Donald Trump just threatened to cause an unprecedented global financial crisis
106 replies, posted
Sigh. As expected
Isnt it awesome that people want this nut to become the President of America?
How can you be so casual about playing with the national debt? Does he want to plunge the country alone and unaided into beggary, or at least screw everything badly enough it'll take years to recover? People consider US bonds the least risky thing to invest in right now, and those investments will suffer if Trump gets elected and tries to carry out this statement. I mean, it's likely that Congress will try their damn best to block such measures, but there's no telling if he'll lobby to push his measures through somehow.
[QUOTE=NoobSauce;50278342]so why do people want this guy as a leader of a whole country?[/QUOTE]
Not really sure why everyone is so upset Bush did this shit TWICE and everyone was just fine with it.
"Hey what about this Gore guy"
"Nah, I'd rather be homeless then let a liberal be President"
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;50278513]Honestly, we are do for another recession/depression within the next year or two. They tend to follow 7.5 ~ 10 year cycles, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see a recession right during the elections.[/QUOTE]
While I believe most economists agree we're likely to get some period of economic downturn soon, it would be relatively mild one compared to the more recent 08/09 one, and is mostly just an inevitable by-product of market fluctuation.
This, however, would be an incomprehensibly devastating, and completely avoidable depression. There's absolutely zero reason for the government to default on its debt, besides being completely ignorant about the government's role in the economy.
It's the difference between getting sick from a cold like we all occasionally do from time-to-time, versus getting sick because you suddenly decided to bathe in shit for no discernible reason.
[QUOTE=Biotoxsin;50278428]Couple of things I've seen that might explain it -
1. People seeing others speaking satirically about him and taking it seriously because they're dumb. I feel like some want to "see things burn".
[B]2. Closet racists who think their ideology is becoming mainstream again.[/B]
3. Lack of investment in politics and enjoying the show.[/QUOTE]
I'm not really seeing Trump getting an abnormally strong backing from the oldschool white supremacists that could sometimes be considered "closet" racists. I mean he's the republican candidate so by default 99% of them will be devastated if he loses, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's special to them. He's definitely special to the alt right, but they can hardly be called closet cases as far as racism is concerned.
Bernie's the one who doesn't know economics tho
[QUOTE=Tobin;50279701]Bernie's the one who doesn't know economics tho[/QUOTE]
So essentially there's a choice between a senior politician with some idea about what he's talking about, and a crazy old rich bastard who wants to fuck his daughter, crash the world economy, and build a giant wall on the Mexican border before nuking the Islamic State to kingdom come?
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;50279001]Isnt it awesome that people want this nut to become the President of America?
How can you be so casual about playing with the national debt? Does he want to plunge the country alone and unaided into beggary, or at least screw everything badly enough it'll take years to recover?[/QUOTE]
As much as Trump seems like he's lost his fucking mind, I would like to make the point... so what if America doesn't pay its debts back? What's anyone else going to do about it? Like really, how is China going to [I]make[/I] America pay it back? Sure, they can boycott the US which might suck (although, in all fairness, it's morally questionable as to whether or not it's actually fair in the first place for places like the US to reap the benefits of what is essentially slave labour in China), especially for the lower and middle classes, but it's not going to drive everyone to poverty and force the country to be collectively begging to... who? The only way I can see of that someone like China can actually physically recoup their losses to the US is by going to war with them and physically [I]taking shit from them[/I], and while that's certainly a possibility I'm under the impression that it's remote enough to not be a real concern.
I'm not saying that it's smart or mature to not pay your debt back to other countries, but at the end of the day it doesn't really seem like America actually has to; their military might is enough that they can just... not. Furthermore, if debt was actually [I]really[/I] an issue that the US had to face up to you'd think it wouldn't have gotten as bad as [I]18 fucking trillion dollars[/I].
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50279729]So essentially there's a choice between a senior politician with some idea about what he's talking about, and a crazy old rich bastard who wants to fuck his daughter, crash the world economy, and build a giant wall on the Mexican border before nuking the Islamic State to kingdom come?[/QUOTE]
I was being sarcastic you silly head
[QUOTE=NoobSauce;50278342]so why do people want this guy as a leader of a whole country?[/QUOTE]
Because He's knocked out every other Republican, Bernie Sanders is starting to Bern out, and all this legal shit with Hiliary is just ammunition for Trump to decimate her.
