Barack Obama vows to pursue gun measures in wake of latest massacre - Polidicks

[QUOTE=RobbL;36946291]That wouldn't be a problem is their was a greater level of democracy. I'm going off on a tangent here, but why does everyone see the government and the people having to always be completely separate and distant? What's wrong with blurring the line between them?[/QUOTE] Because the government will always be separate from the people because the government is entrusted with much more power than any single person. I'm not sure you understand the government at all. Your statement was idealistic bullshit that means nothing.

[QUOTE=notlabbet;36946713]whats the argument for owning an assault weapon?[/QUOTE] The entire point of the second amendment is to provide firearms capable of killing soldiers to civilians.

Most people will agree that the bullet on the left is more dangerous than the one on the right, would they not? [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/v92ABl.jpg[/IMG]

What happens when the civilian arms industry is shut down? [editline]26th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=GunFox;36946759]The entire point of the second amendment is to provide firearms capable of killing soldiers to civilians.[/QUOTE] What about tanks and aircraft?

[QUOTE=NoDachi;36946789]What about tanks and aircraft?[/QUOTE] Civilians should be able to own such things.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;36946789]What happens when the civilian arms industry is shut down? [editline]26th July 2012[/editline] What about tanks and aircraft?[/QUOTE] People can and do own tanks and aircraft.

[QUOTE=Ridge;36946774]Most people will agree that the bullet on the left is more dangerous than the one on the right, would they not? [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/v92ABl.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] Is the left legal??

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36946815]Civilians should be able to own such things.[/QUOTE] I completely agree. If you want to take the 2nd amendment seriously. If not, it's just another excuse for a 'hobby' and dubious 'self defence'. [editline]26th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=GunFox;36946830]People can and do own tanks and aircraft.[/QUOTE] pwhaha, a disarmed tank from the 50s?

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36946730]Because the government will always be separate from the people because the government is entrusted with much more power than any single person. I'm not sure you understand the government at all. Your statement was idealistic bullshit that means nothing.[/QUOTE] I'm just being entirely hypothetical, that's the reason why I said i'm going off on a tangent Btw anarchism and extreme libertarianism is 'idealistic bullshit' if anything

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;36946831]Is the left legal??[/QUOTE] Yes, though the one on the right isn't.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;36946789]What happens when the civilian arms industry is shut down? [editline]26th July 2012[/editline] What about tanks and aircraft?[/QUOTE] Available on eBay [url=http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1965-HUEY-GUNSHIP-UH-1E-MILITARY-BELL-AIRCRAFT-HELICOPTER-TRADE-4-FORD-GT-/150853421080?pt=Motors_Aircraft&hash=item231f908818#ht_3433wt_1165][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/GTM5K.png[/IMG][/url]

[QUOTE=Ridge;36946889]Available on eBay [url=http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1965-HUEY-GUNSHIP-UH-1E-MILITARY-BELL-AIRCRAFT-HELICOPTER-TRADE-4-FORD-GT-/150853421080?pt=Motors_Aircraft&hash=item231f908818#ht_3433wt_1165][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/GTM5K.png[/IMG][/url][/QUOTE] Got rockets for that thing?

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;36946831]Is the left legal??[/QUOTE] The round on the left is .45-70 Government, a popular cartridge for hunting The round on the right is 5.56, standard caliber for an AR-15

[QUOTE=NoDachi;36946834] pwhaha, a disarmed tank from the 50s?[/QUOTE] *shrug* All I'm saying is that it is legal. It is cost prohibitive to own modern armored vehicles and aircraft privately. Most [I]nations[/I] barely manage cold war era hardware.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;36946898]Got rockets for that thing?[/QUOTE] Too expensive, not enough to do any damage. I'd swap the rocket pods out for some M2s... Now that I think about it. I used to have a plastic model of a Huey gunship. Had the same markings and even tail number as that one...

[QUOTE=GunFox;36946919]*shrug* All I'm saying is that it is legal. It is cost prohibitive to own modern armored vehicles and aircraft privately. Most [I]nations[/I] barely manage cold war era hardware.[/QUOTE] Then I just don't see how you can have a 'well-trained and equipped' private militia to 'keep dem governments in check'.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;36946831]Is the left legal??[/QUOTE] The left is a .45-70 Government round, used by the US army in single-shot rifles in the late 1800s, the right is a 5.56mmx45mm NATO round, used in most "assault weapons" today. Both are legal, both are popular among sports shooters and hunters, the left for deer and moose, the right for varmints and small game. The supposed "big, evil assault weapons" fire small, shitty rounds that soldiers actually complain don't kill people well enough.

