Australian child molester Peter Scully faces death penalty in Philippines
367 replies, posted
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51110664]Aside from the armchair psychologists judging whether or not he's 'beyond help', what confuses me is that people seem to think he doesn't deserve help anyway[/QUOTE]
Do you really think that this cunt who raped, tortured, and killed several kids, and thinks that prison is a big joke is able and willing to get helped?
[editline]27th September 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51110699]When someone has Ebola, obviously you don't just let them walk around because "oh it's not their fault that they're hurting others". You keep them contained. But in the case of an Ebola patient, there isn't blame, there's treatment[/QUOTE]
A molester is not comparable to Ebola lmao
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51110801]Let's imagine he is rehabilitated and psychologically treated. why kill or imprison him then? (aside from the possibility that he isn't actually healthy)[/QUOTE]
if he could be rehabilitated and psychologically treated he still would never be accepted back into society. you couldn't sweep his crimes under the rug, they would follow him to his grave. who would want to hire someone who has done what he has done? would any landlord rent property out to him if they knew his history? he will always and forever be known for his crimes no matter how "fixed" he is.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;51111271]Well, I guess you could start by finding all the people who [B]don't[/B] torture, rape and dismember children and sell videos of it; and deem they deserve to live. Then you can sort of work backwards from there and find all the people who don't deserve to live by a process of deduction.[/QUOTE]
Once again, no actual answer here, all emotional reactionary talk
[editline]27th September 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Araknid;51111428][B]Do you really think that this cunt who raped, tortured, and killed several kids, and thinks that prison is a big joke is able and willing to get helped?
[/B]
[editline]27th September 2016[/editline]
A molester is not comparable to Ebola lmao[/QUOTE]
That's what prison is for
[editline]27th September 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Araknid;51111428]
[B]A molester is not comparable to Ebola lmao[/B][/QUOTE]
Why?
[editline]27th September 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51111514]if he could be rehabilitated and psychologically treated he still would never be accepted back into society. you couldn't sweep his crimes under the rug, they would follow him to his grave. who would want to hire someone who has done what he has done? would any landlord rent property out to him if they knew his history? he will always and forever be known for his crimes no matter how "fixed" he is.[/QUOTE]
So kill him because "Gee wizz, He probs can't get a job now"
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51111522]So kill him because "Gee wizz, He probs can't get a job now"[/QUOTE]
we have limited resources on this planet and frankly humans are not one of them. those resources would be better put to use helping those who have not committed crimes as heinous as he has as they could actually become productive members of society. this man, however, has such a minute chance of ever contributing to society that saving him will cost us more than killing him would.
your argument is rooted in emotion as well, despite you saying it is not. humans are animals like all others except we outnumber every other mammal on this planet except maybe rodents. putting effort into saving every single one who has done something that is almost universally condemned by societies is a sisyphean task at best with little to no benefit besides saving one life.
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51111522]
Why?[/QUOTE]
Because Ebola is direct harm to the carrier themselves, not just everyone around them.
People carrying ebola and spreading it usually don't do it to specifically harm others unless they are also mentally fucked up.
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51111522]So kill him because "Gee wizz, He probs can't get a job now"[/QUOTE]
So keep him alive because "Gee wizz, he probs can be rehabilitated", even though he treats prison as a holiday.]
Why keep him alive in prison if he doesn't want to be rehabilitated? To waste money? Time?
I can't think of any legit reasons to keep him alive except for 'morals!!!' if he can't be rehabilitated.
Your arguments appeal to emotion just like everyone elses btw.
Keep him alive because he's a person, and he needs help
[editline]27th September 2016[/editline]
Also saying to kill him because of resources is a little psychopathic
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51112472]and he needs help[/QUOTE]
And he doesn't want the help?
You're just appealing to emotion again.
"He's a person too!!"
