Flying Confederate flag ends in suspension for high school junior - Polidicks

Lincoln literally said that he didn't care whether slavery was ended or not as long as the Union was preserved. He personally opposed slavery but was not an abolitionist by any means.

You obviously didn't go to a decently regarded school then, or you slept in class [editline]16th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;40671258]lol i'v taken history classes in college you obviously haven't. [editline]17th May 2013[/editline] so why are you arguing?[/QUOTE] because you say he was an abolitionist when he wasn't

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40671258]lol i'v taken history classes in college you obviously haven't. [editline]17th May 2013[/editline] so why are you arguing?[/QUOTE] stopping the spread of slavery != abolishing it one of the major republican goals was to stop the spread of slavery in new states, look at the various compromises made by henry clay

[QUOTE=Loriborn;40671245]im going on a tangent getting people to understand the civil war this has nothing to do with the censorship argument where i've already made my stance clear the actions of the organization shouldnt define whether you area allowed to fly that flag school zones should be devoid of all political representation as to prevent conflict where is the trouble here?[/QUOTE] then stop saying shit about censorship at me as though i support it

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40671258]lol i'v taken history classes in college you obviously haven't. [editline]17th May 2013[/editline] so why are you arguing?[/QUOTE] lol "you look beyond the same black/white stuff grinded into your brain in remedial school you must not have taken american history class!" all your doing quoting wikipedia articles you havent brought anything else to the table besides the things that kids (incorrectly) learn in middle school also nice job strawmanning this into a personal attack gj

I have a union flag in my room thats about it, some cheap shit thing I bought for the queens birthday.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;40671272] because you say he was an abolitionist when he wasn't[/QUOTE] he was! [QUOTE=Meatpuppet;40671291]stopping the spread of slavery != abolishing it one of the major republican goals was to stop the spread of slavery in new states, look at the various compromises made by henry clay[/QUOTE] FFS "Now, I confess myself as belonging to that class in the country who contemplate slavery as a moral, social and political evil, having due regard for its actual existence amongst us and the difficulties of getting rid of it in any satisfactory way, and to all the constitutional obligations which have been thrown about it; but, nevertheless, desire a policy that looks to the prevention of it as a wrong, and looks hopefully to the time when as a wrong it may come to an end." [QUOTE=Loriborn;40671296]lol "you look beyond the same black/white stuff grinded into your brain in remedial school you must not have taken american history class!" all your doing quoting wikipedia articles you havent brought anything else to the table besides the things that kids (incorrectly) learn in middle school also nice job strawmanning this into a personal attack gj[/QUOTE] your sources: none

the CSA largely seceded due to slavery, so you COULD say that is one of the root causes of the war, even if the true reason the USA attacked was to preserve the union (which would have been preserved had the CSA not seceded due to slavery!!!)

[QUOTE=mastermaul;40670588]A lot of people seem to have Reichskriegsflagges. [url=http://imgkk.com/i/q7of.png]Glad i'm not the only one.[/url][/QUOTE] Lets go form our own little commune of people who have them too and all be happy together. There's so much hate for us in this thread, man. Imperial German flags look cool, goddammit.

yeah the CSA largely credited slavery as their reason for succeeding (also Federal Law vs. State Law but yolo), but yaw is trying to argue that Lincoln was an abolitionist which isn't true in the slightest, at least not politically. Yes, his personal opinion was that slavery was p. shitty, but he was a good politician and good politicians dont base their decisions off of personal opinion. He decided to make all new states outlaw slavery as a way to keep the union intact, as a kind of compromise. Well the south would have none of that, and many a scream of "muh majority" was heard. slam bam, war. Lincoln knew that this kind of shit would keep happening if slavery was an existing factor in the country's politics, so he decided to remove it entirely so in the future the union could be preserved without this nasty little issue popping up

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40671318]he was! FFS "Now, I confess myself as belonging to that class in the country who contemplate slavery as a moral, social and political evil, having due regard for its actual existence amongst us and the difficulties of getting rid of it in any satisfactory way, and to all the constitutional obligations which have been thrown about it; but, nevertheless, desire a policy that looks to the prevention of it as a wrong, and looks hopefully to the time when as a wrong it may come to an end." your sources: none[/QUOTE] "Political support for Lincoln thus appeared slim, and he did not seem likely to use his authority to move against slavery. He had made it clear that, as president, he would possess neither the authority nor the desire to disturb slavery as it existed in the south... Lincoln insisted that his objective was 'to save the Union, and... neither to save or destroy slavery. (Lincoln, 1864)"

repost for bottom of the page "Political support for Lincoln thus appeared slim, and he did not seem likely to use his authority to move against slavery. He had made it clear that, as president, he would possess neither the authority nor the desire to disturb slavery as it existed in the south... Lincoln insisted that his objective was 'to save the Union, and... neither to save or destroy slavery. (Lincoln, 1864)"

[QUOTE=Kopimi;40670343]i think his point with the touching yourself bit is that even though you're not physically affecting the child, by wearing a flag that symbolizes a culture and history of violence and discrimination you're still hurting them in the same way that being "indecent" towards a child without physical contact is still damaging mentally and emotionally[/QUOTE] I doubt many children think about what the flag represents.

