[QUOTE=Code3Response;49148106]Arrested for activities [I]outside[/I] the US, mind you. We are talking about foreign terrorists who entered under a false-flag as a refugee and completed, or attempted (I guess) a terrorist attack in the US.. in which there have been none.
There is heavy recruiting of teens in MN of a certain demographic that are then sent overseas to perform terrorist attacks against others including the US.[/QUOTE]
So, does this count (being that it is an activity inside the US)?
[quote]a sting operation in Kentucky was mounted to bait Alwan with a scheme hatched by an undercover operative recruited by the FBI, who offered Alwan the opportunity to ship heavy arms to al Qaeda in Iraq. The FBI wanted to know if Alwan was part of a local terror cell -- a fear that grew when he tapped a relative also living in Bowling Green, Hammadi, to help out.[/quote]
Or it's fine so long as they only use resources from within the country to kill, or help to kill, Americans in other countries?
[QUOTE=Trekintosh;49147600]Good. We're laughably incapable of dealing with our own poor and homeless. What are we supposed to do with Syria's?[/QUOTE]
Reap what the US has sown.
[QUOTE=Exploders;49147608]If Europe can take care of a couple hundred thousand refugees I'm sure the US can as well.[/QUOTE]
Trick question: it can't
[QUOTE=Scot;49148103]That's so america, bomb countries to oblivion then turn away the refugees created[/QUOTE]
These refugees were created by the Syrian Civil War, which the US did not cause.
[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;49147658]Seriously guys, isn't USA like, the most wealthy, powerful country on the planet? Why should it all fall to Turkey and Lebenon, countries that haven't done shit to the region and haven't been bombing the fuck out of it for the last 10 years or so.[/QUOTE]
no and extra fucking no
45 million Americans are below the poverty line and about half a million are homeless across the country. our geographic size prevents us from enjoying the policies that tiny-ass European countries put in place and since we're divided into 50 states, nobody can ever agree on what the fuck we should be doing.
[QUOTE=Scot;49148103]That's so america, bomb countries to oblivion then turn away the refugees created[/QUOTE]
Blame America for the worlds problems? America didn't instruct ISIS or create the texts that justify their behavior. I also really doubt Saddam, Assad and the like would have lasted in a world without Americas wasteful wars. We'd probably still see these dictatorships falling apart and civil war erupting over sect, ethnicity and politics.
My grandparents did not come to America from Italy to see this country overrun by immigrants.
Everyone in this thread is a filthy dirty xenophobe racist for wanting to divert your economic and social resources to your own people first. You will bow down and accept people with a totally different culture into your country furthering the already problematic integration that has been 'reached' during the last 30-40 years or else you are a no-good dirty filthy racist. You think those lives are worth less than an Americans?! Wow really.
Apparently, if you ask BDA.
[QUOTE=Scot;49148103]That's so america, bomb countries to oblivion then turn away the refugees created[/QUOTE]
Last I checked the syrians were the ones who bombed their countrymen, we are bombing the guys who have taken half of Iraq because Syria kept bombing itself
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49148779]Blame America for the worlds problems? America didn't instruct ISIS or create the texts that justify their behavior. I also really doubt Saddam, Assad and the like would have lasted in a world without Americas wasteful wars. We'd probably still see these dictatorships falling apart and civil war erupting over sect, ethnicity and politics.[/QUOTE]
Woa woah. I'm not in the blame-america-for-everything camp but you can't deny that America's meddling in the middle-east is what gave rise to all sorts of terrorist movements, including Al-Qaeda and ISIS.
America keeps openly and clandestinely meddling in Middle-Eastern politics. Trying to replace political leader with more Western oriënted ones, and delivering weapons and resources to parties more favorable to Western orientation.
A lot of things America did are wrong to the core, especially here. Talk about 'bringing democracy'.
You didn't mean to set the middle-East on fire whilst you were doing it, but it still was something that resulted from what America did.
