Israel to ask U.S. for $20billion extra in military aid because of Middle East turmoil - Polidicks

'cos throwing money at your problems works

[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28542230][url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/21/israeli-pathologists-harvested-organs[/url] [url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/nov/16/israel2[/url] [/QUOTE] As to the first article- "Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of [b]Israeli soldiers[/b], [b]Israeli citizens[/b], Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives. Didn't mention this little tidbit, did ya? Of course it was a criminal act, of course it was wrong, and the people involved in this activity should definitely go to jail. But you're trying to spin this off as if their organs were harvested BECAUSE they were Palestinian. As to the second article, I will say this- There is no comparison between individual Israeli soldiers disobeying their nation's rules of engagement to Hamas & Palestinians doctrine's & beliefs such atrocities; the written doctrine shows the nature of a system, not an individual that follows it [editline]11th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28542393] When you have an oppressed people, they tend to not like being, y'know, oppressed.[/QUOTE] Again with this fucking argument. They wouldn't have been "oppressed" in the first place if they didn't try to harm Israeli civilians.

Anyone post the wikileaks document yet about them keeping the Palestinians poor?

[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;28542300]You tried to turn the argument into "BurnEmDown claims Israel never does anything wrong" when it was about your claims, in order to deflect. Aside from that, you're wrong - BurnEmDown has criticised Israeli government policies/actions before, he just doesn't think they're the Great Satan like most of this forum.[/quote] He admitted to one mess up, once. And the amount of bullshit he pilled on it was disgraceful. Deflect what? What argument? [quote]Massacre's contested. Still. He doesn't deny anything's wrong in Gaza, he gives reasons for Israeli actions. If you're talking about the school attack, there was still no evidence that it was anything other than negligence, rather than malice-based. [/quote] Negligence can be just as bad as malice. If you choose to ignore surroundings, ie a hospital, with little evidence that there is any wrong doing there. Then yes, it's not malice, it's negligence. But many innocent people were killed because of it and it's just as fucking bad. which btw, they got only a slap on the wrist - again. [quote]I'LL SAY IT AGAIN. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR DELIBERATE TARGETING OF CIVILIANS. DELIBERATE TARGETING OF CIVILIANS IS NOT A LEGITIMATE FORM OF COUNTER-ATTACK, EVEN IF THE OTHER SIDE DOES IT (which they don't - if Israel deliberately targeted Palestinians as a policy, Gaza wouldn't exist).[/QUOTE] Israeli's don't deliberately fire on Palestinians? I think a main issue here is that they just don't care. Call it Malice, Negligence or pure uncaring, it still is a human rights violation. No one is defending the attacks from Hamas, but if Israel wants them to stop, they need to stop provoking it.

[QUOTE=Sniping Robot;28542409]'cos throwing money at your problems works[/QUOTE] Cluster bombs might! (if you use enough)

[QUOTE=Glorbo;28542422]As to the first article- "Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of [b]Israeli soldiers[/b], [b]Israeli citizens[/b], Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives. Didn't mention this little tidbit, did ya? Of course it was a criminal act. Of course it was wrong. But you're trying to spin this off as if their organs were harvested BECAUSE they were Palestinian.[/quote] That's a strawman. I never once implied they harvested organs because they were Palestinian. And Israel has before turned against their own people, including many leftists, for example in Tel Aviv. [quote]As to the second article, I will say this- There is no comparison between individual Israeli soldiers disobeying their nation's rules of engagement to Hamas & Palestinians doctrine's & beliefs such atrocities; the written doctrine shows the nature of a system, not an individual that follows it[/quote] This makes absolutely no sense. rewritepls [quote]Again with this fucking argument. They wouldn't have been "oppressed" in the first place if they didn't try to harm Israeli civilians.[/QUOTE] And they wouldn't be pissed off if they didn't steal the land and slaughter the settlers.

