Cologne sex attacks: Merkel disgust at New Year gang assaults - German Chancellor Angela Merkel has - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Rainboo;49467921][...] I think you're really really missing the point of this statement. These are just additional preventative measures, not their only way of dealing with the situation. [...][/QUOTE] Adding to that: These advisories/"codes of conduct" are normal in Germany (and hence they're adding some things to the existing one while they crack down on the perpetrators). (There are ones for men and especially general ones too, iirc. You run into them somewhat often depending on your circumstances.)

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;49467972]Handing out rules for women on how to behave in public is not precaution. It's a bullshit cop-out that boils down to "those ladies were asking for it, with all their frolicking and suggestive clothes. We're not saying it's your fault but, obey this code and maybe you won't get raped again".[/QUOTE] It's not rules. [b]Suggestions[/b] are all they are. They're not forcing the ladies to keep their distancing and shit. They are [b]suggesting[/b] that they do because the reality is that crime of this nature is rampant as hell at the moment. As I said before would you rather have the government tell them "hey ladies keep doing as you please have fun like you always do, we'll catch the perpetrators before they even get to you!"? Because this is obviously not possible and taking precautions is better than nothing. [b]I don't know how good or bad of an analogy this is but, this is like, if your city gets shelled and your government tells you to hide somewhere for the duration and take cover, but you're all like "why's the government blaming the people for going out in the open when it's the fault of those who are shelling the city?".[/b]

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49467992]Btw, [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/undelete/comments/3zkjg1/rworldnews_mods_are_covering_up_the_mass_sex"]the reddit mods are acting like absolute cunts[/URL], banning and removing posts about what happened in Cologne. It's good to know we can discuss what's currently happening in Germany, without any censorship here on FP -but with *proper* moderation- at the very least. Feels good man :cat:[/QUOTE] Starred because Reddit has a huge problem with moderation, but that thread's title is inaccurate in that so far most of them seem to be North-African (as far as the last news reports I've read go).

[QUOTE=Tamschi;49468015]Starred because Reddit has a huge problem with moderation, but that thread's title is inaccurate in that so far most of them seem to be North-African (as far as the last news reports I've read go).[/QUOTE] No worries, no matter how it's reported, the mods are literally playing whack-a-mole, closing threads and banning users about it. [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/subredditcancer/comments/3zgd44/rworldnews_mods_actively_censor_story_about_rape"]Same thing is happening on /r/Europe[/URL].

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49467979]"but all I can think about is Hitler's dusty, mustached skull yelling "miss me yet, you ungrateful cunts?"" doesn't sound like a joke to me man, considering how bizarre right-wing Europeans tend to be on FP[/QUOTE] Because a post that features hitler's screaming skull with a mustache is obviously totally serious, and suggesting people might be drawn to the right wing after this event, obviously means I'm calling for ze gassing of der juden. Get real.

[QUOTE=Tamschi;49468015]Starred because Reddit has a huge problem with moderation, but that thread's title is inaccurate in that so far most of them seem to be North-African (as far as the last news reports I've read go).[/QUOTE] Same culture, same religion, same problem.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49468033]No worries, no matter how it's reported, the mods are literally playing whack-a-mole, closing threads and banning users about it. [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/subredditcancer/comments/3zgd44/rworldnews_mods_actively_censor_story_about_rape"]Same thing is happening on /r/Europe[/URL].[/QUOTE] Seriously, this migrants can do no wrong mindset is just gonna create nationalism.

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;49468039]Because a post that features hitler's screaming skull with a mustache is obviously totally serious, and suggesting people might be drawn to the right wing after this event, obviously means I'm calling for ze gassing of der juden. Get real.[/QUOTE] I got confused. Holy shit I'm retarded, it was joking in reference to that guy rather than what people have been posting in the past. Cut me some slack in that regard though, there have been serious posts more or les sin that vein in the past

You guys seem to have zeroed in on this 'women should take precautions' bit as though that's all they've said and done. It's not like they're not doing anything to punish the people who did it. Or will nothing short of 'okay, a relatively small group of these refugees think molestation is okay, we'd better not let any of them in' suffice?