[QUOTE=Scot;49148103]That's so america, bomb countries to oblivion then turn away the refugees created[/QUOTE]
what an astonishingly spiteful, uneducated, ignorant post
what this post tells me about you, as a person, is that you will take literally any unrelated global event and try to spin it into generic "fuck amerikkka" vitriol
[editline]19th November 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rumbler;49148831]Al-Qaeda[/QUOTE]
nope, that was the soviets
[quote]ISIS.[/quote]
nope, that was the assad government, and indirectly, also the soviets
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;49148834]what an astonishingly spiteful, uneducated, ignorant post
what this post tells me about you, as a person, is that you will take literally any unrelated global event and try to spin it into generic "fuck amerikkka" vitriol
[editline]19th November 2015[/editline]
nope, that was the soviets
nope, that was the assad government, and indirectly, also the soviets[/QUOTE]
No, this is an uneducated, ignorant post. I hope people honestly don't believe this what's being said here.
America had a massive role in everything you mentioned. Get the fuck over it, nobody cares how cliche you think it is to talk about US foreign policy and any blame it shares.
Indeed, many europeans feel that they are carrying the burden for American foreign policy adventures, and that's coming from our allies, not muslims, leftists, etc.
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;49148834]what an astonishingly spiteful, uneducated, ignorant post
what this post tells me about you, as a person, is that you will take literally any unrelated global event and try to spin it into generic "fuck amerikkka" vitriol
[editline]19th November 2015[/editline]
nope, that was the soviets
nope, that was the assad government, and indirectly, also the soviets[/QUOTE]
Hahaha that's hilarious. "U TRY EVRYTIN TO MAKE MURICA LUK BAD"
Next sentence "The Soviets did it all".
You are dilusional.
[b]1. America didn't invade Iraq 'because of the WMD's' that everyone knew didn't exist, and also turned out not to exist?[/b]
[b]2. America didn't meddle in Syrian coups in 1949?[/b]
[quote]Syria became an independent republic in 1946, but the March 1949 Syrian coup d'état, led by Army Chief of Staff Husni al-Za'im, ended the initial period of civilian rule. [b]Za'im met at least six times with CIA operatives in the months prior to the coup to discuss his plan to seize power. Za'im requested American funding or personnel, but it is not known whether this assistance was provided. [u]Once in power, Za'im made several key decisions that benefited the United States.[/u][/b] He approved the Trans-Arabian Pipeline (TAPLINE), an American project designed to transport Saudi Arabian oil to Mediterranean ports. Construction of TAPLINE had been delayed due to Syrian intransigence. Za'im also improved relations with two American allies in the region: Israel and Turkey. He signed an armistice in 1949 with Israel, formally ending the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, and he renounced Syrian claims to Hatay Province, a major source of dispute between Syria and Turkey. Za'im also cracked down on local communists. However, Za'im's regime was short-lived. He was overthrown in August, just four and a half months after seizing power.[/quote]
[b]3. America didn't meddle in overthrowing Irans democratically elected government in 1953?[/b]
[quote]In 1953, the [b]CIA worked with the United Kingdom to [u]overthrow the democratically elected government of Iran[/u] led by Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh who had attempted to nationalize Iran's petroleum industry, threatening the profits of the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, now known as BP.[/b][5] Declassified CIA documents show that Britain was fearful of Iran's plans to nationalize its oil industry and pressed the U.S. to mount a joint operation to depose the prime minister and install a puppet regime.[6] In 1951 the Iranian parliament voted to nationalize the petroleum fields of the country.[6][7]
[b]The coup was led by CIA operative Kermit Roosevelt, Jr. (grandson of President Theodore Roosevelt). With help from British intelligence, the CIA planned, funded and implemented Operation Ajax.[/b][8] In the months before the coup, [/b]the UK and U.S. imposed a boycott of the country, exerted other political pressures, and conducted a massive covert propaganda campaign to create the environment necessary for the coup.[/b] The CIA hired Iranian agents provocateurs who [b[posed as communists, harassed religious leaders and staged the bombing of one cleric's home to turn the Islamic religious community against the government.[/b] [b][u]For the U.S. audience, the CIA hoped to plant articles in U.S. newspapers saying that Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlevi's return to govern Iran resulted from a homegrown revolt against what was being represented to the U.S. public as a communist-leaning government. The CIA successfully used its contacts at the Associated Press to put on the newswire in the U.S. a statement from Tehran about royal decrees that the CIA itself had written.[/b][/u][6]
[/quote]
[b]4. America didn't fund Al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden?[/b]
[b]5. America didn't meddle in overthrowing the democratically elected government of Iraq in 1960?[/b]
[quote][b]In February 1960, the United States planned a coup against the government of Iraq headed by Prime Minister Abd al-Karim Qasim, who two years earlier had deposed the Western-allied Iraqi monarchy.[/b] Qasim's rule has been described as authoritarian and dictatorial. The U.S. was [b]concerned[/b] about the [b]growing influence of Iraqi Communist Party government officials under his administration[/b], as well as his threats to invade Kuwait, which almost caused a war between Iraq and Britain.