Like him or not it looks like 4-8 years of a Trump Administration.
[QUOTE=Maegord;50278351]Because he, "tells it like it is," or something.[/QUOTE]
But remember at the same time if he says anything dumb it's "just an act" right?
[QUOTE=sltungle;50279754]As much as Trump seems like he's lost his fucking mind, I would like to make the point... so what if America doesn't pay its debts back? What's anyone else going to do about it? Like really, how is China going to [I]make[/I] America pay it back? Sure, they can boycott the US which might suck (although, in all fairness, it's morally questionable as to whether or not it's actually fair in the first place for places like the US to reap the benefits of what is essentially slave labour in China), especially for the lower and middle classes, but it's not going to drive everyone to poverty and force the country to be collectively begging to... who? The only way I can see of that someone like China can actually physically recoup their losses to the US is by going to war with them and physically [I]taking shit from them[/I], and while that's certainly a possibility I'm under the impression that it's remote enough to not be a real concern.
I'm not saying that it's smart or mature to not pay your debt back to other countries, but at the end of the day it doesn't really seem like America actually has to; their military might is enough that they can just... not. Furthermore, if debt was actually [I]really[/I] an issue that the US had to face up to you'd think it wouldn't have gotten as bad as [I]18 fucking trillion dollars[/I].[/QUOTE]
You don't seem to grasp the diplomatic and financial consequences of refusing (Not failing too, but out right refusing, which is entirely different) to pay back debt.
That won't only have consequences with china, which would cause econonmic unrest in both of our countries, but it would cause us to lose trust with ALL our trade partners and anyone who invests money into our country.
We would literally just not have the money for anything if people stopped investing in us and our trade with friendly nations fell through.
That army we have is also the most expensive army in the world, it won't be pretty if we can no longer pay the soldiers and officers that keep it functioning.
To be honest I have no idea what I'm talking about here because I haven't really thought about or researched this kind of scenario before but I don't have too to know that it would be an utter diplomatic disaster on all fronts.
god, what a fucking knob, does he want America's credit rating to go in the toilet?
also the implications of this statement on the future if the actually >attempts< this
[editline]8th May 2016[/editline]
this is the first time I'm voting and I already feel completely disenfranchised, it's either an insanely rich, insanely insane candidate, or a moderately insanely rich, slimy criminal, neither of which I believe will help the country in any way or even have the capability of empathizing with me as a citizen.
I'm confused, is he threatening with global financial crisis if he doesn't get elected as president or is it the other way?
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;50279831]Because He's knocked out every other Republican, Bernie Sanders is starting to Bern out, and all this legal shit with Hiliary is just ammunition for Trump to decimate her.
Like him or not it looks like 4-8 years of a Trump Administration.[/QUOTE]
The only way Trump is going to decimate Hillary is if everyone forget the absolutely insane stuff he has said.
[editline]8th May 2016[/editline]
Who is going to give a shit about emails when the other guy at one point supported killing the wives and children of terrorist and currently wants to forcibly deport a couple million people from the us. No one who isn't already with Trump.
[QUOTE=Shibbey;50279837]But remember at the same time if he says anything dumb it's "just an act" right?[/QUOTE]
Remember! The internet is one person and the internet is only allowed to have one opinion of any thing
-snip, didn't see that poster was already replied to on the second page, this was redundant-
[QUOTE=NoobSauce;50278342]so why do people want this guy as a leader of a whole country?[/QUOTE]
Personally, it's not that I want him in. I wanted Sanders. But that time has seemingly passed, and Clinton is railroading through the DNC since she's the establishmentarian candidate. Unless she's indicted, and she's currently in the process of being investigated by the FBI for her emails, we're stuck with her. The country is already broken. Rather than try to prop it up and postpone this bullshit for another 4-8 years with Clinton and her views, I'd much rather burn the current order of things to the ground and start over. Because the way things are right now, with income inequality and student loan debt and the shitty job market (etc.), this is not a sustainable system no matter how you choose to look at it, and it's only benefiting a few people currently at the expense of the rest of us.