[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28542481] And they wouldn't be pissed off if they didn't steal the land and slaughter the settlers.[/QUOTE] What land theft exactly took place? Just because theres a Jewish sovereignty on a geographical area doesn't mean anyone owning land there suddenly loses it, or gives away his ownership. He just has to pay his taxes to the new state that he is in-Just because you've got a new boss, doesn't mean you suddenly lose your job, does it? Nobody took their lands. Nobody "stole" anything.

[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28542441]Israeli's don't deliberately fire on Palestinians? I think a main issue here is that they just don't care. Call it Malice, Negligence or pure uncaring, it still is a human rights violation. No one is defending the attacks from Hamas, but if Israel wants them to stop, they need to stop provoking it.[/QUOTE] 2005-2007: No Israeli occupation on Gaza, no Israeli blockade on Gaza, no Israeli military action in Gaza, only security checks on the Israeli-Gaza borders which are obviously reasonable. Yet rocket attacks from Gaza into Israel have just increased. What more can Israel do? Are we provoking these attacks by just existing? Because according to Hamas, we do.

[QUOTE=MoarFunz;28512692]ITT : Facepunch hating on Israel. Shut the fuck up already, if you don't live here, you don't know shit.[/QUOTE] More like ITT: Israel asking 20 billions from a country with 14 trillion in debt. Should I say anything more? [url]http://www.usdebtclock.org/[/url] Is this right?

[QUOTE=Brage Nyman;28527845]They need the money if the Muslim world decide to go ape shit on their ass. Or to bomb some home without any reasons since they are evil jews? Meh doesn't matter any more.[/QUOTE] See, the trouble with living a sheltered life in a first-world country (Which I'm assuming you do) Is that you start thinking of different ideologies and peoples around the world with a very black and white view. The only reason Arabs hate Jews - the ONLY reason the Muslim world is angry with Israel - is because of what Israelis are doing to Palestinians. [editline]11th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;28542594]2005-2007: No Israeli occupation on Gaza, no Israeli blockade on Gaza, no Israeli military action in Gaza, only security checks on the Israeli-Gaza borders which are obviously reasonable. Yet rocket attacks from Gaza into Israel have just increased. What more can Israel do? Are we provoking these attacks by just existing? Because according to Hamas, we do.[/QUOTE] And what happened BEFORE 05-07?

[QUOTE=archangel125;28543054]See, the trouble with living a sheltered life in a first-world country (Which I'm assuming you do) Is that you start thinking of different ideologies and peoples around the world with a very black and white view. The only reason Arabs hate Jews - the ONLY reason the Muslim world is angry with Israel - is because of what Israelis are doing to Palestinians. [editline]11th March 2011[/editline] And what happened BEFORE 05-07?[/QUOTE] Israel occupied Gaza since '67, in the 90's they started causing some heavy shit and then in '05 we left them alone, but they continued to mess things up, because they're not satisfied with the Gaza Strip, they want all of Israel for themselves. In that case, there's nothing we can do to satisfy them, they're just going to have to realize that what they're asking for is impossible and stop, and until hen, we'll keep defending ourselves. If they really wanted peace, they would have stopped in '05, it's as simple as that.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;28543282]Israel occupied Gaza since '67, in the 90's they started causing some heavy shit and then in '05 we left them alone, but they continued to mess things up, because they're not satisfied with the Gaza Strip, they want all of Israel for themselves. In that case, there's nothing we can do to satisfy them, they're just going to have to realize that what they're asking for is impossible and stop, and until hen, we'll keep defending ourselves. If they really wanted peace, they would have stopped in '05, it's as simple as that.[/QUOTE] So you fuck someone's shit up for over a decade, give them a little peace for one year, and then expect them to forgive you? Have you also noticed the the Gaza strip is as shitty a piece of land as they come?

