Barack Obama vows to pursue gun measures in wake of latest massacre - Polidicks

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;36940161]Stricter laws would of done nothing... Even if they were there, he would of planned to get the rifle sooner and would of still done the same thing.[/QUOTE] i dont know what sooner has to do with it since im literally talking about banning assault weapons altogether i seriously doubt he would have been able to get an assault rifle if they were banned.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36940148]can i see the study then because if its 100% true that more guns undeniably means less violence i'll be more than happy to join your guys' side of the argument[/QUOTE] [img]http://www.justfacts.com/images/guncontrol/dc.png[/img] "During the years in which the D.C. handgun ban and trigger lock law was in effect, the Washington, D.C. murder rate averaged 73% higher than it was at the outset of the law, while the U.S. murder rate averaged 11% lower." [url]http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp[/url]

[QUOTE=Jo The Shmo;36940156] anyway I'm not even talking about criminals, I'm talking about perfectly normal americans who seem perfectly nice when they go out and buy a gun. it still increases the chance of harm to those around him (suicide, domestic violence, etc) by a huge amount[/QUOTE] Laadey da, I love life. Neat now I own a gun! NOW I'M GOING TO KILL EVERYONE. What the FUCK kind of logic is that. He bought the gun because he wanted to commit the crime, he didn't commit the crime because he bought the gun.

[QUOTE=Jo The Shmo;36940178]are you seriously saying the government shouldn't tell people what to do? thats a ridiculously flawed argument, seeing that governments [i]need[/i] to control certain aspects of life in a country[/QUOTE] Certain aspects, it doesn't need to control all of them, that's called oppression.

[QUOTE=NomadicNinja;36940174]i don't understand people who go hunting for fun what type of enjoyment do you get from killing defenseless animals??[/QUOTE] Most hunters I know do not enjoy the actual action of killing the animal, but rather the hunt itself and many like myself enjoy the taste of wild game. Though I don't really hunt often, went a few times as a kid but never really got into it, so I could not say for sure.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;36940194][img]http://www.justfacts.com/images/guncontrol/dc.png[/img] "During the years in which the D.C. handgun ban and trigger lock law was in effect, the Washington, D.C. murder rate averaged 73% higher than it was at the outset of the law, while the U.S. murder rate averaged 11% lower." [url]http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp[/url][/QUOTE] but i don't have anything against handguns?

[QUOTE=dogmachines;36940194][img]http://www.justfacts.com/images/guncontrol/dc.png[/img] "During the years in which the D.C. handgun ban and trigger lock law was in effect, the Washington, D.C. murder rate averaged 73% higher than it was at the outset of the law, while the U.S. murder rate averaged 11% lower." [url]http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp[/url][/QUOTE] yeah because that huge murder rate definitely had nothing to do with the 90s crack epidemic and the huge rise in gang violence. notice how the murder rate was falling before the law was struck down?

[QUOTE=Rastadogg5;36940196]Laadey da, I love life. Neat now I own a gun! NOW I'M GOING TO KILL EVERYONE. What the FUCK kind of logic is that. He bought the gun because he wanted to commit the crime, he didn't commit the crime because he bought the gun.[/QUOTE] its not logic its statistics you are more likely to cause serious harm if you own a gun. period. there are idiots out there who manage to get their hands on guns legally and misuse them all the time

[QUOTE=Jo The Shmo;36940178]are you seriously saying the government shouldn't tell people what to do? thats a ridiculously flawed argument, seeing that governments [i]need[/i] to control certain aspects of life in a country[/QUOTE] No, I'm saying justification is needed beyond "I don't see why they need guns".

[QUOTE=Rastadogg5;36940196]Laadey da, I love life. Neat now I own a gun! NOW I'M GOING TO KILL EVERYONE. What the FUCK kind of logic is that. He bought the gun because he wanted to commit the crime, he didn't commit the crime because he bought the gun.[/QUOTE] the gun gave him the means to commit the crime, a crime he either wouldn't have committed, or would not have been capable of committing if he didn't have the guns

[QUOTE=Milkdairy;36940173]Are you kidding? Columbine involved a TEC-9, and like several shotguns, plus a semi-auto carbine.[/QUOTE] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School_massacre#Firearms]The TEC-9 was semi-automatic, for what it's worth[/url] [QUOTE=NomadicNinja;36940174]i don't understand people who go hunting for fun what type of enjoyment do you get from killing defenseless animals??[/QUOTE] Animals are tasty yo [QUOTE=Jo The Shmo;36940178]are you seriously saying the government shouldn't tell people what to do? thats a ridiculously flawed argument, seeing that governments [i]need[/i] to control certain aspects of life in a country[/QUOTE] When there's no reasonable justification for it no, it shouldn't.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;36940194][img]http://www.justfacts.com/images/guncontrol/dc.png[/img] "During the years in which the D.C. handgun ban and trigger lock law was in effect, the Washington, D.C. murder rate averaged 73% higher than it was at the outset of the law, while the U.S. murder rate averaged 11% lower." [url]http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp[/url][/QUOTE] correlation isn't causation