If we can't change the system from within using a candidate like Sanders (who is a rarity of a opportunity, in terms of his honesty and record as a politician), then fuck it. We tried, we failed, time to adopt the nuclear approach-- which is guaranteed to produce results. It will definitely help destroy the old order of things.
And beyond that, in a black sort of way, I think it will be funny for Trump to win. It'll be a cute punishment for the American people and a cruel wake up sign for them, for being so fucking stupid as to allow the country to get this desperate in the first place. This honestly could have all been prevented, but the fact of the matter is it wasn't, we're to blame for not preventing it, and now we (hopefully) are going to pay the penalty for it and get what's deserved.
[editline]8 May 2016[/editline]
And before someone tries to paint me as a diehard Sanders supporter who is just pissy that he lost, that's not what's going on at all. Sanders was/is a great guy, and I'm sad to see that he's fallen so far behind Clinton, but he's still just a single person (albeit a very high quality person and political leader); at the end of the day, I care more about the country than I do the success or failure of an individual candidate. Individuals come and go, but what lives on is the nation. As well, a missed opportunity is a missed opportunity, and rather than fret and stew on it, you should just pick up and move on. Sanders is out, that's all there is to it. Unless Clinton is indicted by the feds, then he's out. So now we have a choice between Trump or Clinton, both of whom are extremely shitty. So I'm going with Trump, because of the trainwreck of a leader he'll be. His behavior [i]will[/i] force an outcome; either we'll be totally surprised and get a good leader, or more likely we'll be stuck with a pompous assclown of a human being for four (possibly eight) years who will adopt destructive policies and speak like an angry 16-year-old that doesn't understand economics or governance.
In the end, something will happen.
[QUOTE=Govna;50281013]So I'm going with Trump, because of the trainwreck of a leader he'll be. His behavior [i]will[/i] force an outcome; either we'll be totally surprised and get a good leader, or more likely we'll be stuck with a pompous assclown of a human being for four (possibly eight) years who will adopt destructive policies and speak like an angry 16-year-old that doesn't understand economics or governance.[/QUOTE]
and what if, come 2024, people haven't learnt their lesson and vote in another candidate who continues the work of dismantling America and throwing her deeper into poverty, ignorance, misery, turmoil, and hatred?
why vote for destruction and making things worse? is this not the opposite of what is desired? what if people just continue? what if (god forbid) people actually enjoy trumps presidency despite the steady erosion of living standards, civil rights, and ecology? what the hell kind of logic is it to demand the system dismantled and millions needlessly suffer all so that there's a vague hope that if we do the wrong thing in response to a problem it'll set a precedent for doing the right thing (rather than the more likely opposite)
[quote]Individuals come and go, but what lives on is the nation.[/quote]
if americans vote for people like trump then the american nation doesn't have much longer to live
[QUOTE=Govna;50281013]The country is already broken. Rather than try to prop it up and postpone this bullshit for another 4-8 years with Clinton and her views, I'd much rather burn the current order of things to the ground and start over.[/QUOTE]
Make sure your "break it until it's forced to be started over from scratch" policy doesn't take down the entire global economy while you're at it. Think of the rest of your family here. Canadians are directly influenced by what America does as we have the longest undefended (for now) border in the world and tens of billions of dollars in [B]daily[/B] trade goes both ways.
I would say that we Canadians would stand to suffer the biggest impacts if America elected Trump and started seriously fucking with things, but I think we'd take a distant second or third place to any nation President Trump bombs or invades or cancels trade deals with, and if the entire global economy implodes because Trump defaults on America's debt the way he said he would, well... there's no point in holding a pissing contest anymore, because nobody will be able to afford to waste piss like that.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50281044]and what if, come 2024, people haven't learnt their lesson and vote in another candidate who continues the work of dismantling America and throwing her deeper into poverty, ignorance, misery, turmoil, and hatred?[/quote]
Then that candidate will bring us one step closer to the dismantling that we need. We're going to get there eventually with the way things are going. You can't continue having politicians like what we've got in a country that has the kinds of problems this one has and expect it to last forever.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50281044]why vote for destruction and making things worse?[/quote]
Because that's what your voting for regardless of whether you go with Trump or Clinton. Clinton has no intention of reforming the establishment that she's a part of, and as others have even admitted in the past, she's "just going to be presiding over the slow decline of the United States". Trump is the nuclear option, as I said. Things have to get worse before they get better. People are going to have to be pushed to a point of desperation before they finally learn their lesson and finally reach the decision that enough is enough.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50281044]is this not the opposite of what is desired?[/quote]
It is. But like I said, we're not going to make things better the way things are currently structured. Nothing really changes under the present order of things, and that stagnation is a problem. Just look at how ineffective Congress has been.