According to the Church Committee, the [b]CIA planned a "special operation" to "incapacitate" an Iraqi Colonel believed to be "promoting Soviet bloc political interests in Iraq." The aim was to send Qasim a poisoned handkerchief, "which, while not likely to result in total disablement, would be certain to prevent the target from pursuing his usual activities for a minimum of three months."[/b] During the course of the Committee's investigation, the CIA stated that the handkerchief was "in fact never received (if, indeed, sent)." It added that the colonel: "Suffered a terminal illness before a firing squad in Baghdad (an event we had nothing to do with) after our handkerchief proposal was considered.[/quote]
And this shit goes on and on. I'm not bothered to make a post that covers everything since I'm afraid of taking up a whole page here, and that's just the shit we found out about. America is still doing it to this day, and has done many of these types of clandestine operations.
And it's partially lit the world on fire, and now you don't want to hear it....
I think you should shut up for a second here and read into the shit your country is pulling and has pulled worldwide.
Suggest reading into how many weapons your country delivers to questionable groups as well.
[QUOTE=Conscript;49148897]No, this is an uneducated, ignorant post. I hope people honestly don't believe this what's being said here.[/QUOTE]
way to provide counter-argument, buckaroo
i can explain in point-by-point detail how the soviet invasion of afghanistan led directly to the creation of both ISIS and al-qaeda, can you do the same for your misguided point of view on the situation?
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;49148913]way to provide counter-argument, buckaroo
i can explain in point-by-point detail how the soviet invasion of afghanistan led directly to the creation of both ISIS and al-qaeda, can you do the same for your misguided point of view on the situation?[/QUOTE]
Yup read above, I just slapped you in the face with a wall of text.
Go, I'll gladly hear from you.
As a bonus I'll glady present you the Contra-affiar, and the coupe in Chile where Pinochet overthrew the democratically elected government.
America is meddling in politics all over the world, and lighting fires wherever they go.
[QUOTE=Rumbler;49148932]Yup read above, I just slapped you in the face with a wall of text.
Go, I'll gladly hear from you.[/QUOTE]
oh ouch you slapped me in the face over the internet that really hurt
go ahead and tell me what you know about abu musab al-zarqawi and jama'at al-tawhid wal-jihad
[editline]19th November 2015[/editline]
i never once said that the US never meddled in middle eastern affairs
i'm saying this current situation in the middle east is to be blamed more on the soviets and their puppet the PDPA for creating root instability in afghanistan, which was thriving before the invasion, than on the US, for toppling the saddam regime and destabilizing iraq
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;49148939]oh ouch you slapped me in the face over the internet that really hurt
go ahead and tell me what you know about abu musab al-zarqawi and jama'at al-tawhid wal-jihad
[editline]19th November 2015[/editline]
i never once said the the US never meddled in middle eastern affairs
i'm saying this current situation in the middle east is to be blamed more on the soviets than the US[/QUOTE]
Yeah I'm not actually going to dilude this conversation yet.
Please acknowledge, or prove wrong my accusations of USA meddling in the middle-east and it's politics and how that hasn't at least helped give rise to terrorism.
Al-Qaeda are sometimes argued for as freedom fighters, fighting against unethical international meddling in their sovereign affairs.
Before you replace the blame, at least acknowledge, or either disprove USA's involvement.
[editline]20th November 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;49148939]
i never once said that the US never meddled in middle eastern affairs
i'm saying this current situation in the middle east is to be blamed more on the soviets and their puppet the PDPA for creating root instability in afghanistan, which was thriving before the invasion, than on the US, for toppling the saddam regime and destabilizing iraq[/QUOTE]
Oh wow that's way different from "NO that was the soviets" and "no that was the soviets too" and "stop trying to turn everything into blaming america".....
