Ubuntu 15.04 (Vivid Vervet) released - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Amiga OS;47589365]Really, when did that happen?[/QUOTE] Uh ive been running systemd as default on arch for like 2 years now, you really need to get up to date with your info lol

[QUOTE=TheJoker;47593799]Isn't it still possible to use Ubuntu with the classic ui?[/QUOTE] yes, gnome classic: [url]https://www.liberiangeek.net/2013/04/no-unity-here-enable-classic-gnome-in-ubuntu-13-04/[/url] it comes with 14.04 by default (it's what im using). [editline]24th April 2015[/editline] you can also install other ones as well, i ran cinnamon for a while but it was buggy as shit.

I'm a big fan of Gnome classic, but Ubuntu Mate is almost the same thing so I'm trying that out :v:

[QUOTE=TheJoker;47593799]Isn't it still possible to use Ubuntu with the classic ui?[/QUOTE] [CODE] $ sudo apt-get install mate [/CODE] Or try the [URL=https://ubuntu-mate.org/]Ubuntu MATE[/URL] spin. [editline]e[/editline] Anyone still complaining about systemd can switch to [URL=http://voidlinux.eu/]Void[/URL] (uses runit), [URL=http://funtoo.org/]Funtoo[/URL] (uses OpenRC), [URL=http://crux.nu/]CRUX[/URL] (init scripts, probably still sysvinit), or [URL=http://http://www.slackware.com/]Slackware[/URL] (probably sysvinit too). Another option would be to ditch Linux entirely for [URL=http://www.openbsd.org/](Open)BSD[/URL]. Laugh all you want, out of all the Linux users I've known, most of them have gone the BSD way and one lost to Inferno.

[QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;47593754]Thank you for that explanation. Before that, I thought a lot of people using Ubuntu just hated the game engine for some reason.[/QUOTE] No problem, you can actually just install Ubuntu and get rid of unity yourself and install any other desktop environment instead of unity. The spin-offs are just for convenience.

[QUOTE=josm;47594431]No problem, you can actually just install Ubuntu and get rid of unity yourself and install any other desktop environment instead of unity. The spin-offs are just for convenience.[/QUOTE] For ubuntu though it will default the entire system to the spin-off half the time. I took a stock install of Ubuntu, installed XFCE, and now it says it's Xubuntu. XFCE for life.

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;47585209]I've tried switching to Ubuntu, but I could never get used to it no matter what[/QUOTE] No matter how much they improve Ubuntu, which is basically the Mac of Linux distros (whatever the fuck that means) and is supposed to be super user friendly, I still constantly run into situations where I have to wrestle with console commands and unofficial drivers and bug fixes and workarounds. They need to get Ubuntu to a point where it's actually consistently usable before they start piling on new features and themes. [sp]I haven't used Ubuntu since Karmic Koala though so I might be completely out of date on my criticism.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Qwerty Bastard;47594559]No matter how much they improve Ubuntu, which is basically the Mac of Linux distros (whatever the fuck that means) and is supposed to be super user friendly, I still constantly run into situations where I have to wrestle with console commands and unofficial drivers and bug fixes and workarounds. They need to get Ubuntu to a point where it's actually consistently usable before they start piling on new features and themes. [sp]I haven't used Ubuntu since Karmic Koala though so I might be completely out of date on my criticism.[/sp][/QUOTE] Ubuntu has come a loooong way since 9.10. Not to say you won't ever run into issues, but the only systems that really have issues on fresh install are bleeding edge hardware that don't have full support yet or nonstandard hardware. Laptops are a huge offender here. The OS itself is pretty rock solid. Anything outside of that like application usability is YMMV territory.

[QUOTE=Demache;47594929]Ubuntu has come a loooong way since 9.10. Not to say you won't ever run into issues, but the only systems that really have issues on fresh install are bleeding edge hardware that don't have full support yet or nonstandard hardware. Laptops are a huge offender here. The OS itself is pretty rock solid. Anything outside of that like application usability is YMMV territory.[/QUOTE] i got my laptop with an nvidia optimus card to work, i can even play games on it well. [editline]24th April 2015[/editline] nvidia stepped up their game after linus said fuck you to them.

So what happens when you have the menu in the titlebar (which is a stupid place to put it by the way), does the menubar at the top of the screen just sit there empty the whole time?

