Israel to ask U.S. for $20billion extra in military aid because of Middle East turmoil - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Miskav;28525166]Your claim that something is okay just because not every single person fitting the description gets the treatment[/QUOTE] Wait, wait, wait. STOP. I never said it was OK. I never said it was acceptable. The real problem I was referring was that LocalFlavor was treating the issue as if it was totally and completely OBVIOUS that every single one of the palestinian teenagers (or most of them) were getting strip searched and laughed at while they were crossing the checkpoint. What kind of evidence does he have to confirm this? Does the Israeli military include "stripping teenagers and laughing at them" as a part of their procedure? Or are all Israeli soldiers just naturally evil? There.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;28525212]I don't understand what do you mean by "because of the population you're oppressing had enough"?[/QUOTE] You really don't see that the Israeli's are oppressing the Palestinians? Gee.. 1) Driving them out of their homes 2) Denying a multitude of things necessary in modern life (No, I don't count being better than Africa sufficient) 3) Multiple counts of slaughter, destruction, and not to mention the uncountable cases of Israel's role in Palestinian deaths. 4) Rigging "Peace" summits so that you get the upper hand, and the oppressed get off worse. I could go on.

[QUOTE=Miskav;28525201]One was done under the false assumption that Jews were inferior The Other is done because of the population you're oppressing had enough. I can't see a lesser evil in there.[/QUOTE] Bullocks in a hat, I say. They only reason they became "oppressed" in the first place was because of the actions they took. The Israelis built the wall to stop the smuggling of weapons in and suicide bombers out, not because of "oh it would be SOOOO hilarious to just oppress those palestinians."

[QUOTE=Glorbo;28525223]Wait, wait, wait. STOP. I never said it was OK. I never said it was acceptable. The real problem I was referring was that LocalFlavor was treating the issue as if it was totally and completely OBVIOUS that every single one of the palestinian teenagers (or most of them) were getting strip searched and laughed at while they were crossing the checkpoint. What kind of evidence does he have to confirm this? Does the Israeli military include "stripping teenagers and laughing at them" as a part of their procedure? Or are all Israeli soldiers just naturally evil? There.[/QUOTE] Fair enough, though the fact you even need security checkpoints like that stems from the oppression. [editline]10th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Glorbo;28525246]Bullocks in a hat, I say. They only reason they became "oppressed" in the first place was because of the actions they took. The Israelis built the wall to stop the smuggling of weapons in and suicide bombers out, not because of "oh it would be SOOOO hilarious to just oppress those palestinians."[/QUOTE] Yes because it's the wall that was Israel's first crime against humanity. Okay.

[QUOTE=Miskav;28525235]You really don't see that the Israeli's are oppressing the Palestinians? Gee.. 1) Driving them out of their homes 2) Denying a multitude of things necessary in modern life (No, I don't count being better than Africa sufficient) 3) Multiple counts of slaughter, destruction, and not to mention the uncountable cases of Israel's role in Palestinian deaths. 4) Rigging "Peace" summits so that you get the upper hand, and the oppressed get off worse. I could go on.[/QUOTE] What's this got to do with the reason why Israeli security forces make sure Palestinians entering Israel don't have bombs on them?

[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28525214]I'm assuming the purposely embarrassing him part is also part of the bomb checking? [/QUOTE] Of course because, again, as we all know, every single palestinian gets stripped naked and laughed at at the checkpoint. [editline]10th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Miskav;28525250] Yes because it's the wall that was Israel's first crime against humanity. Okay.[/QUOTE] What was the first one?

[QUOTE=Starpluck;28524419]I really hate to ban pro-Israelis as naturally people wil falsely accuse my moderation of being politically motivated, but this guy was pushing it.[/QUOTE] Justified ban. Good work.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;28525269]What's this got to do with the reason why Israeli security forces make sure Palestinians entering Israel don't have bombs on them?[/QUOTE] Ask yourself WHY they want to bring bombs with them. Hint: It's the above.

[QUOTE=Miskav;28525319]Ask yourself WHY they want to bring bombs with them. Hint: It's the above.[/QUOTE] Oh god, not this Warhol logic again. Are you actually trying to justify suicide bombers?

[img]http://ralphplsgo.com/images/ralph-pls-go2.jpg[/img] no

[QUOTE=Miskav;28525319]Ask yourself WHY they want to bring bombs with them. Hint: It's the above.[/QUOTE] Take a minute to stop and think about what you're proposing here. The palestinians smuggle bombs with them because of the wall... And the Israelis built the wall because the palestinians smuggle bombs with them. This is a closed cycle. And the ones to blame for it are the ones who started it. Here is my question- If you think Israel is to blame for this, why would they start this cycle in the first place? Are you really saying that they built a massive concrete wall (that, mind you, costs them MONEY to produce) for absolutely no reason at all but to "oppress" palestinians?

