Roy Moore: last time America was "great" was during "Slavery" - Polidicks

[QUOTE=sgman91;52959704]It was a badly worded comment, but it's hard for me to believe that you guys don't see why he said it like that. He was answering the question of a black person and knew that the automatic response would be: "How can you say that was the last time America was great if it was a time with slaver?" So he preempted the follow up by agreeing that slavery was bad in his answer.[/QUOTE] but there was no reason to even bring up slavery. how does "a time when families were united" automatically mean slavery-era? he brought it up himself.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52959783]White families were united. Black families were broken up to keep strong spirited slaves from having other strong spirited people around to rise up with.[/QUOTE] no doubt that detail still deserves attention. America was a shithole for anyone that wasn't White, male, christian, all things he is. For a white, straight, male, America is 'falling apart' because god forbid its fair for everyone and people have rights.

If you ever wonder, like I have before what "White Privilege" is, I really feel like this is a good fucking example of it. You can look back at any period of history in American history and say "I wish we were back there". You really can't do that as any other nationality. Oh, hey Barrack Obama, do you want to see what 1781 was like? It's not safe for us to take you there to see that in our time machine here. It's not safe for you to go back before the 70's in many ways

[QUOTE=sgman91;52959704]It was a badly worded comment, but it's hard for me to believe that you guys don't see why he said it like that. He was answering the question of a black person and knew that the automatic response would be: "How can you say that was the last time America was great if it was a time with slaver?" So he preempted the follow up by agreeing that slavery was bad in his answer.[/QUOTE] Why would the automatic response to "there was a time where families were united" be "but slavery" when, if anything, the institution of slavery in America is notorious for splitting up families. There is absolutely no reason to insert the slave angle into it. It's unnecessary to get his point across.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;52959850]Why would the automatic response to "there was a time where families were united" be "but slavery" when, if anything, the institution of slavery in America is notorious for splitting up families. There is absolutely no reason to insert the slave angle into it. It's unnecessary to get his point across.[/QUOTE] one might even say, counter acts his point

[QUOTE=BelatedGamer;52959771]Doesn't make it any better; he could have easily just said "When our families were united and our country had direction" which would have been vague as fuck but still exactly the sort of answer you would expect from a politician like him. Instead he [I]explicitly[/I] said that the last time America was great was when we had slavery. Not the idealized 1950s that most conservative politicians appeal to, not when our country was united in fighting in WW2, not when we rebuilt our country after the Civil War, the [I]only description he gave[/I] was when we had slavery. If that doesn't ring some alarms in your head then I don't know what to say.[/QUOTE] Vague answer: 'You didn't answer the question'. 1950s: 'You mean when race riots and lynchings were the norm?' WW2: 'You mean when segregation was in place and black men were brutally experimented on after serving their country?' Reconstruction: 'You mean when the KKK was at their peak and terrorizing black communities?' There is literally no way to idealize a prior era in American history without the treatment of black Americans constituting a (completely valid) gotcha, that's why the Republican perspective is always 'like back then, but without the racist part'.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52959704]It was a badly worded comment, but it's hard for me to believe that you guys don't see why he said it like that. He was answering the question of a black person and knew that the automatic response would be: "How can you say that was the last time America was great if it was a time with slaver?" So he preempted the follow up by agreeing that slavery was bad in his answer.[/QUOTE] Sure, it's out of context slightly. However, I would argue that the context only reinforces the idea that Moore is not strictly against or otherwise abhors slavery. Not saying that he's suddenly for the idea, but when his answer to the question is that America was great during a time where a significant portion of the population was enslaved, the economies of the southern states were beginning to fall apart due to growing industrialization of the world, and civil war loomed on the horizon, is naively misinformed at best. It is easy to see in my opinion that at worst that he is pandering to the racist and divisive elements of our culture, hoping that by fanning the emotional flames of these elements he can come out on top in the senate race.

there was a time where the news wasn't something that would make bleating like a goat and slamming your head into an oven preferable to reading it

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52959778]If the country is united, and slavery is still a thing, then the country isn't actually united and it's just a fucking lie. He could have pointed at any time period after slavery was done as a time period for that, the 50's is the stereotypical conservative dream time so why not go with that? It just seems that he's racist with everything he does like this.[/QUOTE] It's funny that they idolize the 50's, too, as they claim to be "fiscally conservative" but during Eisenhower's presidency any earnings over $5 million (IIRC, that number may be off) was taxed up to 90%, and even minimum wage was enough to sustain a family and have a house and car.

[QUOTE=nagachief;52959172]He's not a Democrat. That's literally it.[/QUOTE] all the more reason to fucking destroy the two party system fuck sake [editline]9th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=elixwhitetail;52959699]I guess those refugees fleeing persecution from a rogue Christian theocratic state can find shelter in Canada, then. :downs:[/QUOTE] they gotta get through the north first though

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;52961014]It's funny that they idolize the 50's, too, as they claim to be "fiscally conservative" but during Eisenhower's presidency any earnings over $5 million (IIRC, that number may be off) was taxed up to 90%, and even minimum wage was enough to sustain a family and have a house and car.[/QUOTE] heh sounds like communism to me. Back in my golden age we had none of that

The last time the US was truly great was during FDR’s era.

[QUOTE=mcharest;52961212]The last time the US was truly great was during FDR’s era.[/QUOTE] Well I mean there was still segregation, a depression ( a pretty great one as I recall), Japanese internment camps...

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;52961354]Well I mean there was still segregation, a depression ( a pretty great one as I recall), Japanese internment camps...[/QUOTE] But wasn't FDR against segregation, but didn't come out publicly against it in fear of losing the Southern votes?