[QUOTE=archangel125;28543312]So you fuck someone's shit up for over a decade, give them a little peace for one year, and then expect them to forgive you? Have you also noticed the the Gaza strip is as shitty a piece of land as they come?[/QUOTE] Hey man I never heard of no Jews doing anything to any Germans after '45.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;28543361]Hey man I never heard of no Jews doing anything to any Germans after '45.[/QUOTE] Why would they? The Germans were penalized and punished in every way possible after the defeat of the Axis. The Jews later got their dream fulfilled, a Jewish State as a result. They would have no reason to do anything to Germany afterwords with all those repercussions and benefits in place.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;28543780]Why would they? The Germans were penalized and punished in every way possible after the defeat of the Axis. The Jews later got their dream fulfilled, a Jewish State as a result. They would have no reason to do anything to Germany afterwords with all those repercussions and benefits in place.[/QUOTE] If the people of Gaza wanted monetary repariations they could have asked, instead they chose to use terror. The fact is that they want all of Israel gone, and you just can't accept that.

[QUOTE=archangel125;28543312]So you fuck someone's shit up for over a decade, give them a little peace for one year, and then expect them to forgive you? Have you also noticed the the Gaza strip is as shitty a piece of land as they come?[/QUOTE] Yeah, it's not a very sustainable piece of land. Would think they would have to merge into Egypt or join with the West Bank to be any kind of reasonable state. Not so much that it's a shitty piece of land as it's mostly city with not enough land to feed everyone. They would have to be in a lot of trade relations with everyone just to bring in the food and that will probably cost a lot of money. Yeah, something new will have to be figured out with them. Too bad they aren't even rational right now. [editline]12th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;28543875]If the people of Gaza wanted monetary repariations they could have asked, instead they chose to use terror. The fact is that they want all of Israel gone, and you just can't accept that.[/QUOTE] Mmm I think it's just the administration in charge of Gaza that feels that way. I'm sure there would be some in the population thinking the same way but most either don't care, don't want to be involved in the fighting or can't do anything because Hamas are lunatics.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;28543875]If the people of Gaza wanted monetary repariations they could have asked, instead they chose to use terror. The fact is that they want all of Israel gone, and you just can't accept that.[/QUOTE] "They could have just asked", that's just beyond belief.

Pals been asking for settlement construction to cease for quite a while, Israeli govt. never really complied.

Oh look we're back into this bullshit cycle welp ITN is dead to me now.

why are we so poor! I DON'T UNDERSTAND, WHERE IS OUR MONEY GOING? oh wait

[QUOTE=Glorbo;28542422]As to the first article- "Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of [b]Israeli soldiers[/b], [b]Israeli citizens[/b], Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives. Didn't mention this little tidbit, did ya? Of course it was a criminal act, of course it was wrong, and the people involved in this activity should definitely go to jail. But you're trying to spin this off as if their organs were harvested BECAUSE they were Palestinian. As to the second article, I will say this- There is no comparison between individual Israeli soldiers disobeying their nation's rules of engagement to Hamas & Palestinians doctrine's & beliefs such atrocities; the written doctrine shows the nature of a system, not an individual that follows it [editline]11th March 2011[/editline] Again with this fucking argument. They wouldn't have been "oppressed" in the first place if they didn't try to harm Israeli civilians.[/QUOTE] they wouldn't be oppressed if israel didn't exist

I like how all the people arguing for Israel live in Israel...

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;28542594]2005-2007: No Israeli occupation on Gaza, no Israeli blockade on Gaza, no Israeli military action in Gaza, only security checks on the Israeli-Gaza borders which are obviously reasonable. Yet rocket attacks from Gaza into Israel have just increased. What more can Israel do? Are we provoking these attacks by just existing? Because according to Hamas, we do.[/QUOTE] Lets see, increased settlements, That giant fucking wall surrounding the west bank and Gaza, the pretty much abusive actions of border guards and adding to that, you really think inaction is cause for people to think to stop responding against many many years of Israeli aggression? [editline]13th March 2011[/editline] Nice to see your apologist flaps showing. [editline]13th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;28543282]Israel occupied Gaza since '67, in the 90's they started causing some heavy shit and then in '05 we left them alone, but they continued to mess things up, because they're not satisfied with the Gaza Strip, they want all of Israel for themselves. In that case, there's nothing we can do to satisfy them, they're just going to have to realize that what they're asking for is impossible and stop, and until hen, we'll keep defending ourselves. If they really wanted peace, they would have stopped in '05, it's as simple as that.[/QUOTE] Saying 'they stopped ENTIRELY' in 2005 is pretty subjective, got any proof for that? [editline]13th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Z Overlord;28556013]I like how all the people arguing for Israel live in Israel...[/QUOTE] That or are American/British military apologists.

