University of Chicago cancels all Monday 11/30 classes over credible shooting threat - Polidicks

[QUOTE=St33m;49214210]So you are uncomfortable with finding opposing opinions basically.[/QUOTE] The irony is palpable. I agree with him thay SH is not the place to be starting a gun debate at every possible moment and that it does devolve into bashing America and it's citizens because you and the others who participate (like Vodka Quest) fancy starting shit when you're bored. I've read through all of the comments in this thread and it's the same thing as always where there is no middle ground achieved or real discussion bease neither side will budge because neither has any intent to from the very beginning. You waste your time and the time of those who take your stupid xenophobic bait. [editline]30th November 2015[/editline] If you held a position of power that could change something and didn't throw around generalizations and assumptions about a culture you are not a part of nor understand then it'd be different

You can't just ban guns. We banned alot of drugs and yet anybody can get them in almost every city/town. There's no point in repeating history and wasting money on such a trivial subject.

They just arrested the kid that made the threat

[QUOTE=St33m;49214210]So you are uncomfortable with finding opposing opinions basically.[/QUOTE] Have you not noticed how SH gun/gender/race discussions [u]always[/u] turns into a multi-page shitstorm?

I'd be fine with gun control if I can still own a fucking ak. Control the guns, but don't limit the selection.

[QUOTE=The Rifleman;49215070]They just arrested the kid that made the threat[/QUOTE] Nice Also this is one of the only posts actually talking about the topic

I really, really wish it was a bannable offense to start bullshit gun debates in every fucking thread concerning firearms.

I never really can empathise with the argument of "we need guns to keep the government in line!!". I've heard this from my gun buddies IRL and people in threads like these, and it always comes off as a mixture of creepy and extreme. Even if you yourself believe that the US has a real risk of turning into an oppressive nation and you believe you would and could resist such a state with your firearms, you aren't winning any antigun people over to your side. You just look insane. To the predominantly foreign anti-gun folks; You have to consider that America is a big place. A large part of our country is composed of small towns with extremely small police forces. I've lived in places where police response times were around 3-5 minutes. In some parts of the country, this response time is much larger. During the time I lived in such a place, if someone broke into our house or came to our property to do us harm, we would have been completely screwed without guns. In some parts of the country it is downright scary to live without some form of protection. That for me is one of the reasons I own guns; because I want the ability to protect myself.

[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;49214181]It's weird because most American posters here are usually so quick to comment on Muslim culture and immigrants despite having absolutely no fucking idea what they're talking about.[/QUOTE]That isn't even remotely contained to just Americans, [I]and either fucking way[/I] that doesn't change a simple fact: you do not know what you are talking about. Just because everyone else may be as ignorant as the day is long does not and never will excuse your own personal ignorance.

tbh I'm from Texas and I still don't see how "it's our culture" is an adequate defense owning guns because of shitty police response time and home protection seem like good enough reasons on their own without having to bust out the "you don't understand american culture" part of it but i'm not a gun owner or fan either way so

Gun rights are just some of those highly visible issues that are easily pounded upon by politicians in order to drive voters to the polls. Most Americans don't even know or do dick shit when the government (including the same politicians that parade around those visible issues) erode more of their other rights. Which happens all the damn time. Now I'm not saying the average American voter is stupid, but is pointedly misinformed by politicians with agendas and medias with agendas and corporations that use both to further their agendas and so on. We come out of our education systems woefully unprepared to be informed voters in the face of such campaigns, and that's a tragedy.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49214023]Have you even...talked with a American IRL? [/QUOTE] Yup. Lived with one for a year, pretty cool ass motherfucker who came over here from Arizona (quite the shithole wherever he hailed from). As much as he liked shooting guns he was willing to admit that easy accessibility of firearms is a fucking HUGE problem in your, his, country that is vastly enabling violent crime. Some Americans actually seem to be capable of critiquing their own "culture".

[QUOTE=hexpunK;49215591] Some Americans actually seem to be capable of critiquing their own "culture".[/QUOTE] Exactly. We're not a homogeneous country at all and have about as wide a spread of opinions on issues as can be had. Thanks to our ingenious political system all those opinions are neatly divided into two camps which fail to please anyone and basically serve as stereotypes

[QUOTE=Squidman;49215613]Exactly. We're not a homogeneous country at all and have about as wide a spread of opinions on issues as can be had.[/QUOTE] Emphasis on the "". Guns are not culture. They are weapons. They are not toys. They are weapons. They can be collectors items sure. But they are weapons. They are not something you pose in the mirror with wearing your hottest new desert sand scarf and shades. They are weapons.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;49215625]Emphasis on the "". Guns are not culture. They are weapons. They are not toys. They are weapons. They can be collectors items sure. But they are weapons. They are not something you pose in the mirror with wearing your hottest new desert sand scarf and shades. They are weapons.[/QUOTE] Like it or not, guns do make up part of our material culture. I don't live in a place in the US where gun culture is that prevalent and and my beliefs reflect that but denying it exists doesn't make sense. I'll provide a definition of material culture to save time: [B]Material culture[/B] refers to the physical objects, resources, and spaces that people use to define their culture. These include homes, neighborhoods, cities, schools, churches, synagogues, temples, mosques, offices, factories and plants, tools, means of production, goods and products, stores, and so forth.