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;52961354]Well I mean there was still segregation, a depression ( a pretty great one as I recall), Japanese internment camps...[/QUOTE] Yeah, I think the point is that you can make a case for why any point in history where America wasn't great for at least some people. Maybe the late 90's?

Y'know, I think the worst part about him saying this is the way it ties in with Tinyhands' 'Make America Great Again' slogan In the context of that, y'know, just a little bit on the unsettling side

[QUOTE=Bbarnes005;52961384]But wasn't FDR against segregation, but didn't come out publicly against it in fear of losing the Southern votes?[/QUOTE] Ya basically fdr stuffed all that away because he needed southern conservatives. It was ironically eisenhower that finally undid the knot and kicked off the civil rights movement, maybe thats why the republicans like to be nostalgic about the 1950s without actually confronting the fact that eisenhower would not be allowed in their party today

[QUOTE=The golden;52961601]Can I just say something here on behalf of the entire western international community (and possibly beyond)? What the fuck are you doing, America? This goes [I]far [/I]beyond Trump or the GOP. What the actual fuck is wrong with your country?[/QUOTE] We voted Republicans into positions of power. I use "we" loosely.

[QUOTE=The golden;52961601] What the fuck are you doing, America?[/QUOTE] I think it's pretty obvious that even we don't know what the fuck we're doing.

[QUOTE=Eva-1337;52961705]We voted Republicans into positions of power. I use "we" loosely.[/QUOTE] Moreover, Republicans believe that politics is a zero-sum game. They want to "win" even if winning involves abandoning every positive aspect about themselves and their country. Their voters have no principles and change their viewpoint to reflect whatever their leader declares is the correct path. As others have put it before, Republicans would let their leaders shit in their mouths if it means liberals have to smell it.

[QUOTE=The golden;52961601]Can I just say something here on behalf of the entire western international community (and possibly beyond)? What the fuck are you doing, America? This goes [I]far [/I]beyond Trump or the GOP. What the actual fuck is wrong with your country?[/QUOTE] Public education is broken in our country. The people that have the most to learn have walled themselves in a hugbox media bubble that tells them that they're special. Only they can "see through the lies" spread by the "mainstream media" and the "liberal elite". Bad actors initially took advantage of these populations for personal gain. The public policy that they crafted was sold on lies for so long that a number of people shaping public policy today actually believe those lies.

Also people are tricked into believing that people made vulnerable via our government are to blame for every stupid thing the government does.

[QUOTE=The golden;52961601]Can I just say something here on behalf of the entire western international community (and possibly beyond)? What the fuck are you doing, America? This goes [I]far [/I]beyond Trump or the GOP. What the actual fuck is wrong with your country?[/QUOTE] America's idea of how democracy works is terrible and outdated, and our schools and politicians hide this truth from us so that they can keep their corruption and higher-than-the-Soviet Union incumbency rate.

It's like The Onion slipped into reality or something, like holy fucking shit these people.

[QUOTE=The golden;52961601]Can I just say something here on behalf of the entire western international community (and possibly beyond)? What the fuck are you doing, America? This goes [I]far [/I]beyond Trump or the GOP. What the actual fuck is wrong with your country?[/QUOTE] I wish I could agree with this sentiment, but my country has decided to Brexit, so I would be a hypocrite. Saying this though, I personally think Trump is emblematic of far deeper divisions, racism and ignorance than even Brexit was. At least there are *some* arguments on Brexit for which there is a smidge of evidence, although none of those arguments stand up to extended scrutiny.

[QUOTE=Richardroth;52963305]It's like The Onion slipped into reality or something, like holy fucking shit these people.[/QUOTE] I think we need to quit the whole "Where the fuck do these people come from" gimmick. These people have and always will exist if we dont put effort to quell their asinine ideology. Face the fact these people exist, and put in whatever manpower that will be required to wipe out their backwards ideology off the goddamn planet.

[QUOTE=Dan The Man;52963309]At least there are *some* arguments on Brexit for which there is a smidge of evidence, although none of those arguments stand up to extended scrutiny.[/QUOTE] It was very telling when leave won but then everybody in leave stepped down and said they didn't want to run the country.

[QUOTE=Medevila;52963805]Republicans can't let that slide... that was under a Democratic president. They used to say under Reagan, but even he's too liberal for today's GOP. you can't change peoples' minds[/QUOTE] Honestly, I used to believe this pretty strongly, but my mind has changed on a lot of things over time, especially recently. Perhaps it hasn't on huge things, but there's a lot of nuance I hadn't considered when young and stupid(er) that I have now thought about and adjusted my views to accordingly. Something I find uncomfortable to do, but do anyway, is listening and reading centre-right and even some far-right sources in addition to my main diet of the BBC, The Guardian and a lot of YouTubers, as it, at the very least, confronts me with notions I had never considered in the past. I will always be left wing, but I can at least see where people are coming from better now. I still kinda agree that changing somebody's mind through a single debate is impossible though. I am more saying that convincing debate performances over a longer period of time can and does change people's views. Just look at religiosity among UK youth, for example. Lack of religion is 53% for the whole of the UK but 71% to under 35 year olds. That implies a changing tide on that one.

[QUOTE=Dan The Man;52963836] I still kinda agree that changing somebody's mind through a single debate is impossible though.[/QUOTE] I am of the mindset that a debate, whether it be on public tv or here on the internet, is not for the debaters to win but for the audience. It's often the ones not participating that are open to one direction or the other and it's up to the people debating to present their side as the correct one, even if their opponent stonewalls constantly in changing their mind. I debate to change the minds of the lurkers here on FP. Whether I do or not, I don't know but would like to think I do. This guy Roy Moore is a racist fuckhead and he will not ever change that for whatever few years on this earth he has. It's our job not to get him to change his mind but to challenge his beliefs in front of others so they may see how stupid, asinine and backward his thinking is.

This is unreal.