[QUOTE=Loriborn;40671372]repost for bottom of the page "Political support for Lincoln thus appeared slim, and he did not seem likely to use his authority to move against slavery. He had made it clear that, as president, he would possess neither the authority nor the desire to disturb slavery as it existed in the south... Lincoln insisted that his objective was 'to save the Union, and... neither to save or destroy slavery. (Lincoln, 1864)"[/QUOTE] oh god our posts got switched, what happened

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;40671387]oh god our posts got switched, what happened[/QUOTE] that was pretty magical i can get the quotes that defend what youre saying in the page king too if you give me a moment to flip through my old american history uni textbooks

rad thanks mang, I'm just going off of what I remember from past classes so yeah that'd be great

[QUOTE=Loriborn;40671396]that was pretty magical i can get the quotes that defend what youre saying in the page king too if you give me a moment to flip through my old american history uni textbooks[/QUOTE] i have the american pageant 13th edition right now if the conversation really escalates on the point of not having sources

wait so the confederate flag represents slavery apparently, that must mean this flag is pretty evil; [img]http://resources.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/images/uk.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Vasili;40671432]wait so the confederate flag represents slavery apparently, that must mean this flag is pretty evil; [img]http://resources.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/images/uk.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Hundreds of years of brutal imperialism, get that shit out of my sight you monster!

[QUOTE=Vasili;40671432]wait so the confederate flag represents slavery apparently, that must mean this flag is pretty evil; [img]http://resources.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/images/uk.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] To be fair, nowadays those that fly the confederate flag do so on the basis of regional pride.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40671318]he was! FFS "Now, I confess myself as belonging to that class in the country who contemplate slavery as a moral, social and political evil, having due regard for its actual existence amongst us and the difficulties of getting rid of it in any satisfactory way, and to all the constitutional obligations which have been thrown about it; but, nevertheless, desire a policy that looks to the prevention of it as a wrong, and looks hopefully to the time when as a wrong it may come to an end." your sources: none[/QUOTE] Not liking slavery doesn't make someone an abolitionist. Many of the most famous abolitionists from the time actually didn't like Lincoln for that reason. They were concerned that he had no goal to of his own to end slavery.

[QUOTE=YouWithTheFace.;40669824] why are you even flying the confederate flag in michigan?[/QUOTE] I've seen confederate flags on pickup trucks [i]here[/i]. I think at some point someone passed a law saying all assholes have to display it somewhere

i have the american pageant 13th edition, created equal 3rd edition, and one more if i can find it

[QUOTE=Loriborn;40671452]i have the american pageant 13th edition, created equal 3rd edition, and one more if i can find it[/QUOTE] we have the same book i feel connected even though i'm only a junior in high school

i am only a sophomore :o)

[QUOTE=Meatpuppet;40671218]the civil war pretty much ended the major states' rights debate[/QUOTE] No it didn't. It ended secessionist talks, but the democrats moved the goalposts to try and give states as much power as possible so that they could maintain the south's rebuilt economy based around exploiting freed slaves with loopholes and shit. They championed this idea and became a powerful force throughout the south because of it. There was no state's rights debate before the civil war. It was just a buzzword politicians used when they didn't want to talk about slavery or secession outright.

[QUOTE=Meatpuppet;40671464]we have the same book i feel connected even though i'm only a junior in high school[/QUOTE] post grad uni but youll likely use american pageant again, its pretty much a staple of american history textbooks in college same with created equal

[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;40671449]Not liking slavery doesn't make someone an abolitionist. Many of the most famous abolitionists from the time actually didn't like Lincoln for that reason. They were concerned that he had no goal to of his own to end slavery.[/QUOTE] strange because the south didn't perceive it that way. they were pretty sure that lincoln was moving towards abolition by making sure there wouldn't be more slave-states. lincoln was a gradualist but it seems like he was definitely interested in the eventual abolition of slavery.

[QUOTE=Aredbomb;40671471]No it didn't. It ended secessionist talks, but the democrats moved the goalposts to try and give states as much power as possible so that they could maintain the south's rebuilt economy based around exploiting freed slaves with loopholes and shit. They championed this idea and became a powerful force throughout the south because of it. There was no state's rights debate before the civil war. It was just a buzzword politicians used when they didn't want to talk about slavery outright.[/QUOTE] so anti-federalists never existed then?

[QUOTE=Aredbomb;40671471]No it didn't. It ended secessionist talks, but the democrats moved the goalposts to try and give states as much power as possible so that they could maintain the south's rebuilt economy based around exploiting freed slaves with loopholes and shit. They championed this idea and became a powerful force throughout the south because of it. There was no state's rights debate before the civil war. It was just a buzzword politicians used when they didn't want to talk about slavery outright.[/QUOTE] prior to the civil war states' rights WAS an issue south carolina's nullification crisis was one of the biggest, earliest conflicts between the deep south and federal government regarding states' rights and planted the seeds for southern distrust of big federal government same with the charting of the bank of the united states