Barack Obama vows to pursue gun measures in wake of latest massacre - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Scot;36947927]hey americans maybe if you bothered to look at some facts you would realise how dumb your gun laws are [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate[/url][/QUOTE] Hey Scot maybe you should learn that correlation is not the same as causation. Our gun laws are not the only factor that influences gun crime.

i think Obama has good intentions, and it's not a [b]dumb[/b] idea it just isn't going to actually work.

[QUOTE=Scot;36947927]hey americans maybe if you bothered to look at some facts you would realise how dumb your gun laws are [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate[/url][/QUOTE] This has been brought up like 50 times. And you act like we're at the top of that list but have you even read it?

[QUOTE=lavacano;36947956]i think Obama has good intentions, and it's not a [b]dumb[/b] idea it just isn't going to actually work.[/QUOTE] Actually it is a dumb idea. We have already seen how effective the AWB was at stopping crime, why would we try it again?

[QUOTE=Scot;36947927]hey americans maybe if you bothered to look at some facts you would realise how dumb your gun laws are [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate[/url][/QUOTE] Every country above the US in that list has stricter gun laws than they do. You can't even buy a gun legally in Brazil.

[QUOTE=Scot;36947927]hey americans maybe if you bothered to look at some facts you would realise how dumb your gun laws are [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate[/url][/QUOTE] I choose to answer with this: [QUOTE=GunFox;36946638]"Firearm related deaths" is an irrelevant statistic. The tool used to kill someone doesn't matter. "knife related homicides" or "banana related rapes" are equally useless. The US has a high homicide rate, but does anyone honestly believe that guns cause the high homicide rate. Don't you think that a failing education system, crippled economy, systemic racism, and an extremely culturally diverse population have a considerably larger role? Those tend to be the only factors that really matter. Mexico has extremely strict gun control. How is that working out for them? Switzerland has guns fucking everywhere. Seems to be working out great. Firearms aren't what matter. Quality of life is. You can't just ban something and expect the problem to go away.[/QUOTE] This is the problem with gun debates on Facepunch. People ignore each others responses and the same points keep getting brought up time and time again. This isn't going to get us anywhere.

[QUOTE=Scot;36947927]hey americans maybe if you bothered to look at some facts you would realise how dumb your gun laws are [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate[/url][/QUOTE] Wait, was this post supposed to be sarcastic? Because most countries with firearm death rates that make Detroit look like Happy Land have far stricter gun laws than the US...

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36947941]Hey Scot maybe you should learn that correlation is not the same as causation. Our gun laws are not the only factor that influences gun crime.[/QUOTE] Oh yeah I forgot, if I can go down the street and get a gun I'm way less likely to shoot someone than if I have to go to the black market.

[QUOTE=Scot;36948012]Oh yeah I forgot, if I can go down the street and get a gun I'm way less likely to shoot someone than if I have to go to the black market.[/QUOTE] Are you serious. A person who buys a gun legally has the same likelyhood as anyone who buys a gun illegally has of commiting a crime.

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;36948039]Are you serious. A person who buys a gun legally has the same likelyhood as anyone who buys a gun illegally has of commiting a crime.[/QUOTE] Wow. The point was that if I can't physically get a gun I am not going to be able to shoot someone. See how that makes sense?

[QUOTE=Scot;36948012]Oh yeah I forgot, if I can go down the street and get a gun I'm way less likely to shoot someone than if I have to go to the black market.[/QUOTE] Your logic is irrelevant. The fact that your numbers are outright misleading is what I am taking issue with. You are very deceptive in your portrayal of the cause of US gun crime.

[QUOTE=Scot;36948065]Wow. The point was that if I can't physically get a gun I am not going to be able to shoot someone. See how that makes sense?[/QUOTE] Now that you word it in a non fucktarded way, yes, but this argument is null.

[QUOTE=Fhenexx;36947980]This is the problem with gun debates on Facepunch. People ignore each others responses and the same points keep getting brought up time and time again. This isn't going to get us anywhere.[/QUOTE] I chose to ignore it because it was dumb.

Also, if you're in favor of regulating/banning "assault weapons," (using the common definition of weapons with collapsable stocks, pistol grips, sights and modifications, and not the military definition of weapons with a fully automatic action) and NOT hunting rifles, I advise you to watch this video that was posted 9 pages ago but I'm completely certain a lot of people skipped over. [QUOTE=HkSniper;36940943][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjM9fcEzSJ0[/media][/QUOTE] If you're too lazy to watch it, the point is that legally bought weapons commonly branded as "assault weapons" by the media are no different than your average hunting rifle. [QUOTE=Scot;36948087]I chose to ignore it because it was dumb.[/QUOTE] Tell me, what is so dumb about it? I really want to know.