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49468049]Seriously, this migrants can do no wrong mindset is just gonna create nationalism.[/QUOTE] Apparently [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/european/comments/3zmvcn/german_feminist_calls_cologne_attacks_terror"]even German feminists are pissed off about this[/URL] ([URL="http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten.de/2016/01/05/frauen-magazin-emma-nennt-gewalt-exzesse-in-koeln-terror/"]source in German[/URL]), calling it "terror". Do they not know that every action has an equal and opposite reaction? They're literally giving people more reasons to be annoyed and upset about all this.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49468049]Seriously, this migrants can do no wrong mindset is just gonna create nationalism.[/QUOTE] nobody's saying they can do no wrong. nobody not the people in this article, not anyone's government, nobody They're very much addressing that they have done wrong, and trying to understand why and what steps can be taken to make it not happen again.

Take precautions is reasonable but there is a clear double standard here.

I guess victim blaming is okay when minorities are involved.

[QUOTE=CrumbleShake;49468055]You guys seem to have zeroed in on this 'women should take precautions' bit as though that's all they've said and done. It's not like they're not doing anything to punish the people who did it. Or will nothing short of 'okay, a relatively small group of these refugees think molestation is okay, we'd better not let any of them in' suffice?[/QUOTE] Indeed, I honestly can't fathom why an ADVISORY of all things would be something bad? Victim blaming? People throw around too much buzzwords these days. An advisory for women to take care is not victim blaming. [b]An advisory is just an extra measure on top of everything else they're doing to mitigate the situation.[/b] [QUOTE=Rangergxi;49468063]Take precautions is reasonable but there is a clear double standard here.[/QUOTE] A double standard in terms of what? I'm not gonna comment if it's about race but if it's about genders, then naturally females will be more involved in the advisories because they are [b]the main victims[/b] of the harassments/rapes. [QUOTE=Vasili;49468065]I guess victim blaming is okay when minorities are involved.[/QUOTE] Again, [b]just where[/b] is the victim blaming here? All I see is an advisory for women that would possibly help in keeping possible perpetrators at bay. [b]jesus christ am i reading the same article as everyone here[/b]

Did everyone miss this bit sorry? [quote] The chancellor said everything must be done "to find the perpetrators as quickly and comprehensively as possible and punish them, regardless of their origin or background".[/quote] PC has gone mad!

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49467966]The last thing people need is to feel like a prisoner [I]in their own country[/I]. Also, I'd like to link to [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/3zmahc/german_chancellor_merkel_disgust_at_new_year_gang/cynbdix"]a relevant reddit comment[/URL]: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Vzvj3zk.png[/IMG] 110% agree with him.[/QUOTE] this whole refugee crisis is so complicated it's just like reading into the Syrian conflict and leaving with your brain in a complete fuzz I feel if Germany keeps going the way they are, they're going to get more problems. I'm all for having refugees and I think Germany's been very kind in what they're doing but they need to regulate this before it gets out of hand A lot of these people need help and a lot of them don't know much about Western norms and laws, I think education is pivotal in making the refugee crisis a success but I can't see Merkel ever doing that the way she's going

[QUOTE=Rainboo;49468070]Again, [b]just where[/b] is the victim blaming here? All I see is an advisory for women that would possibly help in keeping possible perpetrators at bay. [b]jesus christ am i reading the same article as everyone here[/b][/QUOTE] Here: [quote]Mayor Reker promised preventive measures ahead of the carnival. The authorities would warn young women about possible risks and "give a better explanation to people from other cultures about the meaning of carnival", she said.[/quote] Definitely reads like: "hey girls, might wanna stay indoors for now, at least until the big bad men out there leave the streets, lest you end up getting groped by a mob of horny dudes or worse!"

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;49468105]this whole refugee crisis is so complicated it's just like reading into the Syrian conflict and leaving with your brain in a complete fuzz I feel if Germany keeps going the way they are, they're going to get more problems. I'm all for having refugees and I think Germany's been very kind in what they're doing but they need to regulate this before it gets out of hand A lot of these people need help and [B]a lot of them don't know much about Western norms and laws[/B], I think education is pivotal in making the refugee crisis a success but I can't see Merkel ever doing that the way she's going[/QUOTE] Well if they don't know much about Western norms and laws then how much better are they than the people they're fleeing from?

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49468109]Here: "Mayor Reker promised preventive measures ahead of the carnival. The authorities would warn young women about possible risks and "give a better explanation to people from other cultures about the meaning of carnival", she said." Definitely reads like: "hey girls, might wanna stay indoors for now, at least until the big bad men out there leave the streets, lest you end up getting groped by a mob of horny dudes or worse!"[/QUOTE] I read that part and it's definitely nothing like what you mean. More like hey guys while the police do their work we'll give out advisories to women who are clearly the subjects of the threat. What is so wrong with advisories? Would you rather say hey girls go out and have fun while the big bad men roam about? They are not forcing the girls to follow the advisories. These are for their own safety. It is also the government's duty to [b]warn[/b] citizens of possible threats to them. They are blaming no one. The "explanation to other cultures" deal is an [b]additional measure[/b]. It means they're doing all that they can so they're just putting this on top. It's not all that they're doing.

