let me just repost this so you can try and absorb it one more time mate.
[quote]To Northerners, in contrast, [b]the motivation was primarily to preserve the Union, not to abolish slavery. Abraham Lincoln consistently made preserving the Union the central goal of the war, though he increasingly saw slavery as a crucial issue and made ending it an additional goal.[/b][/quote]
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;40671121]from your link, good job friendo[/QUOTE]
yea because the northern people didn't want to fight a war to free blacks. they weren't interested in it.
the south seceded because of slavery primarily.
I could [h2] the important part for you if you'd like but I feel like you get it
contrast this to the republican party and abraham lincoln who WERE abolitionists and interested in freeing slaves.
why am i not surprised it's come down to this? they always start off by saying 'it's wrong to stop them flying the CSA flag because it's against civil liberties!' but as it goes on they reveal that they don't actually consider the CSA an evil institution founded upon the right to subjugate another race.
any american history class beyond highschool emphasizes HEAVILY three key points about the civil war that most basic highschool classes get wrong
it was not primarily over slavery, nor abolishing it
lincoln did not have a personal agenda to abolish slavery
lincoln emancipated slaves as a military and political action, hence why it was done during the war and not after nor in northern states
you're literally just posting links to wikipedia pages and reiterating your obviously wrong points over and over again
[QUOTE=yawmwen;40671066][b]lincoln didn't want to abolish slavery? what are you smoking?[/b] the republican party was primarily an abolitionist party and [b]lincoln was a very staunch abolitionist.[/b]
the whole reason for the civil war was slavery. anything else is history revision.[/QUOTE]
this is what I'm calling you stupid over not your thing about the civil war being over slavery, yeah the south was stupid and thought they needed to succeed because Lincoln strove to stop slavery's spread to new states. Effectively what would've happened was that we'd have the 50 states now but none of them would allow slavery except for the would-be confederates. They got super buttmad saying "oh man that's gonna throw the balance way off" so Lincoln basically said "fine no slavery for anyone then"
[QUOTE=Loriborn;40671174]any american history class beyond highschool emphasizes HEAVILY three key points about the civil war that most basic highschool classes get wrong
it was not primarily over slavery, nor abolishing it
lincoln did not have a personal agenda to abolish slavery
lincoln emancipated slaves as a military and political action, hence why it was done during the war and not after nor in northern states[/QUOTE]
after just taking an AP us history course i strongly support this guy
[editline]17th May 2013[/editline]
automerge sorry
[QUOTE=Meatpuppet;40671177]you're literally just posting links to wikipedia pages and reiterating your obviously wrong points over and over again[/QUOTE]
wikipedia articles that have verified sources unlike anything you've brought to the table
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;40671169]why am i not surprised it's come down to this? they always start off by saying 'it's wrong to stop them flying the CSA flag because it's against civil liberties!' but as it goes on they reveal that they don't actually consider the CSA an evil institution founded upon the right to subjugate another race.[/QUOTE]
you take history classes beyond remedial school and realize this shit isnt black and white (no pun intended)
i think the csa was atrocious but to censor the flying of ANY political party's flag is stupid
having perspective on both sides of a situation doesnt mean you agree with their opinion lol
dont be dense
[QUOTE=yawmwen;40671119][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_lincoln#Slavery_and_a_.22House_Divided.22[/url]
ffs can you guys do a google search of "american civil war" and "abraham lincoln" before you pretend to know anything about these things?[/QUOTE]
Dude, where the fuck did you learn this bullshit?! You need to go kick your history teacher in the nuts for screwing you over so badly! Lincoln wanted to ship all the slaves back to Africa.
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;40671181]this is what I'm calling you stupid over not your thing about the civil war being over slavery, yeah the south was stupid and thought they needed to succeed because Lincoln strove to stop slavery's spread to new states. Effectively what would've happened was that we'd have the 50 states now but none of them would allow slavery except for the would-be confederates. They got super buttmad saying "oh man that's gonna throw the balance way off" so Lincoln basically said "fine no slavery for anyone then"[/QUOTE]
yea because lincoln was a politician and saw that it was politically necessary to compromise with the slave states to try and prevent them from seceding(some good that did).