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;28525335]Oh god, not this Warhol logic again. Are you actually trying to justify suicide bombers?[/QUOTE] Are you trying to justify reason they do it? I agree that suicide bombing, or harming innocents isn't the way, but your side isn't exactly being nice in that respect either. They're both equally wrong, the only difference is, one caused the other. [editline]10th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Glorbo;28525359]Take a minute to stop and think what you're proposing here. The palestinians smuggle bombs with them because of the wall... And the Israelis built the wall because the palestinians smuggle bombs with them. This is a closed cycle. And the ones to blame for it are the ones who started it. Here is my question- If you think Israel is to blame for this, why would they start this cycle in the first place?[/QUOTE] Let me ask you the same question: If you think Palestine is to blame for this, why would they start a cycle that will obviously lead to their own downfall? As for why Israel started it, who knows? They wanted the land, they don't want a multicultural state? there can be a myriad of reasons, though no good ones.

[QUOTE=Miskav;28525367]Are you trying to justify reason they do it? I agree that suicide bombing, or harming innocents isn't the way, but your side isn't exactly being nice in that respect either. They're both equally wrong, the only difference is, one caused the other. [editline]10th March 2011[/editline] Let me ask you the same question: If you think Palestine is to blame for this, why would they start a cycle that will obviously lead to their own downfall? [/QUOTE] Because they want the Jews out of Israel. Israelis couldn't give two shits about the land in Gaza. They don't need it. Only the die-hard, religious-nationalist nutjobs actually want the land that is in Gaza. The rest of the people in Israel just want to be safe. [QUOTE=Miskav;28525367]there can be a myriad of reasons, though no good ones[/QUOTE] "The rest of the people in Israel just want to be safe." There we go.

[QUOTE=Miskav;28525367]As for why Israel started it, who knows? They wanted the land, they don't want a multicultural state? there can be a myriad of reasons, though no good ones.[/QUOTE] Can't be "wanted the land"; The Israelis agreed to the UN's resolution on the borders of the two states, the Arabs didn't and started the war against Israel, Israel didn't need any more land than what was given to them by the UN. Can't be "they don't want a multicultural state"; When Israel was created, all Arabs withing its borders got full citizenship. The reasons you gave, however, apply directly as to why the Arabs would want to start the conflict. Land: The Arabs didn't agree with the UN's resolution regarding the formation of Israel and an Arab state in Palestine, they attacked Israel because they wanted more land for themselves. No multicultural state: The Arabs wouldn't even agree if all of Palestine was a single democratic state, meaning they'd own it since they had many more people back then, however, that'd also mean they'd have to live near Jews and that was something they couldn't accept, they wanted all the Jews to get out of Palestine.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;28525435]Can't be "wanted the land"; The Israelis agreed to the UN's resolution on the borders of the two states, the Arabs didn't and started the war against Israel, Israel didn't need any more land than what was given to them by the UN. Can't be "they don't want a multicultural state"; When Israel was created, all Arabs withing its borders got full citizenship. The reasons you gave, however, apply directly as to why the Arabs would want to start the conflict. Land: The Arabs didn't agree with the UN's resolution regarding the formation of Israel and an Arab state in Palestine, they attacked Israel because they wanted more land for themselves. No multicultural state: The Arabs wouldn't even agree if all of Palestine was a single democratic state, meaning they'd own it since they had many more people back then, however, that'd also mean they'd have to live near Jews and that was something they couldn't accept, they wanted all the Jews to get out of Palestine.[/QUOTE] Fair enough, I yield on this subject.

[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28520879]Here's a crazy idea Gunfox and Silent-boble, why not take the research and production costs put into things like Uzi's and Anti-missile system and spend it on things like cancer research?[/QUOTE] The laser tech does get turned around in used in medical equipment. Lasers have a lot of applications, but generally only military research budgets can afford to advance in that area. So people who get tumors removed via various laser applications can, to a large degree, thank military laser research. Furthermore, the mortar/missile defense laser would have been able to defend cities in South Korea from being shelled by the North. A defense grid of such devices would basically force NK to the diplomatic table. Potentially saving millions of lives.

I hope this backfires on Israel, as it can potentially make a lot people realize what a bunch of leaches they are. Israel's always sucking on someone's teat. First it was the British and now its us, gtfo fff

They need the money if the Muslim world decide to go ape shit on their ass. Or to bomb some home without any reasons since they are evil jews? Meh doesn't matter any more.

[QUOTE=Brage Nyman;28527845]They need the money if the Muslim world decide to go ape shit on their ass. Or to bomb some home without any reasons since they are evil jews? Meh doesn't matter any more.[/QUOTE] They have more than enough money and military tech to "protect" themselves from Muslims who shoot glorified bottle-rockets at them. Fuck if anything, they need to get their asses kicked a bit like Germany and Japan did. Sometimes you need to get some sense knocked into to you and yes its unfortunate that most likely will mean that innocent people suffer the most.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;28525222]I've never heard of security guards purposely embarrassing people in such a way, can you prove your claim?[/QUOTE] Saw it. So no. But just go ahead and deny it. Israel has never done anything wrong, right?

[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28536117]Saw it. So no. But just go ahead and deny it. Israel has never done anything wrong, right?[/QUOTE] Yeah because I know exactly everything Israel ever did that's wrong, right? If you have proof that it happened just post it here, no use trash talking and being sarcastic to prove your point.