[QUOTE=CrumbleShake;49468073]Did everyone miss this bit sorry? PC has gone mad![/QUOTE] PC gone mad or not, one would have to be insane to thing that anyone will get punished for this. The majority of perpetrators are gone with the wind, and anyone they happen to have in custody will be sett free because westerners(and germany in perticular) are terrified of hurting the feelings of minorities. The Politicians and police who let this happen will get a symbolic slap on the wrist and it will be back to business as usual. A least until it happens again, witch might be very soon judging by current trends.

[QUOTE=Rainboo;49468130]I read that part and it's definitely nothing like what you mean. More like hey guys while the police do their work we'll give out advisories to women who are clearly the subjects of the threat. What is so wrong with advisories? Would you rather say hey girls go out and have fun while the big bad men roam about? They are not forcing the girls to follow the advisories. These are for their own safety. It is also the government's duty to [B]warn[/B] citizens of possible threats to them. They are blaming no one. The "explanation to other cultures" deal is an [B]additional measure[/B]. It means they're doing all that they can so they're just putting this on top. It's not all that they're doing.[/QUOTE] "Those poor refugees, they don't know rape is wrong! We have to [I]explain it[/I] to them!" So instead of *doing* something about this whole mess, you think warning people to be more careful when out in the streets is better...

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49468159]"Those poor refugees, they don't know rape is wrong! We have to [I]explain it[/I] to them!" So instead of *doing* something about this whole mess, you think warning people to be more careful when out in the streets is better...[/QUOTE] Hold on let me get all my posts in this thread. [QUOTE=Rainboo;49467549]It's a [b]SUGGESTED[/b] code of conduct and they are not blaming the women. They are telling the women to be MORE CAREFUL because there are dangerous people wandering about. The police are obviously doing their best to find the perpetrators and have already detained some people. Obviously some temporary measures and advisories will be put in place because you can't just solve a problem INSTANTLY. What the flying fuck is wrong with you guys? Suggesting that women be more careful in the face of danger is victim blaming? The fuck? Kneejerk reactions just make everything worse. I'm all for women being able to have fun as they want and do as they please, just like men. But THE REALITY IS that there are groups going about sexually harassing women. While these people are running free, it's expected that women who are obviously their targets be more cautious.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Rainboo;49467604]And that's exactly why, now that they are fully aware of the situation, they have to take PRECAUTIONS for their own safety until the government finds a way to mitigate the situation. I know it's a sad situation and all but since women are obviously the main victims out of it, I think it would be a lot better if they took precautions for now. The situation or at least how media portrays it to be, is rather dire and I think it would be best to sacrifice a little fun for their own safety for now. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely despise the men who are behind this, and I absolutely believe that they 100% are the ones at fault. This is just the reality of the situation.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Rainboo;49467628]Not all cases are the same. I'd like to think that anything that might help prevent the situation is something to be considered. Going with a group is always better than going alone in cases like these, and keeping your distance too. With how persistent they are, everything that might help, helps. Like perhaps there could be a case of there being three men looking for people they can victimize. A woman travelling alone would be easy prey compared to two women walking with two men, you know what I mean. As ideal as a statement such as "keep doing as you please, women. leave it to the government to catch the perpetretors." could be, it's simply not possible. The government has to tell the women to take precautions because there is a clear threat to them.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Rainboo;49467921][b]"The chancellor said everything must be done "to find the perpetrators as quickly and comprehensively as possible and punish them, regardless of their origin or background"."[/b] No one is blaming the women for dressing the way they did. The government is only calling for [b]precaution[/b]. [b]"Mayor Reker promised preventive measures ahead of the carnival. The authorities would warn young women about possible risks and "give a better explanation to people from other cultures about the meaning of carnival", she said."[/b] I think you're really really missing the point of this statement. These are just additional preventative measures, not their only way of dealing with the situation. Rape is indeed unacceptable, regardless of culture, and the whole "explaining to other cultures the meaning of carnival" thing is most likely futile as these are not kids they are dealing with, but fully grown adults doing this with the knowledge that rape is not a good thing, but then again, these are just additional preventative measures. Basically a "better than nothing" kind of thing because there's not really much else they can do, aside from police action.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Rainboo;49468007]It's not rules. [b]Suggestions[/b] are all they are. They're not forcing the ladies to keep their distancing and shit. They are [b]suggesting[/b] that they do because the reality is that crime of this nature is rampant as hell at the moment. As I said before would you rather have the government tell them "hey ladies keep doing as you please have fun like you always do, we'll catch the perpetrators before they even get to you!"? Because this is obviously not possible and taking precautions is better than nothing. [b]I don't know how good or bad of an analogy this is but, this is like, if your city gets shelled and your government tells you to hide somewhere for the duration and take cover, but you're all like "why's the government blaming the people for going out in the open when it's the fault of those who are shelling the city?".[/b][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Rainboo;49468070]Indeed, I honestly can't fathom why an ADVISORY of all things would be something bad? Victim blaming? People throw around too much buzzwords these days. An advisory for women to take care is not victim blaming. [b]An advisory is just an extra measure on top of everything else they're doing to mitigate the situation.[/b] A double standard in terms of what? I'm not gonna comment if it's about race but if it's about genders, then naturally females will be more involved in the advisories because they are [b]the main victims[/b] of the harassments/rapes. Again, [b]just where[/b] is the victim blaming here? All I see is an advisory for women that would possibly help in keeping possible perpetrators at bay. [b]jesus christ am i reading the same article as everyone here[/b][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Rainboo;49468130]I read that part and it's definitely nothing like what you mean. More like hey guys while the police do their work we'll give out advisories to women who are clearly the subjects of the threat. What is so wrong with advisories? Would you rather say hey girls go out and have fun while the big bad men roam about? They are not forcing the girls to follow the advisories. These are for their own safety. It is also the government's duty to [b]warn[/b] citizens of possible threats to them. They are blaming no one. t The "explanation to other cultures" deal is an [b]additional measure[/b]. It means they're doing all that they can so they're just putting this on top. It's not all that they're doing.[/QUOTE] There you go. The government is not [b]just warning[/b] the women. The are giving out these advisories WHILE ACTIVELY combating the threat. I will never get what is SO WRONG with the advisory. This is not victim blaming it's just an advisory. A precaution. An additional preventative measure. When all measures are being exhausted at the moment you just add these little things on top in case they might help. This is not victim blaming.