[QUOTE=yawmwen;40671159]contrast this to the republican party and abraham lincoln who WERE abolitionists and interested in freeing slaves.[/QUOTE]
ok let me just h2 this for you so it gets in your head
[h2]Abraham Lincoln consistently made preserving the Union the central goal of the war, though he increasingly saw slavery as a crucial issue and made ending it an additional goal.[/h2]
Lincoln didn't give a single fuck about the existing slave states, he just wanted to make new states outlaw slavery. This lead to the south crying and trying to succeed over "omg non-slave majority", and like I said before, Lincoln started saying more and more "fine you big fucking babies no slavery for any of you"
[QUOTE=Meatpuppet;40671019]this guy is right, actually most families in the antebellum south didn't own slaves
it was really more of a state's rights issue if you look at the broader picture[/QUOTE]
The civil war? No, no it wasn't. States' Rights didn't take center stage until Reconstruction, before that it was just there to make the slavery debate look less ugly.
But what the CSA wanted is only relevant if this dude clearly wanted to imply that he was anti-union and pro-slavery, which he probably isn't. Technically he's not even flying the confederate flag, he's flying the southern cross. There's a whole bunch of things that the southern cross can imply. It's like a union jack.
[QUOTE=viper shtf;40671198]Dude, where the fuck did you learn this bullshit?! You need to go kick your history teacher in the nuts for screwing you over so badly! Lincoln wanted to ship all the slaves back to Africa.[/QUOTE]
this actually existed as the american colonization society
[QUOTE=Meatpuppet;40671186]after just taking an AP us history course i strongly support this guy
[editline]17th May 2013[/editline]
automerge sorry[/QUOTE]
if your ap teacher taught you that they are a history revisionist.
the majority of the secessionist states cited slavery as their primary reason for secession, the CSA constitution blatantly shows that the political convictions of the CSA were to protect slavery and the vice president of the CSA literally said the cornerstone of their government was blacks being inferior to whites
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;40671192]wikipedia articles that have verified sources unlike anything you've brought to the table[/QUOTE]
funny how im using his links to show how he's wrong too huh?
[QUOTE=Aredbomb;40671208]The civil war? No, no it wasn't. States' Rights didn't take center stage until Reconstruction, before that it was just there to make the slavery debate look less ugly.
But what the CSA wanted is only relevant if this dude clearly wanted to imply that he was anti-union and pro-slavery, which he probably isn't. Technically he's not even flying the confederate flag, he's flying the southern cross. There's a whole bunch of things that the southern cross can imply. It's like a union jack.[/QUOTE]
the civil war pretty much ended the major states' rights debate, reconstruction had nothing to do with it
[QUOTE=yawmwen;40671211]if your ap teacher taught you that they are a history revisionist.[/QUOTE]
you have literally no argument to go off of except "no im right you just have a curtain over your eyes! I can't prove im right but i am!!!!"
[QUOTE=yawmwen;40671211]if your ap teacher taught you that they are a history revisionist.[/QUOTE]
i guess every univerity american history professor must be a revisionist
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;40671214]the majority of the secessionist states cited slavery as their primary reason for secession, the CSA constitution blatantly shows that the political convictions of the CSA were to protect slavery and the vice president of the CSA literally said the cornerstone of their government was blacks being inferior to whites[/QUOTE]
Yes but it wasn't because Lincoln was going to abolish slavery like he's been trying to say
he was going to stop its spread
DIFFERENT CONCEPTS
[QUOTE=Loriborn;40671193]you take history classes beyond remedial school and realize this shit isnt black and white (no pun intended)
i think the csa was atrocious but to censor the flying of ANY political party's flag is stupid
having perspective on both sides of a situation doesnt mean you agree with their opinion lol
dont be dense[/QUOTE]
that you've chosen to forget/ignore my previous posts re: censorship (and even your own in which you said you think all political parties flags should be kept out of schools) shows who's really being dense.