[QUOTE=Demache;47594929]Ubuntu has come a loooong way since 9.10. Not to say you won't ever run into issues, but the only systems that really have issues on fresh install are bleeding edge hardware that don't have full support yet or nonstandard hardware. Laptops are a huge offender here. The OS itself is pretty rock solid. Anything outside of that like application usability is YMMV territory.[/QUOTE] Laptops are a huge offender of this. Half the time Ubuntu and other distros just straight up don't work on my laptop. I had 13.04 running in a pretty stable state, then I did the upgrade to 13.10 and then Ubuntu literally wouldn't even boot anymore. The upgrade didn't fail or anything, 13.10 just didn't agree with me. Then 13.10 to 14.10 just didn't work, now 15.04 works but the graphics drivers are all fucked up and I'm working on fixing it. It's a pain. Ubuntu is very stable and user friendly for desktops and Intel HD based laptops, but fuck me if my GTX 770M doesn't cause a plethora of problems for me in the Ubuntu world. Not sure about AMD cards but I feel like they're better off. Shame Blender Cycles still doesn't have proper AMD support, that's the only thing really keeping me with Nvidia. [editline]25th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Panda X;47595240]So what happens when you have the menu in the titlebar (which is a stupid place to put it by the way), does the menubar at the top of the screen just sit there empty the whole time?[/QUOTE] Are you talking about Ubuntu Mate? You can delete the panels. Mine looks pretty standard with everything on the bottom panel, similar to Windows, LXDE, and Cinnamon.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;47585158]What's up with the hatred of systemd? I can't be fucked to read through the newgroups where people shout about it because linux super-nerds are fucking scary. But it's been pretty good for me on my Fedora install (fairly sure it runs systemd now anyway). Simple to manage, not breaking my shit as far as I know.[/QUOTE] I just don't like the way it's trying to take over the entire core ring of the system. If I run systemd, [b]everything[/b] has to be systemd, I can't replace their logger with syslog-ng, which is a huge problem because what if systemd's component breaks or starts sucking down the road? [QUOTE=Awesomecaek;47585202]It requires big chunks of GNOME and while I have nothing in particular against GNOME, it's fucking backwards to have massive parts of graphical environment in completely core system functionality. One of the massive advantages Linux has over Windows is the cleans separability of the Kernel from anything remotely graphical, which is why it can be installed on Raspberry Pi, toasters, and god knows all what. If people drag in the mammoth that GNOME is into core system functions, Linux will lose one of it's main advantages, it's a massive step backwards.[/QUOTE] You have it backwards. GNOME has a hard dependency on systemd, not the other way around [editline]25th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;47596623]but fuck me if my GTX 770M doesn't cause a plethora of problems for me[/QUOTE] The problem is not with your card, but with nouveau, the open-source nVidia drivers (and therefore the drivers that trump all others because the Linux community cares about source license more than actual function for some reason). [i]In theory[/i], you'd just tell Ubuntu to use the proprietary drivers instead with their nifty little program. But when you can't even get into your graphical desktop to use their graphical tool, it gets harder. Ubuntu really needs to start asking about graphics drivers in a terminal before ever trying X11 stuff for the first time.

A year ago when we used 8.10 to learn ubuntu (and "learn" linux commands) in school, there wasn't a day that went by when we tried to install something and that something would tell us to go fuck ourselves until we did it right or rewrote a bunch of shit via VMware. I do have to say, the non-graphical interfaces of ubuntu/linux are second to none. I was really surprised at how much power you have over... well, everything, if you use the right commands and ask the right permissions.

[QUOTE=lavacano;47599157]I just don't like the way it's trying to take over the entire core ring of the system. If I run systemd, [b]everything[/b] has to be systemd, I can't replace their logger with syslog-ng, which is a huge problem because what if systemd's component breaks or starts sucking down the road? You have it backwards. GNOME has a hard dependency on systemd, not the other way around [editline]25th April 2015[/editline] The problem is not with your card, but with nouveau, the open-source nVidia drivers (and therefore the drivers that trump all others because the Linux community cares about source license more than actual function for some reason). [i]In theory[/i], you'd just tell Ubuntu to use the proprietary drivers instead with their nifty little program. But when you can't even get into your graphical desktop to use their graphical tool, it gets harder. Ubuntu really needs to start asking about graphics drivers in a terminal before ever trying X11 stuff for the first time.[/QUOTE] Nvidia's proprietary drivers don't work much better than nouveau. For me, at least.