Letting weapons define you as a people seems pretty fucking stupid tbh.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;49215689]Letting weapons define you as a people seems pretty fucking stupid tbh.[/QUOTE] Weapons have been part of human material culture for as long as human civilization has existed. Flagdog says you're from Britain, at one time warships and naval might were a prevalent part of Britain's material culture. I'm not even disagreeing about the weapons part, as I said before I don't like the weapons part of modern US material culture. I've just had my coffee and arguing with strangers online about shit that doesn't even matter seems like a good idea at the moment

apparently it was a threat by BLM as "payback" The mcdonald shooting [url]https://archive.is/xIhUn[/url]

[QUOTE=Pascall;49215492]tbh I'm from Texas and I still don't see how "it's our culture" is an adequate defense[/QUOTE]Well it isn't the beginning and end of our culture, it's just an aspect of it that really is inseparable with our national identity at this point. I never said it's "our culture" anyway, I did say "an element of American culture." [editline]30th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Squidman;49215737]I'm not even disagreeing about the weapons part, as I said before I don't like the weapons part of modern US material culture.[/QUOTE]I don't know, the weapon aspect in itself isn't so bad but it's the mythology around guns that just makes me uncomfortable sometimes. People attribute almost supernatural shit to guns sometimes and it's dumb, I mean yeah it's often out of fear than out of reverence but either way it's irrational and harmful. On the other hand being armed in public has this weird effect of making you suddenly conscious of everything you're doing, it's you plus gun, so arguments and physical confrontations suddenly take on a whole new meaning. It's hilarious because it's the exact opposite of what the common assumption about being armed in public is, instead of people whipping out their guns and being hyper aggressive because they have power it's a deliberate effort to deescalate so people don't have to use their guns. I suppose that says something about who and what we are as a species, we're not [I]really[/I] that violent after all.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;49215759]Well it isn't the beginning and end of our culture, it's just an aspect of it that really is inseparable with our national identity at this point. I never said it's "our culture" anyway, I did say "an element of American culture." [editline]30th November 2015[/editline] I don't know, the weapon aspect in itself isn't so bad but it's the mythology around guns that just makes me uncomfortable sometimes. People attribute almost supernatural shit to guns sometimes and it's dumb, I mean yeah it's often out of fear than out of reverence but either way it's irrational and harmful. On the other hand being armed in public has this weird effect of making you suddenly conscious of everything you're doing, it's you plus gun, so arguments and physical confrontations suddenly take on a whole new meaning. It's hilarious because it's the exact opposite of what the common assumption about being armed in public is, instead of people whipping out their guns and being hyper aggressive because they have power it's a deliberate effort to deescalate so people don't have to use their guns. I suppose that says something about who and what we are as a species, we're not [I]really[/I] that violent after all.[/QUOTE] I guess my whole point about saying that was to emphasize that I come from a part of the US where gun culture isn't too prevalent (in the South no less), and that being from this area shapes how I feel about them. It's essentially the same sort of culturally-centric view that makes it hard for people who don't live in that sort of culture to understand gun culture. I'm just a big, dumb American with opinions that don't matter

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49213836] Besides guns are a part of American culture, you can't just ask us to remove the second amendment because of shit like this. .[/QUOTE] You should regulate them more like other countries then. Also, culture changes and by itself isn't enough to justify maintaining a status quo.

I never really can figure out where people get the "the founding fathers wanted American's to be able to stand up to tyrants!" thing. The 2nd amendment exists purely because militias were such a big part of the early US military and there were enough people that needed to hunt their own food that owning a weapon was genuinely an important thing. Governments don't exactly want people rebelling against them, and nobody had any issue curbstomping Shay's Rebellion or the Whiskey Rebellion.

I find bringing up gun control and gun rights hides the true reasons, and errodes the chance of the problem being resolved. The fact is, its not the presence of guns that are causing the problem. It isn't the violent films, music or games that is the true root cause of the problem. Theses are things that are easy to see and point a finger at. The fact is, there is underlying issues that cause these type of atrocities to happen. Then we have a media that basically idolizes these people. Digging up their lives of suspect and victim alike. Make a big ol deal about it, because it pushes agendas, because it makes them a shit ton of cash. But the problem isn't even in the media, who over inflates the event by drawing out 1 event through series of months or however long it can be milked. What about what causes people to actually do this. Mental illness, wrong-place and time, or people turning to a life of crime to put food on their tables, or crack into their lungs. These are problems we should address. Mental illness, and the constant shooing away it gets, because its all in the head, so it doesn't exist.

the problem is we already have stockpiles of guns fucking everywhere here. Making them more restrictive now wouldn't really do anything. Yeah sure you can make them harder to buy- but chances are your uncle Jerry probably already has 6 guns in his closet already.