[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28587155]Lets see, increased settlements, That giant fucking wall surrounding the west bank and Gaza, the pretty much abusive actions of border guards and adding to that, you really think inaction is cause for people to think to stop responding against many many years of Israeli aggression? [editline]13th March 2011[/editline] Nice to see your apologist flaps showing.[/QUOTE] The wall around Gaza was there long before 2005. The wall around the West Bank was there since ~2006 and reduced the number of successful suicide bombings by more than 90%. The action taken by border guards also contributed to the successful reduction of suicide bombings. So yeah dude, still got you beat on the "who started it" contest. And holding a grudge isn't justification for terrorist attacks. Edit: And the Gaza fence also reduced suicide bombers and other infiltrators from getting into Israel.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;28543361]Hey man I never heard of no Jews doing anything to any Germans after '45.[/QUOTE] You know what the Nuremberg trials were, right?

[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28587235]You know what the Nuremberg trials were, right?[/QUOTE] Yeah because trials are the same as terror attacks right? Edit: and also, those were conducted by the allies, not the Jews.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;28587229]The wall around Gaza was there long before 2005.[/quote] so fucking what? [quote]The wall around the West Bank was there since ~2006 and reduced the number of successful suicide bombings by more than 90%.[/quote] The barrier didn't just go up entirely in 2006, you still have massive portions of it built around. ie Abu Dis wall. And you still after years of saying that, you still haven't proven that. [quote]The action taken by border guards also contributed to the successful reduction of suicide bombings.[/quote] Publicly humiliating people and tying children to cars as shields isn't preventing many suicide bombings, is it? [quote]So yeah dude, still got you beat on the "who started it" contest. And holding a grudge isn't justification for terrorist attacks.[/QUOTE] lol, it isn't about 'who started it' it's about who fucking keeps doing it. 60+ years of straight abuse by the Israelis kinda pisses people off. [editline]13th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;28587326]Yeah because trials are the same as terror attacks right? Edit: and also, those were conducted by the allies, not the Jews.[/QUOTE] In defence of the jews.

[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28587336]so fucking what? The barrier didn't just go up entirely in 2006, you still have massive portions of it built around. ie Abu Dis wall. And you still after years of saying that, you still haven't proven that.[/quote] It took quite some time to build it. Construction started in 2003 but until 2006 there were still suicide attacks, in 2006 it was considered to be big enough to stop suicide attacks, and it's still not completed by the way, they just stopped building it as fast as before. Don't understand what you meant in the second sentence. [quote]Publicly humiliating people and tying children to cars as shields isn't preventing many suicide bombings, is it?[/quote] No but military action as a whole does. [quote]lol, it isn't about 'who started it' it's about who fucking keeps doing it. 60+ years of straight abuse by the Israelis kinda pisses people off.[/quote] Obviously it's not only about that but as long as they keep sending suicide bombers, launch rockets at us, etc., we'll keep up with the actions we deem necessary to keep ourselves protected. [quote]In defence of the jews.[/QUOTE] So? We didn't do it. And again, these trials are not even close to the terror attacks conducted by Palestinians. Edit: Do we have another Warhol on our hands here or what?

Win the hearts and minds of the Palestinians you stole land from by bombing hospitals and schools.

[QUOTE=Z Overlord;28556013]I like how all the people arguing for Israel live in Israel...[/QUOTE] I don't live in Israel, and I support them! Go get 'em BurnEmDown!