No, thats MORALS, there's a difference
[editline]27th September 2016[/editline]
And the fact is, he IS a person. If he doesn't want help then keep him from society
It's not that everyone CAN be successfully rehabilitated, it's that everyone deserves help
[editline]27th September 2016[/editline]
And once again i never even said everyone CAN be fixed
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51112785]It's not that everyone CAN be successfully rehabilitated, it's that everyone deserves help
[editline]27th September 2016[/editline]
And once again i never even said everyone CAN be fixed[/QUOTE]
i fully understand he has emotions, hopes and dreams, can love and laugh, feel pain and sorrow. i know that he thinks and breathes like me. i know that when his life is snuffed out, he is gone for good and nothing will ever replace him. i know in the grand scheme of things he is likely the product of his environment, some traumatic event in his upbringing causing him to grow up broken, that had things been different he could've become a happy person with a healthy mind, that had i been in his position when i was growing up i could've ended up the same way, that you guys could be talking about whether i deserve to live or deserve to die. i very much so empathize with him. he is a person, as am i. he has a favorite color, he has probably felt the same flutter in his heart when he saw his crush as i have, he's been annoyed at getting a hair in his mouth and been nervous before a test. he has cried, and the tears rolling down his face and the anguish in his mind and chest felt the same as mine have. he is as human as they come, we feel the same.
and yet, i do not see why he deserves help. through his actions, he has destroyed several people's opportunities to be alive, to be people like us. through his actions, he has destroyed any chance of his to ever be a productive part of society. through his actions, he has made it loud and clear he does not even want to be a part of that very society he has had a clear negative effect on. to keep him around, to try and help him despite his clear refusal and lack of benefit it may have, would mean he continues to be a drain on society, a drain he has made his choice to be. to what end? a moralistic want to preserve all life, no matter the cost? we very much so live in a world of scarcity. resources spent on trying to help someone who would be, because of their own choices, completely incapable of contributing back would be resources taken from something else which likely would have a clear benefit on society. were we in a post-scarcity world, i would agree that executing him would be wrong, but we aren't there yet. we have to consider the resource cost ever more so with each day that passes.
these girls might grow up to be like him; some people here say that this guy may have had a traumatic childhood leading up to these sick fetishes. If thats true, this is gonna be a fucking looong cycle of trauma breeding.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51114024]i fully understand he has emotions, hopes and dreams, can love and laugh, feel pain and sorrow. i know that he thinks and breathes like me. i know that when his life is snuffed out, he is gone for good and nothing will ever replace him. i know in the grand scheme of things he is likely the product of his environment, some traumatic event in his upbringing causing him to grow up broken, that had things been different he could've become a happy person with a healthy mind, that had i been in his position when i was growing up i could've ended up the same way, that you guys could be talking about whether i deserve to live or deserve to die. i very much so empathize with him. he is a person, as am i. he has a favorite color, he has probably felt the same flutter in his heart when he saw his crush as i have, he's been annoyed at getting a hair in his mouth and been nervous before a test. he has cried, and the tears rolling down his face and the anguish in his mind and chest felt the same as mine have. he is as human as they come, we feel the same.
and yet, i do not see why he deserves help. through his actions, he has destroyed several people's opportunities to be alive, to be people like us. through his actions, he has destroyed any chance of his to ever be a productive part of society. through his actions, he has made it loud and clear he does not even want to be a part of that very society he has had a clear negative effect on. to keep him around, to try and help him despite his clear refusal and lack of benefit it may have, would mean he continues to be a drain on society, a drain he has made his choice to be. to what end? a moralistic want to preserve all life, no matter the cost? we very much so live in a world of scarcity. resources spent on trying to help someone who would be, because of their own choices, completely incapable of contributing back would be resources taken from something else which likely would have a clear benefit on society. were we in a post-scarcity world, i would agree that executing him would be wrong, but we aren't there yet. we have to consider the resource cost ever more so with each day that passes.[/QUOTE]
There is no overpopulation issue caused by prisoners, he may not want help, but should he ever, it should be available
Rehabilitation is a very important part of the justice system and, in the US at least, it needs to be seriously improved.
