Jokes and puns relevant to the news story are fine. Posting tired memes will still get you banned.
I was gonna stop anyway before I get in [del][I]over my-[/I][/del]
okayokayokay I'm done sorry.
[I]"When they said the airframe was breathtaking, I didn't know they literally ment it!"[/I]
That article is very oddly constructed.
If you read it, it never realllllly gives any indication that the majority of requests to not fly the aircraft are even related to the O2 issues.
If I was a pilot, I'd be ten times more likely to not want to fly the things simply because they never get used. I'd rather be in an F-15, which can at least occasionally be sortied to attack ground targets and are still used as the backbone of our air superiority capabilities. What is the point of being an elite pilot of an advanced aircraft if everyone is too afraid to utilize them.
[QUOTE=GunFox;35796233]That article is very oddly constructed.
If you read it, it never realllllly gives any indication that the majority of requests to not fly the aircraft are even related to the O2 issues.
If I was a pilot, I'd be ten times more likely to not want to fly the things simply because they never get used. I'd rather be in an F-15, which can at least occasionally be sortied to attack ground targets and are still used as the backbone of our air superiority capabilities. What is the point of being an elite pilot of an advanced aircraft if everyone is too afraid to utilize them.[/QUOTE]
Same kinda song and dance with the Army's Apaches. Part of the problem is that they have a horrible OR rating due to it being an avionics nightmare and always has red x conditions grounding them, but also because they are expensive. The Army flies OH-58Ds out instead of apaches 90% of the time anyways, because they are cheap and effective, while having the highest OR rating in the army.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;35793465]This might not be a problem with the oxygen delivery.
"An Air Force panel is meeting weekly to investigate the problem and has enlisted the help of NASA and the Navy to learn more about what happens to the body under extreme conditions, among other things."
This suggests that it might be a design or manufacturing flaw in the aircraft. It might have to do with the forces that the body is put under when the aircraft is flying. Just because the symptoms are related to lack of oxygen doesn't mean that the pilot isn't [I]inhaling[/I] enough oxygen, only that their brain is not getting the oxygen it needs. These things happen when a pilot tries to make too sharp of a turn as well(since all the vertical G's push the blood towards the legs).
Also, since this is a few pilots(versus a majority of pilots) complaining, it might be inferred that the problem lies in the individuals(maybe their body is pre-disposed to a certain phenomena that we were previously ignorant of), or it's a problem in the individual planes(like a defect that went undetected).
Right now they don't seem to know much, so it really could be anything. However, I don't think the aircraft itself is ill-designed as far as oxygen delivery systems go. At least not necessarily.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand your logic there.
If it was an issue with the g-force on the body while flying:
1 - The pilot would know that it's because of a g-load and not the oxygen delivery system because they would feel the effects of the g-force. They said they felt dizzyness/hypoxia-like symptoms, so it's not related to the g-force at all. The symptoms of a high g-load is pretty much just pain until you hit the tunnel vision and blackout, not to mention to pull a g-load that you would actually feel you need to intentionally do it, the aircraft won't suddenly pull a huge g-load with no input from the pilot.
2 - If it was extreme g-force causing it, the pilot would be dead/airframe would be shredded, not to mention the pilot would sure as hell know if they were pulling some extreme over-g.
3 - I doubt it's a physical problem with the pilots, since they're screened in hyperbaric chambers as part of training to deal with hypoxia on a regular basis. Possible though.
Remember that there are 2 oxygen supplies in the cockpit, the pressurised cabin and the oxygen mask. I have no idea which is the issue - I assume the cockpit pressurisation, since if it was the oxygen mask they would just be able to take the mask off and breathe the oxygen in the cockpit - although it's possible that they did just that. Both the cockpit oxygen and the oxygen from the mask run on different systems (i.e the O2 is drawn from different tanks) so hopefully the issue is just isolated to one system.
It could be something as simple as the oxygen tanks on board were contaminated on a few jets, or it could be something a lot worse.
[QUOTE=Tony;35798565]I don't understand your logic there.
If it was an issue with the g-force on the body while flying:
1 - The pilot would know that it's because of a g-load and not the oxygen delivery system because they would feel the effects of the g-force. They said they felt dizzyness/hypoxia-like symptoms, so it's not related to the g-force at all. The symptoms of a high g-load is pretty much just pain until you hit the tunnel vision and blackout, not to mention to pull a g-load that you would actually feel you need to intentionally do it, the aircraft won't suddenly pull a huge g-load with no input from the pilot.
2 - If it was extreme g-force causing it, the pilot would be dead/airframe would be shredded, not to mention the pilot would sure as hell know if they were pulling some extreme over-g.
3 - I doubt it's a physical problem with the pilots, since they're screened in hyperbaric chambers as part of training to deal with hypoxia on a regular basis. Possible though.
Remember that there are 2 oxygen supplies in the cockpit, the pressurised cabin and the oxygen mask. I have no idea which is the issue - I assume the cockpit pressurisation, since if it was the oxygen mask they would just be able to take the mask off and breathe the oxygen in the cockpit - although it's possible that they did just that. Both the cockpit oxygen and the oxygen from the mask run on different systems (i.e the O2 is drawn from different tanks) so hopefully the issue is just isolated to one system.