Again, we had an opportunity here to make things better with Sanders-- someone who stood against everything both Clinton and Trump represented with their dishonesty, elitism, and greed-- but that time may very well have passed. So fuck it, if we can't change the system from within using the democratic process and electing decent candidates to office (who are a rarity in the first place), then the system is useless and should be destroyed.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50281044]what if people just continue? what if (god forbid) people actually enjoy trumps presidency despite the steady erosion of living standards, civil rights, and ecology?[/quote]
This isn't going to happen indefinitely. It never has before in history, and it never will. You can only push people so far before they finally decide that enough is enough and rationalize the fact they have very little/nothing left to live for, at which point they are willing to take matters into their own hands. Everything comes to a head eventually; it's not a question of if, it's only a question of time.
You really think people are just going to sit around and continue to do nothing when their living standards plunge into the shitter, their civil rights are worthless, and the environment is fucked beyond belief? When has this ever happened before in human history? Never lol. Again, you can only push people so far before they finally decide enough is enough.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50281044]what the hell kind of logic is it to demand the system dismantled and millions needlessly suffer all so that there's a vague hope that if we do the wrong thing in response to a problem it'll set a precedent for doing the right thing (rather than the more likely opposite)[/quote]
It's not a vague hope at all. It's guaranteed that something will change. In time, a new order of things will emerge. It's not going to be anarchy and chaos forever; every time this happens, and it has happened plenty of times throughout history, something new emerges.
And the fact of the matter is the present system is not working for us, the American people, and for our benefit as it's supposed to be. Why is that acceptable, exactly? Why should we just say, "Oh well, we're getting fucked, but it's no big deal"? That's the exact kind of apathetic bullshit that is keeping it afloat right now, when in reality is doesn't have to be this way. And it shouldn't be this way either.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50281044]if americans vote for people like trump then the american nation doesn't have much longer to live[/QUOTE]
That's fine. It will come back. Something will arise again. Something always does. Again, look at history. Whether it's the fall of Rome, Persia, Spain, the British Empire, etc., the vacuum of disorder doesn't last forever. People inevitably pick up the pieces and rebuild.
The worst problem, like Hegel said, is that people and governments are perfectly capable of studying history and understanding it-- they just aren't capable apparently of learning anything from it to make better decisions about the future, so this process rinses and repeats itself time and time again the world over. It doesn't have to be that way though if people don't want it to be. It's within our best interests as well to work towards making sure they do actually learn something this time around so we can avoid this bullshit from happening again (or at least for as long as we can).
[editline]8 May 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;50281117]Make sure your "break it until it's forced to be started over from scratch" policy doesn't take down the entire global economy while you're at it. Think of the rest of your family here. Canadians are directly influenced by what America does as we have the longest undefended (for now) border in the world and tens of billions of dollars in [B]daily[/B] trade goes both ways.
I would say that we Canadians would stand to suffer the biggest impacts if America elected Trump and started seriously fucking with things, but I think we'd take a distant second or third place to any nation President Trump bombs or invades or cancels trade deals with, and if the entire global economy implodes because Trump defaults on America's debt the way he said he would, well... there's no point in holding a pissing contest anymore, because nobody will be able to afford to waste piss like that.[/QUOTE]
Well it's going to. That's the way the global economy works. Doesn't matter if we're talking about the United States here, or if we're talking about China or some European state; whatever happens to one affects the others. Ripples. Consider then perhaps it's not such a great idea after all. Do you want to be dependent on us? I'd rather if you weren't, for [i]your[/i] benefit honestly. Trade is fine, but again, this kind of global system isn't really sustainable, and it's not exactly a good thing either-- not for jobs, not for promoting economic prosperity and equality, not for environmental conservation, etc.