That said, I don't think that's SIRIUS' main argument against the death penalty. I think what he's trying to get across is, yes, he may not want help, but we [b]still have prison[/b] to keep him away from society. Even if he [b]can't[/b] be rehabilitated (and he probably can't), we have a solution beyond "just kill him".
I'm for rehabilitation in all instances.... where the person is capable of being rehabilitated.
A single act is forgivable. However disgusting, depraved, or "evil" that act is.
But when it comes to continued, lucid, [I]PUBLISHED[/I] acts like this, there is no hope for the individual. He was fully aware of what he did, what he was doing, and how it affected his victims.
There is no hope for rehabilitation here.
He doesn't deserve torture, or rape, or any of the many other acts that people have suggested that are equally evil. However, he clearly needs to be [I]permanently[/I] removed from society. All society. Forever.
The Prison System should do whatever is cheapest to him that ensures that he has no social contact again.
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51111522][editline]27th September 2016[/editline]
So kill him because "Gee wizz, He probs can't get a job now"[/QUOTE]
No, kill him because the even one more innocent life he takes far outweighs any potential he still has to contribute to society.
Honestly I cannot support capital punishment out of principle, but in this case I find very little reasoning for letting him live.
Execution seems an easy way out for him honestly.
I say we strap him into the machine of unspeakable doom, where your conscious and subconscious minds are repeatedly swapped rendering your fantasies pointless while everything you've known becomes impossible to grasp. Also every ten seconds it stabs your balls.
[sp]But seriously, death is too easy a way out for a monster such as this. Did any of his victims find respite? Did he give any of them an easy way out? Most likely not, so neither should he.[/sp]
Like The bird Man, I also had the misfortune of seeing the thumbnail of it. Horrible would be a understatement for what he did.
In regards to the topic of needing help, AFAIK unlike psychosis currently there is no cure/treatment available for psychopathy and the likelihood of there being one in the near future is very slim or close to none since we have no way of instilling empathy and our current understanding of it is limited so there is no help to offer. Highly doubt he is a psychotic individual. If he were, we would have heard it by now. In contrast to psychosis, psychopaths are rational and aware of their actions.
I guess at this point society would have to discuss the fate of medically declared psychopathic criminals (punishment fit the crime of course). Life imprisonment or death penalty? Do we make a separate law for this? Legally or medically speaking, psychopathy or sociopathy is not an official diagnosis. I have always been for rehabilitation and against death penalty but never really given much thought about this so it's a grey area for me and I am interested to read some of you guy's thoughts and arguments on this.
Regardless of whatever outcome it might come to for this specific case, we probably should keep him alive for now. He might be able to shed more intel and expose his network so that we can apprehend more of these bastards.
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51105209]Why do i never see anyone in threads like these asking about or even addressing the circumstances that shaped a person like this? Just talking about killing him. like that will fix it. this guy wasn't made in a vacuum, he didn't come from another planet, he was made to be who he is HERE and by the world WE LIVE IN
[/QUOTE]
Just because someone is the product of their environment does not absolve them of their crimes. We are all sentient beings, not pre-programmed machines. He made this choice, fuck em.
Kill them and be done with it.
[QUOTE=red man295;51115777]I say we strap him into the machine of unspeakable doom, where your conscious and subconscious minds are repeatedly swapped rendering your fantasies pointless while everything you've known becomes impossible to grasp. Also every ten seconds it stabs your balls.
[sp]But seriously, death is too easy a way out for a monster such as this. Did any of his victims find respite? Did he give any of them an easy way out? Most likely not, so neither should he.[/sp][/QUOTE]
So you're saying, go full [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Bear_(Black_Mirror)"]Black Mirror's "White Bear"[/URL] on him?
Normally i'm highly against the death penalty, but god damn. I guess it can be useful in some situations.
[QUOTE=The bird Man;51110577]Incase someone haven't seen it:
[video=youtube;fsCDcf63x8k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsCDcf63x8k[/video][/QUOTE]
I haven't seen this before, thanks for sharing. Added it to the OP.