The fact that you, in EVERY single Israel thread A: attempt to justify everything and B: sometimes flat out deny any wrong doing has been done kinda shows what a fuckwit you are. To play games with human rights violations is something that doesn't deserve respect.

Except he doesn't do that and you're just pissing around trying to sidestep the fact you don't have any substantive material. "I don't have proof but you're bad" isn't an valid argument. [QUOTE=Miskav;28525367]Are you trying to justify reason they do it? I agree that suicide bombing, or harming innocents isn't the way, but your side isn't exactly being nice in that respect either. They're both equally wrong, the only difference is, one caused the other.[/QUOTE] Uh no there's no justification for suicide bombing with the intent of harming civilians ever. "He started it" is a pathetically childish line to take.

[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;28541788]Except he doesn't do that and you're just pissing around trying to sidestep the fact you don't have any substantive material. "I don't have proof but you're bad" isn't an valid argument.[/quote] You really should learn to read. I already said i had no proof. I was commenting on Burnemdowns disgusting opinions. Which ironically you seem to share. You have a nasty habit of valiantly defending Israel and the US. Hmmm, lets see. he defended the massacre of the Gaza flotilla. Denied anything wrong is going on in Gaza. Defended the soldier who unloaded a full magazine into that child. Defended the Israeli's harvesting organs of the dead without consent. Defended the artillery strikes on TWO UN buildings and assorted others. He has a history of basically defending every fucked up action Israel does. [quote]Uh no there's no justification for suicide bombing with the intent of harming civilians ever. "He started it" is a pathetically childish line to take.[/QUOTE] Neither is creating an apartheid state and committing human rights abuses because you want a Jewish state. [editline]11th March 2011[/editline] The idea of defending yourself against an aggressive entity isn't a policy of "he started it"

[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28542088]Defended the soldier who unloaded a [b]full magazine into that child[/b]. Defended the Israeli's [b]harvesting organs of the dead without consent[/b]. [/QUOTE] Whoa, whoa, WHOA. Citation Fucking Needed there pal.

[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/21/israeli-pathologists-harvested-organs[/url] [url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/nov/16/israel2[/url] [editline]11th March 2011[/editline] Which by the way, the guy who did it and got off of it was proud to have done it.

Damn jews [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Trolling/Dumb reply" - Starpluck))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28542088] Neither is creating an apartheid state and committing human rights abuses because you want a Jewish state.[/QUOTE] Calling Israel an apartheid state is kind of stretching the term here. I agree, a lot of Israelis treat arabs differently than they treat jews. But can you really blame them? It's not like they're doing it because they need something to hate, they're doing it because "these guys" started several wars with them and have been bombing civilians for the last 20 to 30 years. But in terms of the law, there aren't any laws that say "Jews can do this and Arabs can't", and if they do exist they exist to stop religious idiots on both sides from killing one another.

[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28542088]You really should learn to read. I already said i had no proof. I was commenting on Burnemdowns disgusting opinions. Which ironically you seem to share. You have a nasty habit of valiantly defending Israel and the US. Hmmm, lets see. he defended the massacre of the Gaza flotilla. Denied anything wrong is going on in Gaza. Defended the soldier who unloaded a full magazine into that child. Defended the Israeli's harvesting organs of the dead without consent. Defended the artillery strikes on TWO UN buildings and assorted others. He has a history of basically defending every fucked up action Israel does. Neither is creating an apartheid state and committing human rights abuses because you want a Jewish state. [editline]11th March 2011[/editline] The idea of defending yourself against an aggressive entity isn't a policy of "he started it"[/QUOTE] You tried to turn the argument into "BurnEmDown claims Israel never does anything wrong" when it was about your claims, in order to deflect. Aside from that, you're wrong - BurnEmDown has criticised Israeli government policies/actions before, he just doesn't think they're the Great Satan like most of this forum. Massacre's contested. Still. He doesn't deny anything's wrong in Gaza, he gives reasons for Israeli actions. If you're talking about the school attack, there was still no evidence that it was anything other than negligence, rather than malice-based. I'LL SAY IT AGAIN. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR DELIBERATE TARGETING OF CIVILIANS. DELIBERATE TARGETING OF CIVILIANS IS NOT A LEGITIMATE FORM OF COUNTER-ATTACK, EVEN IF THE OTHER SIDE DOES IT (which they don't - if Israel deliberately targeted Palestinians as a policy, Gaza wouldn't exist).

[QUOTE=Glorbo;28542271]Calling Israel an apartheid state is kind of stretching the term here. I agree, a lot of Israelis treat arabs differently than they treat jews. But can you really blame them? It's not like they're doing it because they need something to hate, they're doing it because "these guys" started several wars with them and have been bombing civilians for the last 20 to 30 years. But in terms of the law, there aren't any laws that say "Jews can do this and Arabs can't", and if they do exist they exist to stop religious idiots on both sides from killing one another.[/QUOTE] Justifying racism... lolk When you have an oppressed people, they tend to not like being, y'know, oppressed.