Barack Obama vows to pursue gun measures in wake of latest massacre - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Carnage2323;36955628]You know they can get most of those things, right?[/QUOTE] really? ballistic missiles? artillery pieces? nukes?

[QUOTE=Ybbats;36955638]Are you saying if there was someone with a gun there they wouldn't have been able to for some reason stop him? I mean it's dumb to analyze after the fact about this one shooting, but that's not what he said, obviously if someone were carrying a concealed weapon there and the conditions were right, that person could have arguably saved lives, what part about that sounds far-fetched? 'Obviously the bullet would have ricocheted and went through 100 baby skulls, why would people think another gun could have stopped him'[/QUOTE] it's a dark environment with lots of noise and confusion yeah i'm sure nothing could go wrong

[QUOTE=Ybbats;36955638]Are you saying if there was someone with a gun there they wouldn't have been able to for some reason stop him? I mean it's dumb to analyze after the fact about this one shooting, but that's not what he said, obviously if someone were carrying a concealed weapon there and the conditions were right, that person could have arguably saved lives, what part about that sounds far-fetched? 'Obviously the bullet would have ricocheted and went through 100 baby skulls, why would people think another gun could have stopped him'[/QUOTE] The guy was heavily armored too. I don't think a concealable weapon would've been entirely effective.

[QUOTE=Falubii;36955640]Source? I find that incredibly hard to believe.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Crime with Legally Owned Machine Guns In 1995 there were over 240,000 machine guns registered with the ATF. (Zawitz, Marianne,Bureau of Justice Statistics, Guns Used in Crime [PDF].) About half are owned by civilians and the other half by police departments and other governmental agencies (Gary Kleck, Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control, Walter de Gruyter, Inc., New York, 1997.) Since 1934, there appear to have been at least two homicides committed with legally owned automatic weapons. One was a murder committed by a law enforcement officer (as opposed to a civilian). On September 15th, 1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to 18 years in prison. The 1986 'ban' on sales of new machine guns does not apply to purchases by law enforcement or government agencies. [/QUOTE] [url]http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcfullau.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Carnage2323;36955639]Yes, I'm sure all those American's with AR-15's plan on going out and slaughtering their neighborhood.[/QUOTE] Explain to me the justification of owning one? Because it's cool? For hobby? People who think weapons made for and capable of mass murder are cool or use them for recreation are pretty terrifying people.

[QUOTE=BoysLightUp;36955646]really? ballistic missiles? artillery pieces? nukes?[/QUOTE] The following are legal. Any solid shot non rifled weapon up too 140mm, any muzzle loading cannon or mortar, any flamethrower, any incendiary that is not high explosive(thermite), any low explosive, any rifle up to 20mm, any semiautomatic weapon, any crank action weapon(gatling gun or volley gun), any tank with a gun that fits the above description. You can also launch an ICBM capable platform if you inform SACOM about it a two weeks before hand, this is why we send more tonnage to LEO using or private industry than NASA and all foreign public and private space industries combined. With a high explosives permit, which is a five week wait with a shall issue status. You could build a diesel fuel/fertilizer truck bomb, have any rpg, mortar, or artillery piece. Or if you mined, refined, or bred the fissile material privately you could build a thermonuclear bomb. It is only illegal to buy or sell fissionables to anyone except the federal government, private citizens can own their own stock for personal use. [editline]27th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Rusty100;36955672]Explain to me the justification of owning one? Because it's cool? For hobby? People who think weapons made for and capable of mass murder are cool or use them for recreation are pretty terrifying people.[/QUOTE] It's a hobby yes. Are you telling me you're afraid of 80 million citizens just because they own firearms that can kill people?

[QUOTE=Rusty100;36955672]Explain to me the justification of owning one? Because it's cool? For hobby? People who think weapons made for and capable of mass murder are cool or use them for recreation are pretty terrifying people.[/QUOTE] um obviously we're going to use them to take down the government DUH grow a BRAIN geez

[QUOTE=Falubii;36955664]The guy was heavily armored too. I don't think a concealable weapon would've been entirely effective.[/QUOTE] Actually it's come out now that he didnt' have any actual armor on. He had tactical clothing, but no armor.

[QUOTE=Carnage2323;36955673]The following are legal. Any solid shot non rifled weapon up too 140mm, any muzzle loading cannon or mortar, any flamethrower, any incendiary that is not high explosive(thermite), any low explosive, any rifle up to 20mm, any semiautomatic weapon, any crank action weapon(gatling gun or volley gun), any tank with a gun that fits the above description. You can also launch an ICBM capable platform if you inform SACOM about it a two weeks before hand, this is why we send more tonnage to LEO using or private industry than NASA and all foreign public and private space industries combined. With a high explosives permit, which is a five week wait with a shall issue status. You could build a diesel fuel/fertilizer truck bomb, have any rpg, mortar, or artillery piece. Or if you mined, refined, or bred the fissile material privately you could build a thermonuclear bomb. It is only illegal to buy or sell fissionables to anyone except the federal government, private citizens can own their own stock for personal use. [editline]27th July 2012[/editline] It's a hobby yes. Are you telling me you're afraid of 80 million citizens just because they own firearms that can kill people?[/QUOTE] sorry, but i don't believe you could legally purchase or own a modern artillery piece or high-explosive weapon - nor do i treat a muzzle-loaded cannon as any of these. nor could you legally purchase or create or possess a nuclear weapon (yes you could mine material and make a bomb but that's not legal). please, show me official regulations authorising the ownership of these. e: and if by some stroke of inanity you produce us gov. regulations authorising the ownership of a nuclear bomb, your country is insane.