It could be something as simple as the oxygen tanks on board were contaminated on a few jets, or it could be something a lot worse.[/QUOTE]
Thing is when you're at the altitude these guys play at you HAVE to have the oxygen forced into you by mask. Sure the cockpit is pressurized, but as you go up in altitude the amount of air you take in, without assistance, decreases and there is a point were your lungs are simply not strong enough to suck in the amount of air needed. I tend to agree with the idea that its an flaw in airframe versus the idea of a personal problem with the pilots.
[QUOTE=Fueger;35799212]Thing is when you're at the altitude these guys play at you HAVE to have the oxygen forced into you by mask. Sure the cockpit is pressurized, but as you go up in altitude the amount of air you take in, without assistance, decreases and there is a point were your lungs are simply not strong enough to suck in the amount of air needed. I tend to agree with the idea that its an flaw in airframe versus the idea of a personal problem with the pilots.[/QUOTE]
Really? Maybe my understanding is wrong, I was under the impression that the higher you went, the less oxygen there is available (i.e the 'thinner' the air), so you can breathe normally, but you just don't get enough oxygen into the lungs, hence the hypoxia. That's where the pressurised cockpit comes in. I'm pretty sure there's no direct effect on how much you can inhale/lung capacity while at altitude.
In fact I'm definitely right, on commercial flights we can breathe just fine with no assistance.
[QUOTE=verynicelady;35794626]Jokes and puns relevant to the news story are fine. Posting tired memes will still get you banned.[/QUOTE]
People are still being banned for posting relevant puns to the story.
[QUOTE=Tony;35799309]Really? Maybe my understanding is wrong, I was under the impression that the higher you went, the less oxygen there is available (i.e the 'thinner' the air), so you can breathe normally, but you just don't get enough oxygen into the lungs, hence the hypoxia. That's where the pressurised cockpit comes in. I'm pretty sure there's no direct effect on how much you can inhale/lung capacity while at altitude.
In fact I'm definitely right, on commercial flights we can breathe just fine with no assistance.[/QUOTE]
Are you a pilot? Commercially rated? If so, what kind of plane do you fly, and what altitude is it typically flown at? Do you know why the airlines give pilots different oxygen mask than the passengers or should I explain to you why?
[QUOTE=Tony;35799309]Really? Maybe my understanding is wrong, I was under the impression that the higher you went, the less oxygen there is available (i.e the 'thinner' the air), so you can breathe normally, but you just don't get enough oxygen into the lungs, hence the hypoxia. That's where the pressurised cockpit comes in. I'm pretty sure there's no direct effect on how much you can inhale/lung capacity while at altitude.
In fact I'm definitely right, on commercial flights we can breathe just fine with no assistance.[/QUOTE]
Fighter jet cockpits are pressurized and you can breathe fine at any altitude within their service range.
However during combat, pilots will don the masks that hang off the helmets and will breathe air from that. The O2 mix can be different in the mask, and the mask will keep the pilot alive in the event of a depressurization. Also extremely important is the fact that the mask will force air into you when making high G maneuvers. Normally you would be unable to breathe easily under many of the high speed turns necessary during combat, but the system recognizes the high G forces and will increase the pressure of the air heading to the mask to force air to permit the pilot to breathe.
My guess is that there is something wrong with the Oxygen generator on the aircraft. Some aircraft carry tank O2, but I think the F-22 gathers atmospheric air and has a backup tank. We have used the systems before, but perhaps something is different with the system gathering air from the atmosphere. Like perhaps it is picking up a small amount of exhaust from the engines and is forcing that into the air supply, thereby causing people who are particularly sensitive to whatever is in it to report problems.
That is a wild guess though.
[QUOTE=GunFox;35799804]Fighter jet cockpits are pressurized and you can breathe fine at any altitude within their service range.
However during combat, pilots will don the masks that hang off the helmets and will breathe air from that. The O2 mix can be different in the mask, and the mask will keep the pilot alive in the event of a depressurization. Also extremely important is the fact that the mask will force air into you when making high G maneuvers. Normally you would be unable to breathe easily under many of the high speed turns necessary during combat, but the system recognizes the high G forces and will increase the pressure of the air heading to the mask to force air to permit the pilot to breathe.
My guess is that there is something wrong with the Oxygen generator on the aircraft. Some aircraft carry tank O2, but I think the F-22 gathers atmospheric air and has a backup tank. We have used the systems before, but perhaps something is different with the system gathering air from the atmosphere. Like perhaps it is picking up a small amount of exhaust from the engines and is forcing that into the air supply, thereby causing people who are particularly sensitive to whatever is in it to report problems.
That is a wild guess though.[/QUOTE]
Did they ever figure out what caused the f-22 crash up in Alaska a while back?
[QUOTE=Fueger;35800040]Did they ever figure out what caused the f-22 crash up in Alaska a while back?[/QUOTE]
Gravity
[QUOTE=GunFox;35800236]Gravity[/QUOTE]
It strikes again.
