Ukraine on brink of 'full-scale war' with Russia, says President Poroshenko
103 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;45859462]Yeah dude Slovenia needs to get its shit together wtf man.[/QUOTE]
I was talking about the EU, which my country is also a part of. Don't be a cunt.
[QUOTE=wewt!;45859496]I was talking about the EU, which my country is also a part of. Don't be a cunt.[/QUOTE]
yea lets Gather all the EU countries together and start WWIII for s&g's.
Get real dood, nobody can help the Ukraine without starting a war with Russia. Russia is going to get it's way regardless of what anyone says or thinks. The only thing we can do is add stricter sanctions.
[QUOTE=wewt!;45859496]I was talking about the EU, which my country is also a part of. Don't be a cunt.[/QUOTE]
I understand that. But I have a problem with people calling for radical action but not actually being in a position to help or be affected by the consequences, and then later turning around and actually condemning the action you called for.
Pick a stance and stick with it. If you want NATO to intervene militarily in Ukraine then please for everybody's sake just say it already.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;45859542]yea lets Gather all the EU countries together and start WWIII for s&g's.[/QUOTE]
I never said that, learn how to read.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;45859555]I understand that. But I have a problem with people calling for radical action but not actually being in a position to help or be affected by the consequences, and then turning around and actually condemning the action you called for.
Pick a stance and stick with it. If you want NATO to intervene militarily in Ukraine then please for everybody's sake just say it already.[/QUOTE]
Before Russia stopped giving a shit about hiding their presence in Ukraine, sending troops there to help against "rebels" would not have been radical action, especially if it was in a police role. The international community having more presence during the referendum in Crimea would not have been radical action. The fact that last week we were sending clothes and donating cellphones to get carried over the border by some guy from Montenegro (my father's second wife is Ukrainian, she helped organize it) because if you send donated things via official post not all of it is [I]even going to arrive[/I] making unofficial aid a better option is down right fucking [I]embarrassing.[/I]
I'm not asking for radical aid, unless showing some slight sliver of giving a shit sounds radical to you, and considering how the US has actually done more regarding Russia than the European Union I don't see how it would. So please, stop thinking I'm the same as those 14 year olds shouting how we should nuke ISIL and kill president Russia. I'm aware that Russia is powerful, I'm also aware that hindsight is 20/20, I'm just lamenting on how we could have done more.
[QUOTE=wewt!;45859606]I never said that, learn how to read.
Before Russia stopped giving a shit about hiding their presence in Ukraine, sending troops there to help against "rebels" would not have been radical action, especially if it was in a police role. The international community having more presence during the referendum in Crimea would not have been radical action. The fact that last week we were sending clothes and donating cellphones to get carried over the border by some guy from Montenegro (my father's second wife is Ukrainian, she helped organize it) because if you send donated things via official post not all of it is [I]even going to arrive[/I] making unofficial aid a better option is down right fucking [I]embarrassing.[/I]
I'm not asking for radical aid, unless showing some slight sliver of giving a shit sounds radical to you, and considering how the US has actually done more regarding Russia than the European Union I don't see how it would. So please, stop thinking I'm the same as those 14 year olds shouting how we should nuke ISIL and kill president Russia. I'm aware that Russia is powerful, I'm also aware that hindsight is 20/20, I'm just lamenting on how we could have done more.[/QUOTE]
I like how we pretend we have to justify who the "good guy" is in this situation between rebels and who invaded who first. It's pretty apparent that if we send troops into Ukraine that Putin would do the same and all hell would break loose. At this point in time I can see why they aren't doing anything, a provocation from the EU or NATO is literally asking for war at this point. Russia isn't going to just roll over and go "sorry guys here's all of Ukraine back, won't happen again."
There's not much that honestly could have prevented this in a reasonable time frame. Supporting Ukraine while cutting support from Russia is the best option here. Sparking a war between the EU/NATO and Russia is the worst case scenario.
[QUOTE=WitheredGryphon;45862288]I like how we pretend we have to justify who the "good guy" is in this situation between rebels and who invaded who first. It's pretty apparent that if we send troops into Ukraine that Putin would do the same and all hell would break loose. At this point in time I can see why they aren't doing anything, a provocation from the EU or NATO is literally asking for war at this point. Russia isn't going to just roll over and go "sorry guys here's all of Ukraine back, won't happen again."
There's not much that honestly could have prevented this in a reasonable time frame. Supporting Ukraine while cutting support from Russia is the best option here. Sparking a war between the EU/NATO and Russia is the worst case scenario.[/QUOTE]
If NATO stepped into the conflict, Russia definitely wouldn't deploy loads of troops. Maybe they'd continue supporting the rebels with material, but unless NATO started some bullshit like trying to get Crimea back (or deploy somewhere that is [I]officially[/I] considered Russia by Russia), I don't think Putin would do anything but say "The West is supporting the Nazis in Kiev!" - eastern Ukraine might be worth more than the western parts, but it's definitely not worth more than a small time proxy war.
[QUOTE=WitheredGryphon;45862288][I]I like how we pretend we have to justify who the "good guy" is in this situation between rebels and who invaded who first.[/I] It's pretty apparent that if we send troops into Ukraine that Putin would do the same and all hell would break loose. At this point in time I can see why they aren't doing anything, a provocation from the EU or NATO is literally asking for war at this point. Russia isn't going to just roll over and go "sorry guys here's all of Ukraine back, won't happen again."
There's not much that honestly could have prevented this in a reasonable time frame. Supporting Ukraine while cutting support from Russia is the best option here. Sparking a war between the EU/NATO and Russia is the worst case scenario.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps being more aggressive regarding deployment for the purposes of aid and not warfare wouldn't have sparked a war, but would intimidate Putin enough to know not to fuck around, but you're right, it could've gone wrong easily. I get there's not much that could've been done. In the end, I'm just a bit pissed that so many people are dead.
Also I don't understand what you mean with the italicized bit
[QUOTE=wewt!;45863654]Perhaps being more aggressive regarding deployment for the purposes of aid and not warfare wouldn't have sparked a war, but would intimidate Putin enough to know not to fuck around, but you're right, it could've gone wrong easily. I get there's not much that could've been done. In the end, I'm just a bit pissed that so many people are dead.
Also I don't understand what you mean with the italicized bit[/QUOTE]
I like to think of it as the more open we are, the more open Putin will become. Eventually it could very easily escalate into a fully indirect, or even direct, conflict.
Also I just meant that with Putin hiding his intentions and lying about his troops being there, that he thinks reserves the right to call us out for getting involved there.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;45863227]If NATO stepped into the conflict, Russia definitely wouldn't deploy loads of troops. Maybe they'd continue supporting the rebels with material, but unless NATO started some bullshit like trying to get Crimea back (or deploy somewhere that is [I]officially[/I] considered Russia by Russia), I don't think Putin would do anything but say "The West is supporting the Nazis in Kiev!" - eastern Ukraine might be worth more than the western parts, but it's definitely not worth more than a small time proxy war.[/QUOTE]
Again, we're talking about the guy who reminded us that he is a nuclear power and told us not to mess with him. Call me crazy, but someone like that is bound to deploy troops if we openly deploy ours into Ukraine. However I doubt NATO would deploy unless this extended outside of Ukraine.
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