[QUOTE=Pig;36940186]No, stop right there. If he isn't allowed to imagine a hypothetical scenario neither are you.[/QUOTE] right.. but logically if he were unable to obtain a weapon legally.. and neither of us were allowed a hypothetical he wouldn't have a weapon? so it really doesn't matter because i'm not proposing any "hypothetical" its literally the most obvious outcome

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36940167]you know this how? [editline]26th July 2012[/editline] literally nobody has said this, stop crying about shit you made up[/QUOTE] Jesus you're upset. My point is that it's pretty damn simple regarding to gun laws. taking away guns from all to punish like 2% of the crazies? That's just not fair

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;36940210]yeah because that huge murder rate definitely had nothing to do with the 90s crack epidemic and the huge rise in gang violence. notice how the murder rate was falling before the law was struck down?[/QUOTE] Notice how it spiked dramatically more than the national average.

[QUOTE=Jo The Shmo;36940188]i dont know what sooner has to do with it since im literally talking about banning assault weapons altogether i seriously doubt he would have been able to get an assault rifle if they were banned.[/QUOTE] Drugs are banned. Please try to tell me that drugs being banned makes them impossible to get.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;36940218]the gun gave him the means to commit the crime, a crime he either wouldn't have committed, or would not have been capable of committing if he didn't have the guns[/QUOTE] But that doesn't mean that buying the gun is what gave him the idea of committing the crime.

[QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;36940225]Jesus you're upset. My point is that it's pretty damn simple regarding to gun laws. taking away guns from all to punish like 2% of the crazies? That's just not fair[/QUOTE] sorry i forgot that your weekend hobby is more important than people dying my bad dude

[QUOTE=dogmachines;36940217]No, I'm saying justification is needed beyond "I don't see why they need guns".[/QUOTE] ok we've been justifying it repeatedly in this thread, but i can repeat myself i guess: guns cause harm, they are violent weapons, idiots get their hands on them

[QUOTE=Pig;36940228]Drugs are banned. Please try to tell me that drugs being banned makes them impossible to get.[/QUOTE] please tell me that legalization of those drugs wouldn't result in a substantial increase of usage?

[QUOTE=Milkdairy;36940173]Are you kidding? Columbine involved a full auto TEC-9, and like several shotguns, plus a semi-auto carbine.[/QUOTE] The TEC-9 was full auto? Was it modded or something? Also I actually didn't realize their was a carbine involved. Bad resources on my part.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;36940226]Notice how it spiked dramatically more than the national average.[/QUOTE] again, it spiked during a time when gang violence was sky high, and then it started dying down and THEN the law was struck down

[QUOTE=Jo The Shmo;36940216]its not logic its statistics you are more likely to cause serious harm if you own a gun. period. there are idiots out there who manage to get their hands on guns legally and misuse them all the time[/QUOTE] The way you worded your post, it sounds like you're implying that buying a firearm can suddenly make you a violent person for no logical reason.

[QUOTE=Jo The Shmo;36940238]ok we've been justifying it repeatedly in this thread, but i can repeat myself i guess: guns cause harm, they are violent weapons, idiots get their hands on them[/QUOTE] And laws won't stop this. Most crimes are committed with illegally obtained weapons.

You're judging the entire demographic over a sparse incident. You act like there are mass murders every day and only in America.

[QUOTE=Rastadogg5;36940231]But that doesn't mean that buying the gun is what gave him the idea of committing the crime.[/QUOTE] no, being completely fucked in the head is what gave him the idea. having the gun is what gave him the means. why he decided to commit the crime would be irrelevant if he was incapable of committing it

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;36940182]pretty sure the only people obsessed with guns enough to wanna buy assault weapons weren't gonna vote for a black man anyway....[/QUOTE] gun ownership is common in both republican and democrat circles. lots of people find the ak and ar-15 platforms handy and fun to shoot (which are the big two "scary" rifles every latte liberal wants to ban), so this will just piss them off more. the administration and the news will trot out some old timer that hates modern guns to show why they should be banned, but in reality those people are horribly outnumbered compared to ak/ar-15 fans.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36940239]please tell me that legalization of those drugs wouldn't result in a substantial increase of usage?[/QUOTE] What you're trying to do here isn't applicable, there is a very clear difference between drug usage and killing another person. You just can't draw a parallel as they are on different rungs of the immoral ladder.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36940234]sorry i forgot that your weekend hobby is more important than people dying my bad dude[/QUOTE] You're drawing a false connection between owning guns for harmless reasons and people using guns to commit crimes [QUOTE=Jo The Shmo;36940238]ok we've been justifying it repeatedly in this thread, but i can repeat myself i guess: guns cause harm, they are violent weapons, idiots get their hands on them[/QUOTE] So many damn things cause harm. I know you'll just say that being designed to do it makes guns special or something, but whatever

[QUOTE=Rastadogg5;36940251]The way you worded your post, it sounds like you're implying that buying a firearm can suddenly make you a violent person for no logical reason.[/QUOTE] yeah dude you seriously need to take a 5 minute break and cool down because nobody has ever said anything remotely close to that half of your guys' posts are in response to shit nobody has ever said in this thread (ever)