Noone disagrees that the country needs more gun control. But taking the guns that already exist (save for example those that are evident that they are crazy) is goofy

it's too late to start imposing restrictions (it could help a bit, but it would be marginal at best) and you probably can't take away people's assault rifles without resulting in a violent conflict the best we can do is impose laws on how media covers mass-killing tragedies as guided by professionals in the subject, and start targeting small arms issues

[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;49214181] But that's fine, I'll leave you and people like Gunfox to live out their paranoid delusions of overthrowing their george Orwellian government one day with guns and "spilling a great deal of blood to resolve the issue" - because that's the type of person I'd want to own guns.[/QUOTE] Actually it would be my greatest fear, but you clearly have decided to lump all Americans into the same little box because they don't mesh with your world view. There is currently no statistical correlation between public support for a bill and the possibility that will pass our federal legislative branches. We are in serious trouble and our democratic avenues to solving the issue are currently controlled by money. We need to manage a serious 180 to get off the path we are on, but I don't know that we can do that. I'd like to be more optimistic, but that simply isn't a realistic viewpoint at this time.

The level of shit talking and negativity, particularly toward the US, in this thread is disappointing, it sucks that the forum has to be clogged with such worthless posts. If you want the world to be a better place then start by keeping your shitty insults to yourself and contribute something constructive to society instead of wasting yours and other people's time. You'll be a slightly better human being This is Facepunch though, if you want maturity look elsewhere

[QUOTE=Anderan;49215924]I never really can figure out where people get the "the founding fathers wanted American's to be able to stand up to tyrants!" thing. The 2nd amendment exists purely because militias were such a big part of the early US military and there were enough people that needed to hunt their own food that owning a weapon was genuinely an important thing. Governments don't exactly want people rebelling against them, and nobody had any issue curbstomping Shay's Rebellion or the Whiskey Rebellion.[/QUOTE] I think it's just sort of this legendary idea that came out of the fact that, like you said, militias played such an important role in our early history; combine that with the popular Revolutionary War-era rhetoric about "British tyranny" and a plethora of mythology surrounding all that which people continue to believe, and you get a bunch of them concluding unreasonably that the government enacted it as a checks-and-balances measure against itself. What I've always found hilarious about militias, in complete contrast to the picture that modern militias and gun nuts try to paint, is just how disliked they were by the founding fathers. Washington and Hamilton noted that... [quote=George Washington][i]"To place any dependence on Militia, is, assuredly resting upon a broken staff. Men just dragged from the tender scenes of domestick life; unaccustomed to the din of Arms; totally unacquainted with every kind of military skill, which being followed by a want of confidence in themselves, when opposed to Troops regularly train'd, disciplined, and appointed, superior in knowledge and superior in Arms, makes them timid, and ready to fly from their own shadows."[/i][/quote] [quote=Alexander Hamilton][i]"Here I expect we shall be told that the militia of the country is its natural bulwark, and would beat all times equal to the national defense. This doctrine, in substance had like to have lost us our independence. It cost millions to the United States that might have been saved. The facts which from our own experience forbid any reliance of this kind are too recent to permit us to be the dupes of such a suggestion. The steady operations of war against a regular and disciplined army can only be successfully conducted by a force of the same kind. Considerations of economy, not less than of stability and vigor, confirm this position. The American militia, in the course of the late war, have, by their valor on numerous occasions, erected eternal monuments to their fame; but the bravest of them feel and know that the liberty of their country could not have been established by their efforts alone, however great and valuable they were. War, like most other things, is a science to be acquire and perfected by diligence, by perseverance, by time, and by practice."[/i][/quote] They were mostly useless then against disciplined and professional armies (and only amounted to a shit when they received proper instruction and drilling at the hands of European experts like von Steuben, Lafayette, and Kosciuszko), they have become completely useless today in modern first-world nations that treat warfare for what it is: a scientific, precision-oriented, and mechanical undertaking that's expensive in terms of effort/commitment required and resources. There's still a bunch of Americans that want to dress up and play soldier, like to get gung-ho with firearms to feel powerful and like they're worth a damn, try to be as inflammatory as they can be with their remarks about government and religion (etc.) who may or may not honestly think otherwise though. They're wrong of course, but whatever. Odds are, they're not going to try anything anyway. And if they do, they'll just get-- as you put it-- curbstomped. Fucking obliterated. It's funny to me that there's all this talk here in just this thread about how the Second Amendment exists to keep the government in check, and yet at the same time, there's talk of how corrupt and terrible our government is; why aren't any of you doing anything about it then? If that's what the amendment is for, why aren't you using it like you're supposed to be doing lol?

I only remember one instance of fresh militias actually being used in a way that didn't result in them fleeing in terror and it was one battle where they were allowed to march forward, fire one volley, and then retreat to make the British think they routed the Americans which resulted them walking face first into the actual Continental army while chasing the "retreating" militias. Cannot for the life of me remember which battle it was though.