[QUOTE=DaCommie1;36946936]The left is a .45-70 Government round, uses by the US army in single-shot rifles in the late 1800s, the right is a 5.56mmx45mm NATO round, used in most "assault weapons" today. Both are legal, both are popular among sports shooters and hunters, the left for deer and moose, the right for varmints and small game. The supposed "big, evil assault weapons" fire small, shitty rounds that soldiers actually complain don't kill people well enough.[/QUOTE] Nah, right one is a green tip. SS109's use a steel penetrator, making them armor piercing and thereby illegal.

[QUOTE=GunFox;36946991]Nah, right one is a green tip. SS109's use a steel penetrator, making them armor piercing and thereby illegal.[/QUOTE] That is actually an M855 Penetrator. And I bought it from the local sporting goods store.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;36946934]Then I just don't see how you can have a 'well-trained and equipped' private militia to 'keep dem governments in check'.[/QUOTE] We have a well trained local militia called the national guard. In addition we have an armed population. Would you honestly want to attempt to occupy American territory against the will of the locals? Assuming the guard wasn't bad enough, the locals could regularly ambush you using the weapons they just had at home. You are seriously fucked once they start stealing your hardware. [editline]26th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Ridge;36946994]That is actually an M855 Penetrator. And I bought it from the local sporting goods store.[/QUOTE] Wat. M855==SS109. They sport a metal penetrator and should be quite illegal. I am jealous, and still confused. EDIT: Oh it looks like Winchester makes this stuff. I really wonder how they are side stepping the laws surrounding armor piercing rounds. Do these rounds just suck compared to their military counterparts or what? Very odd.

[QUOTE=RobbL;36946861]Athenian-style semi-direct democracy, or a fully elected council that resides over numerous open 'parties' or groups made up of intellectuals who put forward various policies that are voted on by the people and then refined by the council, bla bla bla I'm just being entirely hypothetical, that's the reason why I said i'm going off on a tangent Btw anarchism and extreme libertarianism is 'idealistic bullshit' if anything[/QUOTE] Direct democracy is a horrendous concept. That is the entire reason for having a concrete, separate governing body.

[QUOTE=GunFox;36947032]Wat. M855==SS109. They sport a metal penetrator and should be quite illegal. I am jealous, and still confused. EDIT: Oh it looks like Winchester makes this stuff. I really wonder how they are side stepping the laws surrounding armor piercing rounds. Do these rounds just suck compared to their military counterparts or what? Very odd.[/QUOTE] Isn't SS109 5.7 ammo? Also, I've never fired any of them, so I don't know how they perform.

[QUOTE=Ridge;36947116]Isn't SS109 5.7 ammo? Also, I've never fired any of them, so I don't know how they perform.[/QUOTE] SS190 is the 5.7 stuff. I get them mixed up every time. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS190[/url]

[QUOTE=GunFox;36947150]SS190 is the 5.7 stuff. I get them mixed up every time. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS190[/url][/QUOTE] Apparently so do I :P

Give us all guns. Learn from others. Stfu

[QUOTE=GunFox;36947032]We have a well trained local militia called the national guard.[/QUOTE] But a lot of an argument I hear is that you guys want one to protect yourselves ... from yourselves. But we all know which way the national guard will be shooting if it ever came to that.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;36946711]I agree, but people saying gun control never works are being equally ridiculous because it does work in country's with actual control. Besides, I count Switzerland as having strict gun control anyways, not because of the extensive training they receive before they walk around in public with their weapon.[/QUOTE] Gun control doesn't stop crime well enough to be implemented. If somebody wants to kill someone bad enough, they will kill them. Whether it be a baby-killer assault rifle, a .22 handgun, or a kitchen knife.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;36947178]But a lot of an argument I hear is that you guys want one to protect yourselves ... from yourselves. But we all know which way the national guard will be shooting if it ever came to that.[/QUOTE] Depends on which side the governor goes with. National Guard reports to them.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;36947237]Gun control doesn't stop crime well enough to be implemented. If somebody wants to kill someone bad enough, they will kill them. Whether it be a baby-killer assault rifle, a .22 handgun, or a kitchen knife.[/QUOTE] A kitchen knife is less lethal than a firearm. Of course there are other ways to kill someone. Besides, kitchen knifes are classed as weapons in my country too, depending on where you are with it. If you're in your kitchen it's fine, but if you're in public with a kitchen knife you don't want to run into some cops because that's illegal. [editline]26th July 2012[/editline] Same with a baseball bat. If it looks like you're not going to use it for baseball, you might be arrested when you're walking with one.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;36947178]But a lot of an argument I hear is that you guys want one to protect yourselves ... from yourselves. But we all know which way the national guard will be shooting if it ever came to that.[/QUOTE] It is really just a matter of recognizing that the more power which gets centralized in a single location, the greater the possibility of corruption is. The Federal government gets a huge centralization of power, and thereby suffers the greatest corruption. State level governments have wildly varying levels of power and are a serious wildcard if things ever went completely sideways. Any number of things could happen to a national guard force, all depending on the situation surrounding the conflict and the state from which they originate.