Flying Confederate flag ends in suspension for high school junior - Polidicks

also the bill of rights stemmed from people arguing about states' rights

[QUOTE=Zeke129;40671451]I've seen confederate flags on pickup trucks [i]here[/i]. I think at some point someone passed a law saying all assholes have to display it somewhere[/QUOTE] So you're judging someone on something they have respect for as opposed to the actual persons character? Who's the real asshole here?

that's what appeased anti-federalists

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40671481]strange because the south didn't perceive it that way. they were pretty sure that lincoln was moving towards abolition by making sure there wouldn't be more slave-states. lincoln was a gradualist but it seems like he was definitely interested in the eventual abolition of slavery.[/QUOTE] yes, that's what weve been trying to say lincoln would have, if given time, weened the US out of slavery if possible BUT his goal was not to abolish slavery directly or immediately

automerge AGAIN [editline]17th May 2013[/editline] NO

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40671481]strange because the south didn't perceive it that way. they were pretty sure that lincoln was moving towards abolition by making sure there wouldn't be more slave-states. lincoln was a gradualist but it seems like he was definitely interested in the eventual abolition of slavery.[/QUOTE] His personal stance may be perceived as abolitionist, sure, but politically that was not his goal. He was protecting the union first and foremost, and if he had to compromise by letting the south keep their slaves, that what he'd do.

[QUOTE=Loriborn;40671505]yes, that's what weve been trying to say lincoln would have, if given time, weened the US out of slavery if possible BUT his goal was not to abolish slavery directly or immediately[/QUOTE] an abolitionist is someone who desires the abolition of slavery you can be a gradualist abolitionist. there is no contradiction in the term.

He had expressed no desire politically to get rid of slavery.

[QUOTE=Vasili;40671432]wait so the confederate flag represents slavery apparently, that must mean this flag is pretty evil; [img]http://resources.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/images/uk.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] please show me where the united kingdom pledged that the cornerstone of it's government was that blacks are inferior to whites and that slavery is their natural state

On personal accounts? Sure yeah he's said plenty of times that slavery is bad and he wished it didn't exist, but he never brought that onto the political battlefield. I think that's what makes him so great TBH, his political face and his personal face were pretty different

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40671520]an abolitionist is someone who desires the abolition of slavery you can be a gradualist abolitionist. there is no contradiction in the term.[/QUOTE] you stated that his goal during the civil war was to abolish slavery "lincoln didn't want to abolish slavery? what are you smoking? the republican party was primarily an abolitionist party and lincoln was a very staunch abolitionist. the whole reason for the civil war was slavery. anything else is history revision." (yawmwen 2013) we're trying to tell you that wasnt the case [editline]16th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=No Party Hats;40671532]He had expressed no desire politically to get rid of slavery.[/QUOTE] and this as i quoted above [editline]16th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Lachz0r;40671537]please show me where the united kingdom pledged that the cornerstone of it's government was that blacks are inferior to whites and that slavery is their natural state[/QUOTE] hes joking because the union jack was used in both the confederate and british union flag

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;40671532]He had expressed no desire politically to get rid of slavery.[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas%E2%80%93Nebraska_Act[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas%E2%80%93Nebraska_Act#Lincoln-Douglas_Debates[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln-Douglas_Debates#The_Debates[/url]

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;40671537]please show me where the united kingdom pledged that the cornerstone of it's government was that blacks are inferior to whites and that slavery is their natural state[/QUOTE] The UK had a big hand in the Atlantic slave trade, just because they didn't write down the fact that they did some bad shit doesn't mean it's not a part of who they are.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;40671537]please show me where the united kingdom pledged that the cornerstone of it's government was that blacks are inferior to whites and that slavery is their natural state[/QUOTE] I don't think such a thing would be written down on paper, but the fact they imported slaves to form their earlier colonies in america might give you an idea.

"The main theme of the Lincoln–Douglas debates was slavery, particularly the issue of slavery's expansion into the territories." first sentence of your quote yes we know that lincoln didnt want the spread of slavery [B]but he also stated he did not want to abolish slavery in the south nor was that goal a forefront of the civil war[/B] your using things we've already said against us but we've already said these things to you [editline]16th May 2013[/editline] "this is what I'm calling you stupid over not your thing about the civil war being over slavery, yeah the south was stupid and thought they needed to succeed because Lincoln strove to stop slavery's spread to new states. Effectively what would've happened was that we'd have the 50 states now but none of them would allow slavery except for the would-be confederates. They got super buttmad saying "oh man that's gonna throw the balance way off" so Lincoln basically said "fine no slavery for anyone then" (no party hats 2013) we already acknowledged and used this in the conversation

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40671568][URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas–Nebraska_Act[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas–Nebraska_Act#Lincoln-Douglas_Debates[/URL] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln-Douglas_Debates#The_Debates[/URL][/QUOTE] so you're giving us links to proof that he wanted to stop the spread of slavery to new states? congrats for proving our point

