11 then every game will have a DX11 mode.
This works against GPU upgrades...unless Microsoft, controlling Windows, can be persuaded to bring a new Directx to the table. If Win 10 is a free upgrade to the majority of the market, and it brings DX12, then logically the majority of the market will have access to DX12. Thus game developers have reason to develop for it, and thereby generate the need for gamers to buy new GPUs.
This is because although Kepler/Fermi and even the new Maxwell cards might be said to be DX12 compatible, this does not mean you'll want to run DX12 games in DX12 mode on them. The ONLY time you'll be able to say for sure what cards can run a DX12 game is when DX12 is out AND there are DX12 games out AND those games are benchmarked on those GPUs.
If the past is any indication, both Nvidia and AMD will have an all new line of GPUs timed to debut when the first batch of AAA DX12 games come out. And they will say "These are the cards gamers want".[/QUOTE]
I honestly have no idea what you're trying to convey with this post. Companies want people to buy new stuff?
Only really hardcore enthusiasts will buy a new GPU just because a new DX version came out. The only ones who will care about DX9/10 support are people with cards already too slow to run the newest games at a playable framerate, meaning they'd want to upgrade anyway. DX11 support won't go anywhere for a long while.
Nvidia and AMD will of course have new cards available when DX12 games start coming out, but the term " first batch of AAA DX12 games coming out" is so nebulous with regards to timeframe and quantity that it might as well be completely meaningless. AAA games and GPUs come out on such a regular schedule that they couldn't not coincide with each other's release.
You're basically just talking gibberish.
[QUOTE=Cold;46994737]Most of them run fine for me, and if it just are specific games that have trouble, you can always try [url]http://www.nongnu.org/wined3d/[/url]
[editline]23rd January 2015[/editline]
OpenGL is miles behind on the competition, the only thing that keeps them afloat is being the only serious open standard. Although in that aspect they kind fail since OpenGL is generally poorly supported, or is wrongly implemented, and there are a whole bunch of bugs to fix between GPU vendors.
There is no multithreading compatibility, and has no support for some of the more recent features like command buffers that metal, mantle and DirectX 12 offer.
They even don't support most of the new DirectX 12 stuff in the 4.5 extensions.
They are making an effort to fix this in whats called "OpenGL Next" but they are easily 5+ years late with doing so.[/QUOTE]
Not posting to get into the which one is better. I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with you.
My point was that there is an alternative to DirectX. You're not [B]forced[/B] to use it.
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;46997865]It's not even about reducing fragmentation. It's about selling new product to those who already have the old product that works fine. GPU manufacturers can't sell new GPUs to gamers unless there are new features in the games that older GPUs can't run. So they encourage game developers to create games that require the newer GPUs for optimum gaming. Game developers in turn want to develop for the largest gaming market. This means if most everyone still runs DX9, their game will have a DX9 mode. If the majority is at DX11 then every game will have a DX11 mode.[/QUOTE]
You are wrong.
This is all about reducing fragmentation.
To this end Microsoft is giving every Windows 7 or 8 user the opportunity upgrade for free to Windows 10. Additionally, DX12 is backwards compatible with every DX11 card on the market, which is practically every GPU made in the last 4-5 years.
All so that Windows 10 and DX12 will have a massive initial user base and developers will actually use their features as integral parts of their programs instead of getting hung up on legacy support.
[QUOTE=darksoul69;46997981]Not posting to get into the which one is better. I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with you.
My point was that there is an alternative to DirectX. You're not [B]forced[/B] to use it.[/QUOTE]
Its an alternative that's shittier.
[QUOTE=Cold;46998074]Its an alternative that's shittier.[/QUOTE]
And unfortunately it will stay that way until the vendors stop being so fragmented
We could see rapid adoption of DX12 in 2 years if Microsoft's boasts of performance increases are true. Mostly because Xbox One games will use it so the ports might as well support it then too.
PC gaming is also a platform that requires frequent upgrades to be the best experience, so this dosen't bug me much but I know how people hate change so much.
[QUOTE=AlexConnor;46998059]You are wrong.
This is all about reducing fragmentation.
To this end Microsoft is giving every Windows 7 or 8 user the opportunity upgrade for free to Windows 10. Additionally, DX12 is backwards compatible with every DX11 card on the market, which is practically every GPU made in the last 4-5 years.
All so that Windows 10 and DX12 will have a massive initial user base and developers will actually use their features as integral parts of their programs instead of getting hung up on legacy support.[/QUOTE]
They could reduce fragmentation without a new DX though. Why move up to 12 at all? Because it's not about fragmentation, it's about boosting sales. No one wants consumers to sit on their gear for years on end, just like in the phone market. They want people to keep upgrading and buying every couple of years. The problem is no one will spend money without a perceived need. The 'need' is new features that you can only get with a new GPU(ie by spending money).
Mark my words, all this 'backwards compatibility' crap is just that, crap. When DX12 comes out, and especially when game developers start talking DX12 requirements, the message will change. Instead of backwards compatible, it will be "Yeah, we guess you can play this game in DX11 mode, but why would you want to? We recommend a DX12 card for an enjoyable experience". Then everyone will know that's what this was all about from the beginning.
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;47017747]They could reduce fragmentation without a new DX though. Why move up to 12 at all? Because it's not about fragmentation, it's about boosting sales. No one wants consumers to sit on their gear for years on end, just like in the phone market. They want people to keep upgrading and buying every couple of years. The problem is no one will spend money without a perceived need. The 'need' is new features that you can only get with a new GPU(ie by spending money).
Mark my words, all this 'backwards compatibility' crap is just that, crap. When DX12 comes out, and especially when game developers start talking DX12 requirements, the message will change. Instead of backwards compatible, it will be "Yeah, we guess you can play this game in DX11 mode, but why would you want to? We recommend a DX12 card for an enjoyable experience". Then everyone will know that's what this was all about from the beginning.[/QUOTE]
You can't reduce fragmentation without boosting sales, and boosting sales and getting everyone on the latest platform is the very definition of "reducing fragmentation".
It's pretty clear that they're shooting for both at once.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;46989226]Because they're quite literally holding a monopoly on Direct X[/QUOTE]
And Ferrari is holding a monopoly on Ferraris. So what?
I kind of expected this.
And honestly, unless Windows 10 has something that is just absolute shit, I don't see why I wouldn't upgrade anyway. It's pretty much just shaping up to be a non-shit version of Windows 8.
The only dodgy thing I've seen about Windows 10 so far is Cortana, but I'm sure there will be a way to disable it. In OS or otherwise.
[QUOTE=Rahu X;47018964]I kind of expected this.
And honestly, unless Windows 10 has something that is just absolute shit, I don't see why I wouldn't upgrade anyway. It's pretty much just shaping up to be a non-shit version of Windows 8.
The only dodgy thing I've seen about Windows 10 so far is Cortana, but I'm sure there will be a way to disable it. In OS or otherwise.[/QUOTE]
The "Hey Cortana" activation phrase is turned off by default, and you can right click in the taskbar now to get rid of her search box.
[editline]27th January 2015[/editline]
It's not a proper "disable" at the OS level but it's practically the same since you're shutting off all her access points
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