Jesus Christ, I'm sorry but I'm sticking with Hilary, shit like this is why I have nightmares about the future, People who are voting for trump to watch "America burn" doesn't realize that they would take the whole world down, And It would be worse than the Great Depression.
[quote]This isn't going to happen indefinitely. It never has before in history, and it never will. You can only push people so far before they finally decide that enough is enough and rationalize the fact they have very little/nothing left to live for, at which point they are willing to take matters into their own hands. Everything comes to a head eventually; it's not a question of if, it's only a question of time.[/quote]
i don't know how you can say this when the exact opposite happened in history
[quote]That's fine. It will come back. Something will arise again. Something always does. Again, look at history. Whether it's the fall of Rome, Persia, Spain, the British Empire, etc., the vacuum of disorder doesn't last forever. People inevitably pick up the pieces and rebuild.[/quote]
rome took four painfully long drawn out centuries to die. the civilization began to decay in the time of augustus, and over the centuries people saw the cities shrink, their civil rights eroded, taxes going up, the gradual disintegration of civil society and the dissolution of real politics, and the steady conversion of the entirety of classical civilization into an autocratic empire ruled by despots
if people vote for people like trump on the assumption that things must get worse before they get better, all that's going to happen is you'll end up with civilization eventually collapsing since each election (or civil war or coup) people will think "everything is shit, only by destroying the system can it end"
the reality is that because civilization is so stable and flexible, it can become an exceptionally shitty thing to live in before the institutions you desire an end to finally collapse.
voting for trump on such logic means voting for an america that will spend the next 400 years committing suicide in elaborate fashion
[QUOTE=Govna;50281150]Well it's going to. That's the way the global economy works. Doesn't matter if we're talking about the United States here, or if we're talking about China or some European state; whatever happens to one affects the others. Ripples. Consider then perhaps it's not such a great idea after all. Do you want to be dependent on us? I'd rather if you weren't, for [i]your[/i] benefit honestly. Trade is fine, but again, this kind of global system isn't really sustainable, and it's not exactly a good thing either-- not for jobs, not for promoting economic prosperity and equality, not for environmental conservation, etc.[/QUOTE]
"Well, too bad." Nice empathy.
I guess this is one way of dealing with the population crisis, but I kind of figured we'd have solved it some other way if climate change didn't take care of things with natural pressures (like widespread loss of clean water, arable land, and habitable areas) before we found a solution.
[QUOTE=Govna;50281150]Then that candidate will bring us one step closer to the dismantling that we need. We're going to get there eventually with the way things are going. You can't continue having politicians like what we've got in a country that has the kinds of problems this one has and expect it to last forever.
Because that's what your voting for regardless of whether you go with Trump or Clinton. Clinton has no intention of reforming the establishment that she's a part of, and as others have even admitted in the past, she's "just going to be presiding over the slow decline of the United States". Trump is the nuclear option, as I said. Things have to get worse before they get better. People are going to have to be pushed to a point of desperation before they finally learn their lesson and finally reach the decision that enough is enough.
It is. But like I said, we're not going to make things better the way things are currently structured. Nothing really changes under the present order of things, and that stagnation is a problem. Just look at how ineffective Congress has been.
Again, we had an opportunity here to make things better with Sanders-- someone who stood against everything both Clinton and Trump represented with their dishonesty, elitism, and greed-- but that time may very well have passed. So fuck it, if we can't change the system from within using the democratic process and electing decent candidates to office (who are a rarity in the first place), then the system is useless and should be destroyed.
This isn't going to happen indefinitely. It never has before in history, and it never will. You can only push people so far before they finally decide that enough is enough and rationalize the fact they have very little/nothing left to live for, at which point they are willing to take matters into their own hands. Everything comes to a head eventually; it's not a question of if, it's only a question of time.
You really think people are just going to sit around and continue to do nothing when their living standards plunge into the shitter, their civil rights are worthless, and the environment is fucked beyond belief? When has this ever happened before in human history? Never lol. Again, you can only push people so far before they finally decide enough is enough.
It's not a vague hope at all. It's guaranteed that something will change. In time, a new order of things will emerge. It's not going to be anarchy and chaos forever; every time this happens, and it has happened plenty of times throughout history, something new emerges.