[QUOTE=Rainboo;49468172]Hold on let me get all my posts in this thread.[/QUOTE] Which people already disagreed with. Do you expect people to change their minds if you say the same thing again?

[QUOTE=Flumbooze;49468118]Well if they don't know much about Western norms and laws then how much better are they than the people they're fleeing from?[/QUOTE] I'd say a fair amount know how to behave but you've got the bad eggs like these 8 fuckwits who have to ruin it for everyone and are perfect fodder for the right wing movement education is key to lowering crime, education needs to be on Merkel's agenda to keep her from losing the next election again, I'd say most of these people do know how to act and behave in a western society, but no matter who you bring in, you're going to have assholes to spoil it and if they dont want to fit in, the law will punish them to how it sees fit

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;49468188]Which people already disagreed with. Do you expect people to change their minds if you say the same thing again?[/QUOTE] All I see are people who cry victim blaming over what is in essence, a simple advisory undeserving of such an outcry. Just the government doing its job. Not referring to the situation with the immigrants fyi just the sexual harassment situation in general. Would you care to elaborate how an advisory is victim blaming? Oh my oh my, the government is trying to give the women advice to keep safe while they do what they can to mitigate the threat. They can choose whether to follow it or not.[b] HOW OPPRESSIVE!!!!!!!!11111[/b]

What's with the group of morons on here saying that Rainboo is victim blaming? Honestly calm down and gather your thoughts. It's sad that I have to repeat what has ALREADY been said, but he's merely promoting what the German authorities are saying: as a woman, remain vigilant since there was a mass sexual assault perpetrated by refugees on women. So who has been blamed here? Obviously the refugees, after all they did the crime. No one here is blaming the woman WHAT the fuck lol. Obviously in the meantime the police department there have to work out how they're going to deal with this swarm of rapists.

[QUOTE=Rainboo;49468204]All I see are people who cry victim blaming over what is in essence, a simple advisory undeserving of such an outcry. Just the government doing its job. Not referring to the situation with the immigrants fyi just the sexual harassment situation in general. Would you care to elaborate how an advisory is victim blaming? Oh my oh my, the government is trying to give the women advice to keep safe while they do what they can to mitigate the threat. They can choose whether to follow it or not.[b] HOW OPPRESSIVE!!!!!!!!11111[/b][/QUOTE] The advisory isn't what gets a bee in my bonnet, its them acting like the asshats committing the crimes are poor souls who just don't know any better.

