On his bike and pedalling away: Lance Armstrong stripped of all 7 of his Tour de France victories an - Polidicks

But anecdotal evidence isn't sufficient in this case. If there's enough reason to strip him of all his titles, there better be solid evidence. In my mind, I have no doubt that he doped, but I'm not ready to publish that as fact without significant evidence beyond some eyewitness testimonies.

[QUOTE=Scotchair;38137553] His team-mate wrote a book about how the lot of them doped and it was "really easy" ... just because he passed all his tests doesn't mean he wasn't doping. I just think they were savvy enough about it that they never got caught, I don't think he could realistically do what he 's done without the aid of drugs or blood doping.[/QUOTE] If they can't chemically prove he was doping, they can go fuck themselves. They have spent nearly a decade putting together a shitload of what is ultimately feeble evidence and are pretending that their witch hunt has produced valid results. Either you have the blood results that prove he was doping or you don't.

[QUOTE=GunFox;38137610]If they can't chemically prove he was doping, they can go fuck themselves. They have spent nearly a decade putting together a shitload of what is ultimately feeble evidence and are pretending that their witch hunt has produced valid results. Either you have the blood results that prove he was doping or you don't.[/QUOTE] I know what you're saying, but I was just backing up my personal opinion as to why I think he was doping. I don't necessarily agree with him being stripped of his titles etc.

Oh well I'm sure he had a nice time whilst cycling, competing and winning those years ago. And he's done a lot for charities too, so that's pretty good as well.

[QUOTE=GunFox;38137610]If they can't chemically prove he was doping, they can go fuck themselves. They have spent nearly a decade putting together a shitload of what is ultimately feeble evidence and are pretending that their witch hunt has produced valid results. Either you have the blood results that prove he was doping or you don't.[/QUOTE] Didn't you read the part where its the strongest case brought against anyone involved? [I]"Usada released a 1,000-page report earlier this month which included sworn testimony from 26 people"[/I] Including his former teamates. The hypocrisy people are displaying in this thread is laughable. [editline]22nd October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=SCopE5000;38137893]And he's done a lot for charities too, so that's pretty good as well.[/QUOTE] So did Jimmy Savile. [editline]22nd October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=JeanLuc761;38137451]Seriously, how are they doing this and not showing us any concrete evidence? If he was doping then that's unfortunate, but I'm not about to take the UCI and McQuaid at their word; they've been on a witch hunt against Armstrong for years.[/QUOTE] Armstrong has never contested any charges against him. He's just trying to play it quiet as a defence. Even though 11 former team mates dropped him in it.

[QUOTE=latin_geek;38137192]I'd watch the Tour de France if everyone was allowed to use as many drugs as possible to win now that'd be fun[/QUOTE] The Roidolmpics

[QUOTE=NoDachi;38138042]Didn't you read the part where its the strongest case brought against anyone involved? [I]"Usada released a 1,000-page report earlier this month which included sworn testimony from 26 people"[/I] Including his former teamates. The hypocrisy people are displaying in this thread is laughable. [editline]22nd October 2012[/editline] [/QUOTE] Testimonies don't mean [b]shit[/b]. People saying that happened doesn't prove it happened, there could be ulterior motives or them seeing things that aren't there.

[QUOTE=FingerSpazem;38137322]And, you know, some exercise and train every fucking day...[/QUOTE] Yeah and I'm pretty sure using performance enhancers does not eliminate the need to exercise or train.

[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;38138125]Testimonies don't mean [b]shit[/b]. People saying that happened doesn't prove it happened, there could be ulterior motives or them seeing things that aren't there.[/QUOTE] Would you feel the same way if there were 26 testimonies against a Catholic priest?

[QUOTE=NoDachi;38138135]Would you feel the same way if there were 26 testimonies against a Catholic priest?[/QUOTE] Except Catholic priests don't engage in a [B]competition[/B], where tensions can be [B]high[/B] and conflicts [B]will[/B] arise.

[QUOTE=Pat4ever;38138214]Except Catholic priests don't engage in a [B]competition[/B], where tensions can be [B]high[/B] and conflicts [B]will[/B] arise.[/QUOTE] [I]A lot[/I] of people really dislike the Catholic Church and everything it stands for. Look at northern Ireland where tensions were so high, conflicts were raised and people died over it. So don't pull that bullshit card.