And the fact of the matter is the present system is not working for us, the American people, and for our benefit as it's supposed to be. Why is that acceptable, exactly? Why should we just say, "Oh well, we're getting fucked, but it's no big deal"? That's the exact kind of apathetic bullshit that is keeping it afloat right now, when in reality is doesn't have to be this way. And it shouldn't be this way either.
That's fine. It will come back. Something will arise again. Something always does. Again, look at history. Whether it's the fall of Rome, Persia, Spain, the British Empire, etc., the vacuum of disorder doesn't last forever. People inevitably pick up the pieces and rebuild.
The worst problem, like Hegel said, is that people and governments are perfectly capable of studying history and understanding it-- they just aren't capable apparently of learning anything from it to make better decisions about the future, so this process rinses and repeats itself time and time again the world over. It doesn't have to be that way though if people don't want it to be. It's within our best interests as well to work towards making sure they do actually learn something this time around so we can avoid this bullshit from happening again (or at least for as long as we can).
[editline]8 May 2016[/editline]
Well it's going to. That's the way the global economy works. Doesn't matter if we're talking about the United States here, or if we're talking about China or some European state; whatever happens to one affects the others. Ripples. Consider then perhaps it's not such a great idea after all. Do you want to be dependent on us? I'd rather if you weren't, for [i]your[/i] benefit honestly. Trade is fine, but again, this kind of global system isn't really sustainable, and it's not exactly a good thing either-- not for jobs, not for promoting economic prosperity and equality, not for environmental conservation, etc.[/QUOTE]
If you're so desperate to live without the benefits of modern civilization, why don't you just go live in a fucking amish colony or something.
Meanwhile, I actually like having things like food and medicine and shelter and electricity. I would sooner die than let you and the rest of your short sighted solipsistic lot take me and everyone and everything I care about down with you just to satisfy your asinine revolution fantasy.
If you want to commit suicide, just fucking do it. Don't bring other people into it, you selfish fuck.
I've never met a "let's shut everything down and start again" person who would actually have what it takes to live through a world like that for the amount of time it would take for things to get better.
As in, their entire lives.
[QUOTE=Govna;50281013]
And beyond that, in a black sort of way, I think it will be funny for Trump to win. It'll be a cute punishment for the American people and a cruel wake up sign for them, for being so fucking stupid as to allow the country to get this desperate in the first place. This honestly could have all been prevented, but the fact of the matter is it wasn't, we're to blame for not preventing it, and now we (hopefully) are going to pay the penalty for it and get what's deserved.[/QUOTE]
Good lord grow up man. It sure is a cute punishment for those with families and kids too have to live through civil unrest and economic disaster. I hate to tell you but the U.S isn't all that bad off. Of course there are things that really need to be improved, but that isn't going to be improved by totally going backwards on everything. Change is a gradual process in democracy. You don't burn it too the ground when the change you want isn't achieved right away. You keep working towards your goal. Its insane to suggest that because we didn't make the progress we wanted we should throw away all the progress we have made for some fantasy where progress somehow will be achieved due to the lack of it.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;50281425]Good lord grow up man. It sure is a cute punishment for those with families and kids too have to live through civil unrest and economic disaster. I hate to tell you but the U.S isn't all that bad off. Of course there are things that really need to be improved, but that isn't going to be improved by totally going backwards on everything. Change is a gradual process in democracy. You don't burn it too the ground when the change you want isn't achieved right away. You keep working towards your goal. Its insane to suggest that because we didn't make the progress we wanted we should throw away all the progress we have made for some fantasy where progress somehow will be achieved due to the lack of it.[/QUOTE]
"People will wake up and progressives will surge next time if progressives throw everyone else under the bus! It'll work! Trust me!"
[QUOTE=Govna;50281013]
If we can't change the system from within using a candidate like Sanders (who is a rarity of a opportunity, in terms of his honesty and record as a politician), then fuck it. We tried, we failed, time to adopt the nuclear approach-- which is guaranteed to produce results. It will definitely help destroy the old order of things.
.[/QUOTE]
Sanders , the man who would have saved the US, will be endorsing Clinton before long, not advocating the destruction of the system. Why is that?
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