I think the idea that the desire to murder people is proportionally increased with the power of the weapon is the biggest fault here. I don't believe there is any correlation between weapon power and desire to use it for murder. An increase in lethality is not inherently an increase in desire to kill. I also think a difference should be drawn between owning an assault rifle and a fucking mortar. There happens to be quite a difference in potential and use. A rifle can be used for sport, collecting, or historical significance; whereas a mortar or a howitzer is a weapon designed for the mass killing of soldiers in wartime. Say what you will about guns, but there should be a difference observed.

[QUOTE=Ridge;36955344]I think my guns are broken. I've never had the overwhelming desire to go kill the crap out of my neighbors. (Okay, except for that one time. But I drank the desire away).[/QUOTE] that's not cool at all that's irrational, and you're openly saying that you have poor self-control seek help

[QUOTE=Ridge;36955603]I can kill you quite easily with a hammer or a knife or a car. There are 200,000,000 guns in private circulation in the US, as of 2010. Last week, a person used 3 of those to do something terrible. That leaves an awful lot of firearms out there doing no harm to anybody. I use my guns for target shooting, marksmanship training. [/QUOTE] You can kill people with almost anything. But it doesn't change the fact that guns were specifically created to make it easier for people to kill other people, and kill a lot more of them. There's no legitimate justification for owning one. Target shooting might be fun to you, but to me it seems like a pointless and dangerous activity that makes people feel more strong, in control, or 'bad-ass'. Small ding-a-ling syndrome. Reasonable, sane people, do not enjoy shooting firearms. I submit to you, that people who do, are not mentally fit in one way or another. America is a very backwards country in this regard. You were raised that way. The same way someone raised in a cult is devoted to that cult for life. [editline]27th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Carnage2323;36955673] It's a hobby yes. Are you telling me you're afraid of 80 million citizens just because they own firearms that can kill people?[/QUOTE] Yes. The fact so many people own firearms is disturbing to say the least.

[QUOTE=DanRatherman;36955709]I think the idea that the desire to murder people is proportionally increased with the power of the weapon is the biggest fault here. I don't believe there is any correlation between weapon power and desire to use it for murder. An increase in lethality is not inherently an increase in desire to kill. I also think a difference should be drawn between owning an assault rifle and a fucking mortar. There happens to be quite a difference in potential and use. A rifle can be used for sport, collecting, or historical significance; whereas a mortar or a howitzer is a weapon designed for the mass killing of soldiers in wartime. Say what you will about guns, but there should be a difference observed.[/QUOTE] a mortar can also be used for collecting/historical worth - and an AK-47 is designed for the mass killing of individuals in war. i agree there's a difference between a handgun and a cannon - but the assault rifle falls on the latter side of that line.

[QUOTE=Rusty100;36955718]You can kill people with almost anything. But it doesn't change the fact that guns were specifically created to make it easier for people to kill other people, and kill a lot more of them. There's no legitimate justification for owning one. Target shooting might be fun to you, but to me it seems like a pointless and dangerous that makes people feel more strong, in control, or 'bad-ass'. Small ding-a-ling syndrome. Reasonable, sane people, do not enjoy shooting firearms. I submit to you, that people who do, are not mentally fit in one way or another. America is a very backwards country in this regard. [editline]27th July 2012[/editline] Yes. The fact so many people own firearms is disturbing to say the least.[/QUOTE] Wait, you're seriously implying that 80 million citizens are insane just for owning a firearm? You can't possibly be serious. Like, seriously this is tinfoil hat status

[QUOTE=Carnage2323;36955733]Wait, you're seriously implying that 80 million citizens are insane just for owning a firearm? You can't possibly be serious.[/QUOTE] 60 million people voted for McCain so you tell me

[QUOTE=Carnage2323;36955733]Wait, you're seriously implying that 80 million citizens are insane just for owning a firearm? You can't possibly be serious.[/QUOTE] firearms are designed with and only one purpose in mind: to kill, or disable/incapacitate

62 million voted for Bush in 2004

[QUOTE=Carnage2323;36955733]Wait, you're seriously implying that 80 million citizens are insane just for owning a firearm? You can't possibly be serious.[/QUOTE] They are raised with insane and outdated beliefs. It's not entirely their fault, but it's still very worrying that so many people in a country can be of those beliefs. Most of America is one big mass hysteria. The rest are smart enough to see though it. Here's a nice example from Jason Alexander (George Costanza) [URL]http://www.twitlonger.com/show/if2nht[/URL]

the prognosis isn't looking good, America.