This thread has nothing to do with Northern Ireland, which was just a bunch of scumbags looking for a reason to fight each other anyway. I believe it's full blown retarded to do this to Lance at this point in his life.

I bet when he dies he'll be treated as a hero then. This is pretty damn backwards.

He should use his money to make a no questions asked cycling tour. Then we'd see some really impressive stuff.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;38138247][I]A lot[/I] of people really dislike the Catholic Church and everything it stands for. Look at northern Ireland where tensions were so high, conflicts were raised and people died over it. So don't pull that bullshit card.[/QUOTE] Don't bring up something you have no clue about mate, but regardless, I agree with the report, as I understood it the whole ship is sinking with regard to doping with numerous teammates giving confessions to save their own asses along with those that have already been charged and feel like bringing others down with them, It's a sad state of affairs and I don't feel that lance deserves to go unpunished, just because doping in cycling is epidemic doesn't mean you can get away with it when caught even if you are essentially the face of it. [quote]USADA said the evidence includes "direct documentary evidence including financial payments, emails, scientific data and laboratory test results that further prove the use, possession and distribution of performance enhancing drugs by Lance Armstrong and confirm the disappointing truth about the deceptive activities of the USPS Team, a team that received tens of millions of American taxpayer dollars in funding."[/quote] [url]http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cycling/2012/10/10/lance-armstrong-usada-reasoned-decision-george-hincapie/1625607/[/url]

[QUOTE=Mabus;38138501]Don't bring up something you have no clue about mate[/QUOTE] My point was the prove how stupid that type of logic was. But obviously, asking for reading comprehension on facepunch is pointless.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;38138042]Didn't you read the part where its the strongest case brought against anyone involved? [I]"Usada released a 1,000-page report earlier this month which included sworn testimony from 26 people"[/I] Including his former teamates. The hypocrisy people are displaying in this thread is laughable. [/QUOTE] Yes, I did indeed read that part. It is the least useful evidence possible. Eyewitness accounts are great for convincing juries, but the accuracy of any testimony, especially about events that could have occurred well over a decade ago, is functionally useless. Any cop or lawyer will tell you that eyewitness accounts are what you use to get real evidence if you are lucky, they are not themselves actually all that useful. The fact that they laud their testimony over actual forensic evidence speaks volumes.

[QUOTE=GunFox;38138584]Yes, I did indeed read that part. It is the least useful evidence possible. Eyewitness accounts are great for convincing juries, but the accuracy of any testimony, especially about events that could have occurred well over a decade ago, is functionally useless. Any cop or lawyer will tell you that eyewitness accounts are what you use to get real evidence if you are lucky, they are not themselves actually all that useful.[/QUOTE] Yes but these are also former team mates that were complicit in the doping, and admitting to it. These are simply not bi-standers witnessing a mugging.

"oh no my millions and millions and millions of money is gone" "no it isnt lance" "oh okay"

[QUOTE=NoDachi;38138603]Yes but these are also former team mates that were complicit in the doping, and admitting to it. These are simply not bi-standers witnessing a mugging.[/QUOTE] Who says they aren't doing this out of spite? Who says that what they saw was what actually happened? [QUOTE=NoDachi;38138135]Would you feel the same way if there were 26 testimonies against a Catholic priest?[/QUOTE] Ofcourse I would.

[QUOTE=Canned Induvidual;38136818]My take on the sport: Fear and loathing in France[/QUOTE] Bicycling and Other Drugs

[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;38139380]Who says they aren't doing this out of spite? Who says that what they saw was what actually happened?[/QUOTE] because it's not just armstrong that is getting in shit for this. He's just the highest profile so he's getting all the media attention. Other people are being stripped. They're just trying to purge the endemic doping in the sports. And it's not what ~they had seen~, but rather "look we were doing this aswell, this is how we did it, this is how we got away with it".