[editline]17th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;40671232]Yes but it wasn't because Lincoln was going to abolish slavery like he's been trying to say
he was going to stop its spread
DIFFERENT CONCEPTS[/QUOTE]
well, i haven't been talking about the civil war, i've been talking about the CSA itself
Oh rite rite, I'm staying out of the CSA debate I've got no knowledge in that specific sector, sorry about that
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;40671207]ok let me just h2 this for you so it gets in your head
[h2]Abraham Lincoln consistently made preserving the Union the central goal of the war, though he increasingly saw slavery as a crucial issue and made ending it an additional goal.[/h2]
Lincoln didn't give a single fuck about the existing slave states, he just wanted to make new states outlaw slavery. This lead to the south crying and trying to succeed over "omg non-slave majority", and like I said before, Lincoln started saying more and more "fine you big fucking babies no slavery for any of you"[/QUOTE]
"What I do say is, that no man is good enough to govern another man, without that other's consent. I say this is the leading principle - the sheet anchor of American republicanism." 1854
"In 1841 you and I had together a tedious low-water trip, on a Steam Boat from Louisville to St. Louis. You may remember, as I well do, that from Louisville to the mouth of the Ohio there were, on board, ten or a dozen slaves, shackled together with irons. That sight was a continual torment to me; and I see something like it every time I touch the Ohio, or any other slave-border." 1855
"In the first place, I insist that our fathers did not make this nation half slave and half free, or part slave and part free. I insist that they found the institution of slavery existing here. They did not make it so, but they left it so because they knew of no way to get rid of it at that time." 1858
"Now, I confess myself as belonging to that class in the country who contemplate slavery as a moral, social and political evil, having due regard for its actual existence amongst us and the difficulties of getting rid of it in any satisfactory way, and to all the constitutional obligations which have been thrown about it; but, nevertheless, desire a policy that looks to the prevention of it as a wrong, and looks hopefully to the time when as a wrong it may come to an end." 1858
you were saying?
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;40671233]that you've chosen to forget/ignore my previous posts re: censorship (and even your own in which you said you think all political parties flags should be kept out of schools) shows who's really being dense.
[editline]17th May 2013[/editline]
well, i haven't been talking about the civil war, i've been talking about the CSA itself[/QUOTE]
im going on a tangent getting people to understand the civil war
this has nothing to do with the censorship argument where i've already made my stance clear
the actions of the organization shouldnt define whether you area allowed to fly that flag
school zones should be devoid of all political representation as to prevent conflict
where is the trouble here?
[editline]16th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;40671242]"What I do say is, that no man is good enough to govern another man, without that other's consent. I say this is the leading principle - the sheet anchor of American republicanism." 1854
"In 1841 you and I had together a tedious low-water trip, on a Steam Boat from Louisville to St. Louis. You may remember, as I well do, that from Louisville to the mouth of the Ohio there were, on board, ten or a dozen slaves, shackled together with irons. That sight was a continual torment to me; and I see something like it every time I touch the Ohio, or any other slave-border." 1855
"In the first place, I insist that our fathers did not make this nation half slave and half free, or part slave and part free. I insist that they found the institution of slavery existing here. They did not make it so, but they left it so because they knew of no way to get rid of it at that time." 1858
"Now, I confess myself as belonging to that class in the country who contemplate slavery as a moral, social and political evil, having due regard for its actual existence amongst us and the difficulties of getting rid of it in any satisfactory way, and to all the constitutional obligations which have been thrown about it; but, nevertheless, desire a policy that looks to the prevention of it as a wrong, and looks hopefully to the time when as a wrong it may come to an end." 1858
you were saying?[/QUOTE]
lincoln's personal opinion doesnt mean that was his goal during the civil war
wow congrats you proved he didn't like slavery
which is why he was going to stop it from spreading!
thanks buddy :o)
[QUOTE=Loriborn;40671229]i guess every univerity american history professor must be a revisionist[/QUOTE]
lol i'v taken history classes in college
you obviously haven't.
[editline]17th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;40671256]wow congrats you proved he didn't like slavery
which is why he was going to stop it from spreading!
thanks buddy :o)[/QUOTE]
so why are you arguing?
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