Barack Obama vows to pursue gun measures in wake of latest massacre - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Rastadogg5;36940251]The way you worded your post, it sounds like you're implying that buying a firearm can suddenly make you a violent person for no logical reason.[/QUOTE] most people can become violent for no logical reason, people snap, people get drunk and on drugs. having a firearm just means that when this happens people die

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;36940245]again, it spiked during a time when gang violence was sky high, and then it started dying down and THEN the law was struck down[/QUOTE] At which point in then dropped like a rock, meaning that ease of access either reduces gun violence, or has no effect on it.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36940234]sorry i forgot that your weekend hobby is more important than people dying my bad dude[/QUOTE] You can say a hobby is not worth the risk to human life, but that could be applied to many hobbies. You can not start banning things simply because a few bad people use them to harm others.

[QUOTE=Pig;36940265]What you're trying to do here isn't applicable, there is a very clear difference between drug usage and killing another person. You just can't draw a parallel as they are on different rungs of the immoral ladder.[/QUOTE] ok.. so why is your comparison of drugs and guns valid but mine isn't?

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36940239]please tell me that legalization of those drugs wouldn't result in a substantial increase of usage?[/QUOTE] [url=http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html] Portugal?[/url] Even though not fully legal, abuse went down a shit-ton.

[QUOTE=Pig;36940228]Drugs are banned. Please try to tell me that drugs being banned makes them impossible to get.[/QUOTE] first of all, the drug industry is thousands of times bigger than the illegal weapons industry and second of all, people purchase illegal weapons when they know they want to do something bad with it. these are criminals at heart. people purchase drugs for their own benefit. they may know they are breaking the law, but they aren't bad people who want to hurt others

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36940239]please tell me that legalization of those drugs wouldn't result in a substantial increase of usage?[/QUOTE] According to Portugal it doesn't. [editline]26th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Jo The Shmo;36940282]first of all, the drug industry is thousands of times bigger than the illegal weapons industry and second of all, people purchase illegal weapons when they know they want to do something bad with it. these are criminals at heart. people purchase drugs for their own benefit. they may know they are breaking the law, but they aren't bad people who want to hurt others[/QUOTE] You know why the drug industry is so much larger? Drugs are illegal. And look at all the violence it has caused.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;36940254]And laws won't stop this. Most crimes are committed with illegally obtained weapons.[/QUOTE] this isn't true.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;36940280][url=http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html] Portugal?[/url] Even though not fully legal, abuse went down a shit-ton.[/QUOTE] eh alright that was a stupid thing to say [editline]26th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=dogmachines;36940254]And laws won't stop this. Most crimes are committed with illegally obtained weapons.[/QUOTE] citation please

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36940279]ok.. so why is your comparison of drugs and guns valid but mine isn't?[/QUOTE] Because the other guy was proposing that if the weapon were banned he wouldn't be able to get it. I used the valid argument that making something illegal doesn't make it impossible to own.

comparing drugs to guns is stupid anyway

[QUOTE=Jo The Shmo;36940291]this isn't true.[/QUOTE] According to the FBI In a study in 1997 - Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from - * a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2% * a retail store or pawnshop for about 12% * family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80% Source: [url]http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm[/url]

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;36940261]no, being completely fucked in the head is what gave him the idea. having the gun is what gave him the means. why he decided to commit the crime would be irrelevant if he was incapable of committing it[/QUOTE] He was obviously familiar with explosives. He could have just lobbed a bunch of home made grenades instead.

[QUOTE=Pig;36940303]Because the other guy was proposing that if the weapon were banned he wouldn't be able to get it. I used the valid argument that making something illegal doesn't make it impossible to own.[/QUOTE] when it comes to firearms it makes it far harder to own, someone buying a gun illegally with the intent to kill a bunch of people is gonna be way more likely to get snitched out or arrested or whatever than someone who just buys one in a store

[QUOTE=Jo The Shmo;36940282]first of all, the drug industry is thousands of times bigger than the illegal weapons industry and second of all, people purchase illegal weapons when they know they want to do something bad with it. these are criminals at heart. people purchase drugs for their own benefit. they may know they are breaking the law, but they aren't bad people who want to hurt others[/QUOTE] I'm only using the example for the sake of showing you that something being illegal doesn't make it impossible to get. The illegal weapons industry isn't big because weapons are legal...