Because you're neckdeep into it! Meanwhile, we're (Europe) dealing with the refugee-fallout from the latest explosion of violence, and your country today has refused to take in Syrian refugees.
Congrats, you're in a total state of denial.
[b]I'll take your acknowledgement of the USA's involvement is to be found in the omission of your refusal?[/b]
ok buddy, show me where i said that the US is absolved of all blame
you're trying to steer this argument to fit your agenda, all i did was say that the organizations al-qaeda and ISIS directly trace their roots to the soviet-afghan war
[editline]19th November 2015[/editline]
"dilude this conversation" lmfao get outta your own ass pal
[editline]19th November 2015[/editline]
also you never told me what you know about abu musab al-zarqawi and jama'at al-tawhid wal-jihad
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;49148976]ok buddy, show me where i said that the US is absolved of all blame
you're trying to steer this argument to fit your agenda, all i did was say that the organizations al-qaeda and ISIS directly trace their roots to the soviet-afghan war[/QUOTE]
You literally said "NO that was the Soviets" and "NO that was also the soviets"
How much more can you try to deny that America is involved whatsoever.
You didn't say, "Ok maybe we're involved, but we're not the sole instigators."
What the hell is my agenda even then?
[QUOTE=Rumbler;49148993]You literally said "NO that was the Soviets" and "NO that was also the soviets"[/QUOTE]
yeah, i said the direct creation of al-qaeda and isis can be blamed on the soviet invasion of afghanistan
i don't know how much more clear i can make this
[editline]19th November 2015[/editline]
your agenda is generic eurotrash anti-american diatribe
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;49149001]yeah, i said the direct creation of al-qaeda and isis can be blamed on the soviet invasion of afghanistan
i don't know how much more clear i can make this[/QUOTE]
Whilst pretending that America is uninvolved and even challenging Conscript there to defend what he said, as if he wasn't going to able to.
Nobody said Russian is innocent either, but you were quite eager to pretend the USA didnt have anything to do with the shitstorm going on currently.
I'm not going to spend more time on this unless you're going to be dishonest again in this topic about USA's political interference internationally.
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;49149001]
[editline]19th November 2015[/editline]
your agenda is generic eurotrash anti-american diatribe[/QUOTE]
Ok thank you for saying that because at least now I know I can safely ignore you in the future since you're a total idiot.
This is completely ridiculous.
Guess I'm also anti-EU for criticising their politics, and anti-Russian for criticising their politics as well then.
Apparently I'm a damn Anarchist by your logic, since I find it honest to describe and acknowledge faults where I see them, no matter if I'm involved or not.
Ridiculous of me, is it not?
Go to sleep stars&stripes.
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;49148913]way to provide counter-argument, buckaroo
i can explain in point-by-point detail how the soviet invasion of afghanistan led directly to the creation of both ISIS and al-qaeda, can you do the same for your misguided point of view on the situation?[/QUOTE]
I'll pass. I don't really take seriously people who blame the USSR and Arab nationalism/socialism for the rise of Islamism, because it was a right wing power bloc opposed to the two consisting of petro-arab monarchies, Islamic conservatives, and American imperialists that destroyed them, used jihadists against them, and directly led to the rise of Islamism (which didn't really exist until the late 20th century, during the decline of both the USSR and Arab nationalism/socialism) after the fact. Further, there is evidence of cynical use of jihadists to counter secular nationalism and socialism in the middle east, from Hamas and the PFLP, the Mujahideen and the DRA, to Sunni rebels and the Baathist dictatorships.
[QUOTE=Conscript;49149032]I'll pass. I don't really take seriously people who blame the USSR and Arab nationalism/socialism for the rise of Islamism, because it was a right wing power bloc opposed to the two consisting of petro-arab monarchies, Islamic conservatives, and American imperialists that destroyed them, used jihadists against them, and directly led to the rise of Islamism (which didn't really exist until the late 20th century, during the decline of both the USSR and Arab nationalism/socialism) after the fact. Further, there is evidence of cynical use of jihadists to counter secular nationalism and socialism in the middle east, from Hamas and the PFLP, the Mujahideen and the DRA, to Sunni rebels and the Baathist dictatorships.[/QUOTE]
Lol at least you're from America. He won't be able to call you eurotrash operating under an anti-america paradigm.