[QUOTE=Tony;35798565]I don't understand your logic there.
If it was an issue with the g-force on the body while flying:
1 - The pilot would know that it's because of a g-load and not the oxygen delivery system because they would feel the effects of the g-force. They said they felt dizzyness/hypoxia-like symptoms, so it's not related to the g-force at all. The symptoms of a high g-load is pretty much just pain until you hit the tunnel vision and blackout, not to mention to pull a g-load that you would actually feel you need to intentionally do it, the aircraft won't suddenly pull a huge g-load with no input from the pilot.
2 - If it was extreme g-force causing it, the pilot would be dead/airframe would be shredded, not to mention the pilot would sure as hell know if they were pulling some extreme over-g.
3 - I doubt it's a physical problem with the pilots, since they're screened in hyperbaric chambers as part of training to deal with hypoxia on a regular basis. Possible though.
Remember that there are 2 oxygen supplies in the cockpit, the pressurised cabin and the oxygen mask. I have no idea which is the issue - I assume the cockpit pressurisation, since if it was the oxygen mask they would just be able to take the mask off and breathe the oxygen in the cockpit - although it's possible that they did just that. Both the cockpit oxygen and the oxygen from the mask run on different systems (i.e the O2 is drawn from different tanks) so hopefully the issue is just isolated to one system.
It could be something as simple as the oxygen tanks on board were contaminated on a few jets, or it could be something a lot worse.[/QUOTE]
the 2nd and 3rd point are partialy wrong, the F-22 is capable of taking far more Gs then the human body and in fact has built in limits in the software to how sharply it can turn, since to use it at full potential would cause the pilot to suffer most likely herniated discs and stuff like that, or in the case of negative Gs, internal decapitation, while yes, the pilots have to handle at time 10-11Gs, but never over a long period of time, even with G suits and breathing techniques, your going to pass out
This very nice lady mod doesn't seem too nice at all..those austin powers memes were funny and had the likes to prove it =(
[QUOTE=ReligiousNutjob;35793454][URL="http://facepunch.com/threads/777367"]Ahh this takes me back.[/URL]
[sp]This is the thread that caused the whole Austin Powers fiasco.[/sp]
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Quoted meme image" - verynicelady))[/highlight][/QUOTE]
I still think "Austin Powers" was one of the funniest ban reasons ever.
You can get banned for quoting? never heard that one before.
[QUOTE=viperfan7;35800319]the 2nd and 3rd point are partialy wrong, the F-22 is capable of taking far more Gs then the human body and in fact has built in limits in the software to how sharply it can turn, since to use it at full potential would cause the pilot to suffer most likely herniated discs and stuff like that, or in the case of negative Gs, internal decapitation, while yes, the pilots have to handle at time 10-11Gs, but never over a long period of time, even with G suits and breathing techniques, your going to pass out[/QUOTE]
Maximum design g-load: -3.0/+9.0 g[136]
The airframe won't shred or anything like that pushing past 9G, but you do risk damage to it, probably just a bit of flex or elastic deformation, doubt anything major would happen to the jet until 11G+. But yeah I think you're right with the flight software limiting the pilot so they can't go past 9G anyway.
[QUOTE=GunFox;35799804]Fighter jet cockpits are pressurized and you can breathe fine at any altitude within their service range.
However during combat, pilots will don the masks that hang off the helmets and will breathe air from that. The O2 mix can be different in the mask, and the mask will keep the pilot alive in the event of a depressurization. Also extremely important is the fact that the mask will force air into you when making high G maneuvers. Normally you would be unable to breathe easily under many of the high speed turns necessary during combat, but the system recognizes the high G forces and will increase the pressure of the air heading to the mask to force air to permit the pilot to breathe.
My guess is that there is something wrong with the Oxygen generator on the aircraft. Some aircraft carry tank O2, but I think the F-22 gathers atmospheric air and has a backup tank. We have used the systems before, but perhaps something is different with the system gathering air from the atmosphere. Like perhaps it is picking up a small amount of exhaust from the engines and is forcing that into the air supply, thereby causing people who are particularly sensitive to whatever is in it to report problems.
That is a wild guess though.[/QUOTE]
Yeah that's exactly my point, you can breathe fine at any altitude in a pressurised cabin until you start pulling g. Never knew that the F22 gathered atmospheric air, that's pretty sweet, but yeah could really be the problem.
[QUOTE=Fueger;35799724]Are you a pilot? Commercially rated? If so, what kind of plane do you fly, and what altitude is it typically flown at? Do you know why the airlines give pilots different oxygen mask than the passengers or should I explain to you why?[/QUOTE]
Yeah I think you need to explain why just so I can laugh at you
[QUOTE=verynicelady;35794626]Jokes and puns relevant to the news story are fine. Posting tired memes will still get you banned.[/QUOTE]
I like how you banned someone for quoting a meme, its not like its a shock image, and at that you didn't delete it so its not like you're trying to hide it from the public.
Honestly, building several hundred air superiority stealth fighters when we barely have the need for that kind of job due to the use of multirole planes, is just stupid.
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