[QUOTE=dogmachines;36940284]According to Portugal it doesn't. [editline]26th July 2012[/editline] You know why the drug industry is so much larger? Drugs are illegal. And look at all the violence it has caused.[/QUOTE] uh yeah i think drugs that only directly affect yourself should be legal however i dont think that guns which are purposefully made to only affect things in front of you should be

Okay all you people can go on about your shitstorm, but for how many years before this were we perfectly fine? 5? 10? 15 years? And all the sudden, this one psychopath comes along and does this, now everyone wants to put down heavier restrictions then there already are when things were perfectly fine before this.

Here is what happens when guns are made illegal, as demonstrated by the UK: [img]http://www.justfacts.com/images/guncontrol/england.png[/img]

[QUOTE=Ridge;36940313]He was obviously familiar with explosives. He could have just lobbed a bunch of home made grenades instead.[/QUOTE] and probably would have blown himself up making home made bombs, or tipped off the feds by buying all the chemicals and that shit or alerted neighbours with all the bullshit making bombs takes. any of which would be preferable

[QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;36940256]You're judging the entire demographic over a sparse incident. You act like there are mass murders every day and only in America.[/QUOTE] Literally no one has said that or implied it.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;36940318]when it comes to firearms it makes it far harder to own, someone buying a gun illegally with the intent to kill a bunch of people is gonna be way more likely to get snitched out or arrested or whatever than someone who just buys one in a store[/QUOTE] Not likely. You don't get repeat business by selling out your customer base to the cops.

the thing is that even if you do a try a genuine gun ban on certain types or w/e there's so many out there you'd have a very large supply of guns just begging to be sold on the black market. cute programs like "guns 4 cash" could help reduce some of the cheaper guns, but there's no way things like ar-15s or even cheap gangbanger revolvers will be given up that easily. gun culture is so rampant in the usa i'm sure it would be easy to establish a semi-underground gun market.

[QUOTE=dogmachines;36940311]According to the FBI In a study in 1997 - Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from - * a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2% * a retail store or pawnshop for about 12% * family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80% Source: [url]http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm[/url][/QUOTE] that proves inmates who have been arrested and convicted more often than not used illegal weapons i wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that having an illegal weapon is.. illegal.. which would add to the inmate count. no that cant be.. is there anything that says actual crimes committed took place using illegal weaponry?

Any "vow" a politician makes is just hot air, its nothing they will ever actually do.

[QUOTE=Jo The Shmo;36940325]uh yeah i think drugs that only directly affect yourself should be legal however i dont think that guns which are purposefully made to only affect things in front of you should be[/QUOTE] Target shooting [QUOTE=Butthurter;36940323]why are you comparing an assault weapon to a tool[/QUOTE] Yeah I admit that when it's assault rifles specifically instead of guns in general tool isn't the best term

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36940339]that proves inmates who have been arrested and convicted more often than not used illegal weapons i wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that having an illegal weapon is.. illegal.. which would add to the inmate count. no that cant be.. is there anything that says actual crimes committed took place using illegal weaponry?[/QUOTE] You mean people convicted of a crime using an illegal weapon doesn't show that people commit crimes with illegal weapons? If there isn't a conviction no shit there's no data.

[QUOTE=Jo The Shmo;36940020]tell me what is accomplished by owning an assault rifle, if it's such a useful "tool"[/QUOTE] People want assault rifles for the same reasons people want other types of rifles for shooting targets.

[QUOTE=Ridge;36940334]Not likely. You don't get repeat business by selling out your customer base to the cops.[/QUOTE] if someones gonna go shoot up a movie theater odds are you're not getting him as a return customer anyway, and you're gonna have a way larger chance of getting in shit yourself

[QUOTE=dogmachines;36940329]Here is what happens when guns are made illegal, as demonstrated by the UK: [img]http://www.justfacts.com/images/guncontrol/england.png[/img][/QUOTE] so why did that big spike in homicides go down within a year? were guns made legal again?

[QUOTE=dogmachines;36940311]According to the FBI In a study in 1997 - Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from - * a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2% * a retail store or pawnshop for about 12% * family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80% Source: [url]http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm[/url][/QUOTE] ugh ive seen this before this includes a lot of different scenarios such as someone legally purchasing a gun to give it to someone else, or someone using a relatives gun that they arent licensed to use, and a lot of other situations that gun control actually [i]would[/i] help with