[QUOTE=Ylsid;38138434]He should use his money to make a no questions asked cycling tour. Then we'd see some really impressive stuff.[/QUOTE] the only rule: you [b]must[/b] dope

[QUOTE=GunFox;38137610]If they can't chemically prove he was doping, they can go fuck themselves. They have spent nearly a decade putting together a shitload of what is ultimately feeble evidence and are pretending that their witch hunt has produced valid results. Either you have the blood results that prove he was doping or you don't.[/QUOTE] I haven't been paying [I]that[/I] much attention to this but is it like the claims those Chinese athletes cheated during the Olympics? Like, its so advanced they just know its happening but they cannot prove it. You have to wonder, if this was all a trial going through a court of law if it would stand up. It does seem to be all based on highly circumstantial evidence and a witch hunt.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;38138135]Would you feel the same way if there were 26 testimonies against a Catholic priest?[/QUOTE] Without concrete evidence I would feel equally sketchy about it to be honest. I am not saying he [B]must[/B] be innocent, its just the fact that it lacks any real evidence beyond testimonials. [editline]22nd October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=ShaunOfTheLive;38139508]the only rule: you [b]must[/b] dope[/QUOTE] So pretty much the Tour de France?

[QUOTE=Jsm;38139529]Without concrete evidence I would feel equally sketchy about it to be honest. I am not saying he [B]must[/B] be innocent, its just the fact that it lacks any real evidence beyond testimonials.[/QUOTE] Yes but [I]"As requested by the sport's governing body, the UCI, Usada has now sent them its 'reasoned decision' as to how it found the seven-time Tour de France champion guilty of running a systematic doping ring. It has also sent 1,000 pages of eye-witness testimony, [B]lab results, scientific data, emails and financial records, evidence Tygart describes as overwhelming, conclusive and undeniable[/B]."[/I]

Once again France has the most winning cyclist of all time! (together with Belgium and Spain). On a more serious note, Lance Armstrong was the king of the sport in the years when all others were convicted of doping, he was basically just the latest one to go down. Just check the statistics of how many that were doped in the years 1999-2005: [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France#Doping_histories_of_Top-10_finishers.2C_1998_-_2012"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France#Doping_histories_of_Top-10_finishers.2C_1998_-_2012[/URL] Just look at how many other tour winners that were either convicted or later admitted their guilt in those years: [img]http://niggaupload.com/images/Sj4k2.png[/img] I don't really know how people can be so naive that they can believe that one guy beat all the other drug users so many years in a row without using drugs himself.

Is the report available anywhere?

[QUOTE=NoDachi;38139419]because it's not just armstrong that is getting in shit for this. He's just the highest profile so he's getting all the media attention. Other people are being stripped. They're just trying to purge the endemic doping in the sports. And it's not what ~they had seen~, but rather "look we were doing this aswell, this is how we did it, this is how we got away with it".[/QUOTE]Technically, that result is still fairly similar to how some of the [i]actual[/i] witch hunts turned out way back when. Person gets singled out, and is told that if they rat out fellow witches/warlocks their punishment will be less severe and they may even be able to walk away from it. Person claims that several other people are witches/warlocks in an attempt to save his own skin, and provides testimony against them as well as anything else needed to build a good case. Everyone that person accused is given the same deal that he was given. Snowball effect happens, and eventually everyone of any notability supposedly had unprotected sex with the devil while seventeen other people watched.

[QUOTE=Pennywise;38150719]Technically, that result is still fairly similar to how some of the [i]actual[/i] witch hunts turned out way back when. Person gets singled out, and is told that if they rat out fellow witches/warlocks their punishment will be less severe and they may even be able to walk away from it. Person claims that several other people are witches/warlocks in an attempt to save his own skin, and provides testimony against them as well as anything else needed to build a good case. Everyone that person accused is given the same deal that he was given. Snowball effect happens, and eventually everyone of any notability supposedly had unprotected sex with the devil while seventeen other people watched.[/QUOTE] So you believe this is all some bizarre conspiracy theory to strip armstrong, one of the sports greatest publiciser for no real reason? Or the fact that he's just another cheat. occam's razor [editline]23rd October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Zephyrs;38148294]Is the report available anywhere?[/QUOTE] [url]http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/[/url]