[QUOTE=Scot;36948087]I chose to ignore it because it was dumb.[/QUOTE] You're going to be a politician one day aren't you.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;36947722]a shotgun is better for home defense, as the pellets wouldn't penetrate through the wall if you used a revolver or pistol, there's a chance your neighbor or someone else can get shot as well[/QUOTE] Shotgun pellets won't reliably bring someone down, though. SWAT teams used to use 9mm MP-5s, but they had issues with overpenetration and the bullet going through multiple sheets of drywall and hurting people that were unseen. They switched over to AR-15s using 5.56 with hollow points or frangible rounds, which can reliably bring down an offender, but will not go through nearly as much drywall.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36948073]Your logic is irrelevant. The fact that your numbers are outright misleading is what I am taking issue with. You are very deceptive in your portrayal of the cause of US gun crime.[/QUOTE] The reason why gun crime in the US is so high is a combination of shitty quality of life and the ease of buying guns. Take one of those factors away and you have much lower gun crime. Obama has taken the easy way out and is addressing the latter. [editline]26th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=purvisdavid1;36948106]You're going to be a politician one day aren't you.[/QUOTE] By the reaction I'm getting from people, looks like it.

[QUOTE=Scot;36948122]The reason why gun crime in the US is so high is a combination of shitty quality of life and the ease of buying guns. Take one of those factors away and you have much lower gun crime. Obama has taken the easy way out and is addressing the latter. [/QUOTE] No it's not, provide evidence it is please.

[QUOTE=Scot;36948122]By the reaction I'm getting from people, looks like it.[/QUOTE] It's because your head is stuck up your ass and you're not willing to see both sides of the argument. And you say "ease". It's not easy to get a gun legally.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36948139]No it's not, provide evidence it is please.[/QUOTE] Of course I have no evidence, I'm not the fucking president. This is purely opinion and logic.

[QUOTE=Scot;36948169]Of course I have no evidence, I'm not the fucking president. This is purely opinion.[/QUOTE] Wow.

[QUOTE=Scot;36948122]The reason why gun crime in the US is so high is a combination of shitty quality of life and the ease of buying guns. Take one of those factors away and you have much lower gun crime. Obama has taken the easy way out and is addressing the latter.[/quote] Why should we only take the "easy way out" and ban guns, which can cause crime but have a legitimate use, instead of trying to ease our "shitty quality of life" which is not only the cause for high gun crime but the source of a hundred other problems, too?

[QUOTE=Scot;36948087]I chose to ignore it because it was dumb.[/QUOTE] We also ignore you for the same reason...

[QUOTE=Scot;36948122]The reason why gun crime in the US is so high is a combination of shitty quality of life and the ease of buying guns. Take one of those factors away and you have much lower gun crime. Obama has taken the easy way out and is addressing the latter.[/QUOTE] Of course. Getting rid of guns would reduce gun crime. But can you explain how it would reduce crime?

[QUOTE=Scot;36948169]Of course I have no evidence, I'm not the fucking president. This is purely opinion and logic.[/QUOTE] You don't need to be the president to get evidence. I mean, there are thousands of sociology studies published that try and figure out what causes crime, there are thousands of psychiatric studies published to try and figure out what drives a criminal. Evidence is literally everywhere. If you are unable to provide any to back up your logic, it either doesn't exist or you are too lazy.

Everyone seems so wrapped up in assault weapons that they've forgotten that the he used a shotgun, which I can only assume is not considered an assault weapon to kill people when his other gun failed to fire. Even if assault weapons are banned people are going to be able to get guns like shotguns. Even the UK with its tight gun laws allows some people to own shotguns, so it doesn't matter if you ban "Assault Weapons" either way there is a chance of some maniac getting his hand a weapon to hurt someone with. Banning military style weapons just limits the rights of the legal owners.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;36948204]Of course. Getting rid of guns would reduce gun crime. But can you explain how it would reduce crime?[/QUOTE] No I think I'm just going to leave before I get banned.

[QUOTE=Scot;36948254]No I think I'm just going to leave before I get banned.[/QUOTE] Statistically stricter gun laws have lead to higher crime rates. It makes a criminal's job safer.

[QUOTE=Scot;36948254]No I think I'm just going to leave before I get banned.[/QUOTE] Wow again.

[QUOTE=Scot;36948254]No I think I'm just going to leave before I get banned.[/QUOTE] Yeah that's probably for the best. But all of this is irrelevant because gun crime, hunting, self defense, or recreational shooting mean fuck all when it comes to the Second Amendment.