[QUOTE=Loriborn;40671586]"The main theme of the Lincoln–Douglas debates was slavery, particularly the issue of slavery's expansion into the territories." first sentence of your quote yes we know that lincoln didnt want the spread of slavery [b]but he also stated he did not want to abolish slavery in the south nor was that goal a forefront of the civil war[/b] your using things we've already said against us but we've already said these things to you[/QUOTE] so he hated slavery and wanted to eventually get rid of it but he wasn't an abolitionist

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;40671537]please show me where the united kingdom pledged that the cornerstone of it's government was that blacks are inferior to whites and that slavery is their natural state[/QUOTE] uh they were a pretty big colonial empire with a ton of slaves of all different ethnicity plus they treated most natives of their colonial lands like shit (ie India)

yes this makes perfect sense

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40671608]so he hated slavery and wanted to eventually get rid of it but he wasn't an abolitionist[/QUOTE] you seem to think that his personal opinion is what he should be labeled by politically you would not make a good politician.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40671608]so he hated slavery and wanted to eventually get rid of it but he wasn't an abolitionist[/QUOTE] you are dense you cant read one of the two "but he also stated he did not want to abolish slavery in the south nor was that goal a forefront of the civil war" [b]literally me in the post you quoted[/b] we [b]never[/b] said he wasnt an abolitionist please quote any of us saying he wasnt one we are merely saying that abolition WAS NOT his goal during the civil war nor did he want to directly abolish slavery in the south THATS IT stop putting words where they dont exist and start using real evidence because at this point youre not saying anything with substance

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;40671627]you seem to think that his personal opinion is what he should be labeled by politically you would not make a good politician.[/QUOTE] so he took actions to eventually stop slavery but wasn't an abolitionist

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40671631]but wasn't an abolitionist[/QUOTE] please quote either of us saying he wasnt an abolitionist lol

[QUOTE=Loriborn;40671629]you are dense you cant read one of the two "but he also stated he did not want to abolish slavery in the south nor was that goal a forefront of the civil war" [b]literally me in the post you quoted[/b] we [b]never[/b] said he wasnt an abolitionist please quote any of us saying he wasnt one we are merely saying that abolition WAS NOT his goal during the civil war nor did he want to directly abolish slavery in the south THATS IT stop putting words where they dont exist and start using real evidence because at this point youre not saying anything with substance[/QUOTE] i never said that abolition was his initial goal in the civil war either

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40671638]i never said that abolition was his initial goal in the civil war either[/QUOTE] so then why do you continue to argue if you agree with what we say

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;40671272] because you say he was an abolitionist when he wasn't[/QUOTE] good enough for you loriborn? [editline]17th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Loriborn;40671647]so then why do you continue to argue if you agree with what we say[/QUOTE] because you guys are saying he wasn't an abolitionist when he clearly was!

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;40671569]The UK had a big hand in the Atlantic slave trade, just because they didn't write down the fact that they did some bad shit doesn't mean it's not a part of who they are.[/QUOTE] yes they did that, at a time when everyone was doing that (not that this justifies it at all) but that was just an act of a very old nation-state, the CSA was LITERALLY FOUNDED to protect the rights of slavers and to continue the subjugation of blacks THIS IS WHY THE CSA IS BAD AND FLYING THEIR FLAG MAKES YOU EITHER A DUMBASS OR A RACIST DUMBASS [editline]17th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Loriborn;40671609]uh they were a pretty big colonial empire with a ton of slaves of all different ethnicity plus they treated most natives of their colonial lands like shit (ie India)[/QUOTE] what they did and what they stood for are different things. although i do consider the british empire fucked

He was an abolitionist on a personal level, but his political goal was to create a compromise. The south can keep their slaves and slave trade, new states don't have any of that. that was the end of it. on a PERSONAL level he wanted total abolition, but personal opinions have no part in politics and Lincoln understood that. That's why all sorts of people hated him, including abolitionists. He wasn't gonna get rid of slavery.

[QUOTE=Meatpuppet;40671482]so anti-federalists never existed then?[/QUOTE] They had nothing to do with the civil war. Anti federalists were people who feared that excessive federal power would lead to a government like Great Britain's and they started to disappear once people grew more comfortable with the government that the constitution put in place. Growing fears of secession also made the issue hard to discuss unless you were willing to go all the way with it. Post-civil war states' rights was honestly more anti-republican than anti-federalist.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;40671652]yes they did that, at a time when everyone was doing that (not that this justifies it at all) but that was just an act of a very old nation-state, the CSA was LITERALLY FOUNDED to protect the rights of slavers and to continue the subjugation of blacks THIS IS WHY THE CSA IS BAD AND FLYING THEIR FLAG MAKES YOU EITHER A DUMBASS OR A RACIST DUMBASS[/QUOTE] again feel free to disagree with their personal ideologies, but there is no point in merely insulting the people who wave the confederate flag doesnt really have anything to do with anything other than your personal opinion on a select group of people