[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;47603640]Nvidia's proprietary drivers don't work much better than nouveau. For me, at least.[/QUOTE] well maybe it is a hardware problem in your case. I was just figuring it wasn't because nouveau in my experience has been absolute garbage :v:

Up next: Ubuntu 16.04 Wacky Wallaby Linux needs marketers.

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;47605580]Up next: Ubuntu 16.04 Wacky Wallaby Linux needs marketers.[/QUOTE] Are there any open source marketers who work on donations?

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;47605580]Up next: Ubuntu 16.04 Wacky Wallaby Linux needs marketers.[/QUOTE] Linux needs some damn agreement on the display server side. Canonical (company behind Ubuntu) fucked up with the introduction of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_%28software%29"]Mir [/URL]when everyone else had agreed on [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server_protocol)"]Wayland[/URL] The currently heavily used [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System"]X Window System[/URL] harks back from the days when Unix Mainframes were still common in even small & medium sized setups. It really needs to be put out to pasture, since it doesn't fit in that well in the day & age with personal computers.

[QUOTE=Van-man;47605726]Linux needs some damn agreement on the display server side. Canonical (company behind Ubuntu) fucked up with the introduction of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_%28software%29"]Mir [/URL]when everyone else had agreed on [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server_protocol)"]Wayland[/URL] The currently heavily used [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System"]X Window System[/URL] harks back from the days when Unix Mainframes were still common in even small & medium sized setups. It really needs to be put out to pasture, since it doesn't fit in that well in the day & age with personal computers.[/QUOTE] we do have agreement though - the plan is to tell Canonical to go fuck themselves and continue using X11 until we can consider Wayland to be ready. Then we all use Wayland (again ignoring Canonical) and everything is peachy

[QUOTE=lavacano;47605760]we do have agreement though - the plan is to tell Canonical to go fuck themselves and continue using X11 until we can consider Wayland to be ready. Then we all use Wayland (again ignoring Canonical) and everything is peachy[/QUOTE] Yeah, I know that's the general consensus, it still sucks it had to come to that.

well when your CEO openly talks shit about everyone else just because they didn't use your thing over its competitor, it kinda makes others not want to give you any control over anything

[QUOTE=lavacano;47605760]we do have agreement though - the plan is to tell Canonical to go fuck themselves and continue using X11 until we can consider Wayland to be ready. Then we all use Wayland (again ignoring Canonical) and everything is peachy[/QUOTE] Mir made me stop using Ubuntu

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;47585209]I've tried switching to Ubuntu, but I could never get used to it no matter what[/QUOTE] I fucking hate Ubuntu/Linux (part of my current course covers Linux/Ubuntu scripting), it's not for everyone.

What's it like using a different distro in terms of binary compatibility and driver compatibility? I might try something else out.

[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;47612527]What's it like using a different distro in terms of binary compatibility and driver compatibility? I might try something else out.[/QUOTE] Overall it's pretty good but can vary from software to software.

When 16.04 comes out, I'll move my server over to it, and stick with LTS Ubuntu releases, running Debian 7 right now on my server. 15.04 is a considerable improvement over the older releases, uses a fairly new kernel and they've got systemd running as the default now, so that's nice.

[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;47612527]What's it like using a different distro in terms of binary compatibility and driver compatibility? I might try something else out.[/QUOTE] If you're trying to install a program that refuses to distribute in a form other than .deb, it can be a pain in the ass. Fortunately, this isn't common. I've had absolutely no issue actually running a program that was designed for Ubuntu, not even the ones that have a hard dependency on Ubuntu specific libraries like libappindicator, and I'm a Gentoo user.

What's the best non-Ubuntu distro? I have a laptop with a GTX 770M and Intel HD, so driver support for that is important. Steam as well.

[QUOTE=Amiga OS;47616676]Fedora, easily. Works out of the box and doesn't screw me around.[/QUOTE] I have yet to try Fedora. Is it a lot like CentOS?

[QUOTE=Demache;47618446]I have yet to try Fedora. Is it a lot like CentOS?[/QUOTE] CentOS is Red Hat, except without the Red Hat branding and paid support. And Fedora is Red Hat's 'testing' distribution, although it's not THAT buggy. Expect it to be cutting edge in comparison to CentOS and Red Hat.