[QUOTE=Teratoma;51116288]Just because someone is the product of their environment does not absolve them of their crimes. We are all sentient beings, not pre-programmed machines. He made this choice, fuck em.
Kill them and be done with it.[/QUOTE]
And he made that choice for a reason. Maybe he should spend the rest of his life in prison, but he should be given the help he needs
[editline]27th September 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=.Vel;51116411]Normally i'm highly against the death penalty, but god damn. I guess it can be useful in some situations.[/QUOTE]
USEFUL? Are you kidding?
[QUOTE=geel9;51111186]If only we could all be so morally righteous as to be okay with the killing of another human being.
Preach, brother.[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't it send the message that we're ok with him killing kids if he doesn't get a proper punishment? Just saying dude. Your argument goes both way, yet you apply it as if he didn't commit serial child-murders.
Like, take a moment to reflect next time so i don't have to make myself look bad by playing devils avocado. If you won't think of the children, at least think of me. Thanks...
[editline]27th September 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51117341]
USEFUL? Are you kidding?[/QUOTE]
He's not. He's not thinking clearly, but neither are you bleeding heart types. Like this whole thread is just one train wreck of a brainfart after another. You're being way too sympathetic to this dude and i think some of you might be really brainsick. On the other hand, painting his wall with his blood is a bit retarded.
In the end, i don't care what they do with him. just keep him separate from society. Do or do not punish him. Just keep him away. Give him a jacuzzi or a wood box. See if i give a singular shit. All i know is that he obviously can't play ball with the rest of us and it really comes down to what the phillipine's justice system wants to do with him, not this "neckbeard court of the dank cellar".
His lack of humanity and empathy shouldn't be a green light for everyone else to drop theirs. You can call me a bleeding heart just as i can call you an un empathetic savage
[QUOTE] Why do i never see anyone in threads like these asking about or even addressing the circumstances that shaped a person like this? Just talking about killing him. like that will fix it. this guy wasn't made in a vacuum, he didn't come from another planet, he was made to be who he is HERE and by the world WE LIVE IN [/QUOTE]
Millions of people face adversity but they don't kill or rape children because of it, this simply isn't an excuse.
You really are a piece of work expecting people to have empathy for this animal.
[QUOTE=Bomimo;51117525]Wouldn't it send the message that we're ok with him killing kids if he doesn't get a proper punishment? Just saying dude. Your argument goes both way, yet you apply it as if he didn't commit serial child-murders.
Like, take a moment to reflect next time so i don't have to make myself look bad by playing devils avocado. If you won't think of the children, at least think of me. Thanks...
[/QUOTE]
By what metric is ending his life an "appropriate punishment"? We simply disagree on the nature of what the "appropriate punishment" is (and, I suppose, on whether or not a "punishment" is even necessary in the sense you're thinking of.)
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;51117596]Millions of people face adversity but they don't kill or rape children because of it, this simply isn't an excuse.
You really are a piece of work expecting people to have empathy for this animal.[/QUOTE]
You're childish if you honestly think he isn't a product of his environment. Also empathy shouldn't be conditional
[editline]27th September 2016[/editline]
Also, you calling me a"piece of work" is just further result of your over aggressive, hyper reactionary, 'us vs them' mind set
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51117612]You're childish if you honestly think he isn't a product of his environment. Also empathy shouldn't be conditional
[editline]27th September 2016[/editline]
Also, you calling me a"piece of work" is just further result of your over aggressive, hyper reactionary, 'us vs them' mind set[/QUOTE]
Did you read what I said , millions of people face adversity therefore recognising that he is a product of the environment, this by no means admonishes him from blame.
Are you suggesting that if I don't feel empathy towards a child torturing, raping murderer that there is something wrong with me?
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;51117675]Did you read what I said , millions of people face adversity therefore recognising that he is a product of the environment, this by no means admonishes him from blame.
Are you suggesting that if I don't feel empathy towards a child torturing, raping murderer that there is something wrong with me?[/QUOTE]
You don't have to feel empathy for someone to not agree with killing them.
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