[QUOTE=Hanso;49468258]The advisory isn't what gets a bee in my bonnet, its them acting like the asshats committing the crimes are poor souls who just don't know any better.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure that's the case because: [b]"The chancellor said everything must be done "to find the perpetrators as quickly and comprehensively as possible and punish them, regardless of their origin or background""[/b] I think the whole "educating the foreigners" thing is just an extra measure for the rest of the refugees and not for those who already committed the crimes. It's something I guess, as dumb and futile as it may be. Although if it IS indeed the case I would find your statement agreeable. I was generally referring to those who were just crying out "victim blaming" though. [QUOTE=Antlerp;49468256]What's with the group of morons on here saying that Rainboo is victim blaming? Honestly calm down and gather your thoughts. It's sad that I have to repeat what has ALREADY been said, but he's merely promoting what the German authorities are saying: as a woman, remain vigilant since there was a mass sexual assault perpetrated by refugees on women. So who has been blamed here? Obviously the refugees, after all they did the crime. No one here is blaming the woman WHAT the fuck lol. Obviously in the meantime the police department there have to work out how they're going to deal with this swarm of rapists.[/QUOTE] I want to hug this person right now. FINALLY someone who gets what I have been trying to say for so so long. /tears

[QUOTE=Hyperbole;49468048]Same culture, same religion, same problem.[/QUOTE] Considering the regions are further away from each other than Europe is wide, I consider that rather doubtful. I mean even if you look at Germany and France they belong to very different cultural groups even though they're both predominantly Christian and normally described as Western cultures. (I know it's not nearly the same scale, but neither is the distance since these countries are actually adjacent.) [QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49468061]Apparently [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/european/comments/3zmvcn/german_feminist_calls_cologne_attacks_terror"]even German feminists are pissed off about this[/URL] ([URL="http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten.de/2016/01/05/frauen-magazin-emma-nennt-gewalt-exzesse-in-koeln-terror/"]source in German[/URL]), calling it "terror". Do they not know that every action has an equal and opposite reaction? They're literally giving people more reasons to be annoyed and upset about all this.[/QUOTE] German feminism isn't actually that "intersectional" stuff and mostly sane, so it's not exactly a surprise. There are a few people here who are very radical, but if they try to slander someone German law steps in pretty quickly. Alice Schwarzer, the author of that quote, is one of those radicals though and ran into legal trouble that way multiple times. (She seems to be a pretty bad person overall, committing tax fraud for about three decades and effectively embezzling state funding elsewhere.) [QUOTE=CrumbleShake;49468062]nobody's saying they can do no wrong. nobody not the people in this article, not anyone's government, nobody They're very much addressing that they have done wrong, and trying to understand why and what steps can be taken to make it not happen again.[/QUOTE] Pretty much this. That Germany doesn't have a tendency for knee-jerk reactions doesn't mean people here are doing nothing. You're just not going to hear much about the proceedings for a while so they can catch as many perpetrators as possible. Everything else is also going to be debated, but German politics are known for being awfully uneventful most of the time because it's done without huge confrontation for the most part. (Normally politicians apologise later if it happens.) [QUOTE=CrumbleShake;49468073]Did everyone miss this bit sorry? [quote]The chancellor said everything must be done "to find the perpetrators as quickly and comprehensively as possible and punish them, regardless of their origin or background".[/quote] PC has gone mad![/QUOTE] It's possible quite a few people are confused because they aren't familiar with the German version of due process and thorough investigations. Crimes aren't public spectacles here, unlike in the US, so that you can't follow everything via liveblogs doesn't mean they aren't working on it as fast as possible behind the scenes. [QUOTE=Hanso;49468258]The advisory isn't what gets a bee in my bonnet, its them acting like the asshats committing the crimes are poor souls who just don't know any better.[/QUOTE] As far as I've read the news articles posted so far, no-one's actually doing that though. The major of Cologne [I]maybe[/I] but it's mostly really a stretch and the sentence the The Independent cites I consider most in this direction really could be interpreted either way. I'd have to see the German original and especially the context, but it's not linked from the article. If I find a clear example, I'll tell whoever wrote that that they're being an idiot though.

Jesus Christ guys,Rainboo isn't blaming these women for going out and 'provoking' these monsters into groping them as you guys have misinterpreted,I still think this situation proves that the Refugee situation has been mishandled completely with rising consequences but come on guys,at least read what the man has to say before you go off about the political correctness