It's not racist to be of the opinion that we shouldn't accept these refugees.
It [I]is[/I] racist to say that these refugees are likely to be terrorists because they're muslim.
It is down right stupid to suggest that the refugees are likely to be terrorists because they're islamic.
However, to suggest that the refugees might be (unknowingly) hiding elements of ISIS because they are coming from a region that has a large ISIS presence isn't a racist argument. It's a logical one.
[QUOTE=Rumbler;49149015]Whilst pretending that America is uninvolved[/quote]
show me where i said america was uninvolved in the middle east, or "pretended" i guess, or stop fucking putting words in my mouth
[quote]and even challenging Conscript there to defend what he said, as if he wasn't going to able to.[/quote]
yeah, he fucking won't be able to, because the timeline of the creation of al-qaeda and isis is a very well-documented one that traces directly back to 1979 when the soviets invaded afghanistan
[quote]Nobody said Russia[B]n???[/B] is innocent either, but you were quite eager to pretend the USA didnt have anything to do with the shitstorm going on currently.[/quote]
the shitstorm going on currently is primarily a war of conquest and ideology being waged by ISIS, a group who's history can, i say again, be traced directly to the soviet-afghan war
[quote]I'm not going to spend more time on this unless you're going to be dishonest again in this topic about USA's political interference internationally.[/QUOTE]
i was never being dishonest, you've just been putting words in my mouth this entire time
[QUOTE=UziXxX;49149044]It's not racist to be of the opinion that we shouldn't accept these refugees.
It [I]is[/I] racist to say that these refugees are likely to be terrorists because they're muslim.
It is down right stupid to suggest that the refugees are likely to be terrorists because they're islamic.
However, to suggest that the refugees might be (unknowingly) hiding elements of ISIS because they are coming from a region that has a large ISIS presence isn't a racist argument. It's a logical one.[/QUOTE]
This times a hundred. Completely true.
Except for I"ve been called a racist or a xenophobe several times already for saying the exact same thing here.
[QUOTE=Conscript;49149032]I'll pass. I don't really take seriously people who blame the USSR and Arab nationalism/socialism for the rise of Islamism[/QUOTE]
yep stop right there bud
i'm talking about and this whole time have been talking about al-qaeda and isis specifically, not Islamism In General™
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;49149075]yep stop right there bud
i'm talking about and this whole time have been talking about al-qaeda and isis specifically, not Islamism In General™[/QUOTE]
Doesn't even matter:
Hey guys ISIS and Al Qaeda can be traced back to that international mujahideen stoked and coordinated by our allies in places like Pakistan and Sunni monarchies and supplied by us. Fucking russians.
They still exist today because we're still destroying secular muslim nation-states, which threaten Israel and the Sunni monarchies, and they're now turning into sectarian, tribalist shit holes with Sunni muslims manipulated by the US and gulf monarchies on one side and Shi'ites controlled by Iran on the other. Before then, there was no Al Qaeda in Iraq or a 'salafist principality' (pentagon's words) in Syria. Let's blame Brezhnev.
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;49149075]yep stop right there bud
i'm talking about and this whole time have been talking about al-qaeda and isis specifically, not Islamism In General™[/QUOTE]
How shortsighted are you that you pretend like Al-Qaeda and ISIS aren't directly related to Islamism, and the unrest that, amongst others, the US has been stoking in the Middle-East?
[QUOTE=Rumbler;49149096]How shortsighted are you that you pretend like Al-Qaeda and ISIS aren't directly related to Islamism, and the unrest that, amongst others, the US has been stoking in the Middle-East?[/QUOTE]
you keep saying i'm "pretending" this and that immediately before you put words in my mouth
it's kinda pissing me off
again, i never said at any point that al-qaeda and isis aren't directly related to islamism, and that the US is absolved of any wrongdoing in the middle east
also i thought you were gonna ignore me?? what happened to that
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