[QUOTE=Rusty100;36955718]Target shooting might be fun to you, but to me it seems like a pointless and dangerous activity that makes people feel more strong, in control, or 'bad-ass'.[/QUOTE] Target shooting is analogous to golf. You have to align your shot, control your muscles, develop a breathing pattern and move precisely. The latter is just typically quieter than the former, and more welcome to involving alcohol as part of the party. [QUOTE=Rusty100;36955718]Reasonable, sane people, do not enjoy shooting firearms. I submit to you, that people who do, are not mentally fit in one way or another.[/QUOTE] That is your personal opinion. According to you, there are 80 million mentally ill people walking the streets, driving cars around you. [quote]America is a very backwards country in this regard. You were raised that way. The same way someone raised in a cult is devoted to that cult for life.[/quote] Actually I was quite liberal as a kid. I didn't like guns. I felt very much the same as you. In my teenage years, FPS games like Counter Strike: Source got me interested in guns.

[QUOTE=Ridge;36955767]Target shooting is analogous to golf. You have to align your shot, control your muscles, develop a breathing pattern and move precisely. The latter is just typically quieter than the former, and more welcome to involving alcohol as part of the party.[/QUOTE] It's a lot harder to mass murder people with gold balls and golf clubs though. They were created for a sport. Guns were not, and were just adapted for sport as an extension of the wide spread belief that everyone should own one. Read: an insane, and outdated belief from a much less civilized and safe time. A time where black people were slaves too.

[QUOTE=Rusty100;36955752]They are raised with insane and outdated beliefs. It's not entirely their fault, but it's still very worrying that so many people in a country can be of those beliefs. Most of America is one big mass hysteria. The rest are smart enough to see though it.[/QUOTE] So even those who use guns as a sport(such as skeet shooting) are insane, who have no intention of every firing those guns on a living person, are insane. Really, it is hard to take you seriously making a claim that nearly a third of the United States is insane. [editline]27th July 2012[/editline] Also I guess the people of the UK are also insane, for they are allowed to firearms. Also Switzerland is insane because they have firearms.

[QUOTE=Carnage2323;36955791]So even those who use guns as a sport(such as skeet shooting) are insane, who have no intention of every firing those guns on a living person, are insane. Really, it is hard to take you seriously making a claim that nearly a third of the United States is insane.[/QUOTE] Not quite mentally sound, no. Especially if they can't see the very reasonable truth. Gun-toting zealots who will find any and every way to justify owning a WEAPON. A WEAPON. If you think you need to own a weapon, please search deeply in yourself. I think you have some underlying problems.

[QUOTE=Rusty100;36955784]It's a lot harder to mass murder people with gold balls and golf clubs though. They were created for a sport. Guns were not, and were just adapted for sport as an extension of the wide spread belief that everyone should own one. Read: an insane, and outdated belief from a much less civilized and safe time. A time where black people were slaves too.[/QUOTE] Well let me know when Golf becomes an Olympic sport, because shooting already is. [editline]26th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Rusty100;36955808]Not quite mentally sound, no. Especially if they can't see the very reasonable truth. Gun-toting zealots who will find any and every way to justify owning a WEAPON. A WEAPON.[/QUOTE] You've got at least 8 weapons in your kitchen drawer right now.

[QUOTE=Rusty100;36955784]It's a lot harder to mass murder people with gold balls and golf clubs though. They were created for a sport. Guns were not, and were just adapted for sport as an extension of the wide spread belief that everyone should own one. Read: an insane, and outdated belief from a much less civilized and safe time. A time where black people were slaves too.[/QUOTE] If you ban guns, people will just find other ways to kill, hell a bomb is even simpler to make and far more effective. Banning one way to kill people will do jack shit, we will just use the thousands of other ways, this is of course if guns were somehow magically taken out of the hands of those who wish to do bad things with them.

[QUOTE=Rusty100;36955808]Not quite mentally sound, no. Especially if they can't see the very reasonable truth. Gun-toting zealots who will find any and every way to justify owning a WEAPON. A WEAPON.[/QUOTE] Do you happen to own any knives in your home? Guess what, those can be very lethal weapons(And knives are much more deadly that people like to believe)

[QUOTE=Ridge;36955818]Well let me know when Golf becomes an Olympic sport, because shooting already is. [editline]26th July 2012[/editline] You've got at least 8 weapons in your kitchen drawer right now.[/QUOTE] cool but this doesn't really address what rusty100 is saying

[QUOTE=Jetblack357;36955831]If you ban guns, people will just find other ways to kill, hell a bomb is even simpler to make and far more effective. Banning one way to kill people will do jack shit, we will just use the thousands of other ways, this is of course if guns were somehow magically taken out of the hands of those who wish to do bad things with them.[/QUOTE] So let's not ban an easy way to kill people, just in case people find another easy way to kill people?

You throw around the word weapon as if it only applies to guns. Fuck, my car can be a weapon we should ban those too!

[QUOTE=Rusty100;36955837]So let's not ban an easy way to kill people, just in case people find another easy way to kill people?[/QUOTE] You don't have to look far to figure out how else to kill people. Killing people is easy as fuck, its escaping punishment that's hard.