Transgender teen leaves note on tumblr blaming Christian parents for suicide - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Kyle902;46827104]Geel9 I dont know what experience you have with suicidal depression but in most cases suicidal people dont commit suicide as some version of angsty revenge. They commit suicide because they see themselves as a burden on society/those around them, or they do it because whatever they're going through quite simply is far too much for them and they see no point to continuing their pain. You also seem to think that your experiences = everyones experiences or at least the great majority.[/QUOTE] did you miss the part where i said that that was a complete hypothetical that i didn't think was true? further, given i actually have super conservative Christian parents I think my situation is somewhat similar when it comes to figuring out why these parents make the decisions that they do.

Also your entire argument of "we dont know if the parents are abusive or not" works both way. Sure she could have.. biased views in her letter, but there's an equal chance that they arent.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;46827115]Also your entire argument of "we dont know if the parents are abusive or not" works both way. Sure she could have.. biased views in her letter, but there's an equal chance that they arent.[/QUOTE] yeah okay that's the point? so perhaps what you should take from that is that further evidence is necessary before you suddenly decide to take the mentally unstable 16 year old at their absolute word?

[QUOTE=geel9;46827110]did you miss the part where i said that that was a complete hypothetical that i didn't think was true? further, given i actually have super conservative Christian parents I think my situation is somewhat similar when it comes to figuring out why these parents make the decisions that they do.[/QUOTE] The difference being, going off assumption here, is that the decisions your parents make do not affect you on NEARLY the same scale as the decisions of the parents of a transgendered individual. A common mistake people make is the belief that you can ever compare what you've experienced with the experiences of others. [editline]30th December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=geel9;46827119]yeah okay that's the point? so perhaps what you should take from that is that further evidence is necessary before you suddenly decide to take the mentally unstable 16 year old at their absolute word?[/QUOTE] On the same note you shouldn't side with the parents as you seemingly are. [editline]30th December 2014[/editline] Also you act as if mentally unstable suddenly makes someone uncredible. This is a stupid thing to do.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;46827126]The difference being, going off assumption here, is that the decisions your parents make do not affect you on NEARLY the same scale as the decisions of the parents of a transgendered individual. A common mistake people make is the belief that you can ever compare what you've experienced with the experiences of others. [editline]30th December 2014[/editline] On the same note you shouldn't side with the parents as you seemingly are. [editline]30th December 2014[/editline] Also you act as if mentally unstable suddenly makes someone uncredible. This is a stupid thing to do.[/QUOTE] i'm not siding with the parents in the sense that "they didn't do it." My entire stance on whether they actually performed the act has been "you should probably wait for actual evidence instead of a letter written by someone who can't back it up in any way now." If they did it they should go to prison because they're not safe for society. That doesn't mean that I feel they are malevolent in their actions.

[QUOTE=geel9;46827142]i'm not siding with the parents in the sense that "they didn't do it." My entire stance on whether they actually performed the act has been "you should probably wait for actual evidence instead of a letter written by someone who can't back it up in any way now." If they did it they should go to prison because they're not safe for society. That doesn't mean that I feel they are malevolent in their actions.[/QUOTE] Well then why the fuck are you going on a tirade?

[QUOTE=Kyle902;46827149]Well then why the fuck are you going on a tirade?[/QUOTE] Because everyone assumes that the parents absolutely, without a doubt, intentionally let their child suffer from gender dysphoria, knowing what she was suffering from and the information surrounding it. That's just not necessarily true at all.

-snip-

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;46826987]Hey paramud I see you're doing a good job of saying something of value, or even attempting to read my posts with even a modicum of comprehension. Wait, no, because I've never said that this girls word is the facts of the situation but a far more accurate picture than someone like you would like it to be. But, honestly, what you think of me? No relevance, not after the shit I've seen you say.[/QUOTE] Actually, I honestly quite like you. I think you're a good poster. I just think that it's stupid to blindly take the word of someone who not only committed suicide, but did it in such a way that forced someone else to actually do it for them. I fully admit to knowing nothing about this kid's life or their parents' alleged negligence. I'm not going to let my support of any cause change that just because it fits my world view better. All I know is that they left a suicide note claiming many things, and then walked into traffic. To claim anything else as fact or that either side has more evidence than the other is a presumption or a lie.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;46827157]You could've made that point in literally a sentence.[/QUOTE] I did.

[QUOTE=geel9;46827119]yeah okay that's the point? so perhaps what you should take from that is that further evidence is necessary before you suddenly decide to take the mentally unstable 16 year old at their absolute word?[/QUOTE] "Mentally unstable?" MENTALLY UNSTABLE? Have you even LOOKED at your own posts???

[QUOTE=ChronoBlade;46827164]"Mentally unstable?" MENTALLY UNSTABLE? Have you even LOOKED at your own posts???[/QUOTE] How is being suicidal "stable"?

[QUOTE=geel9;46827154]Because everyone assumes that the parents absolutely, without a doubt, intentionally let their child suffer from gender dysphoria, knowing what she was suffering from and the information surrounding it. That's just not necessarily true at all.[/QUOTE] You just said you werent taking a stance. Then you promptly take a stance.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;46827171]You just said you werent taking a stance. Then you promptly take a stance.[/QUOTE] If you consider a stance completely in the middle a "stance".

[QUOTE=geel9;46827169]How is being suicidal "stable"?[/QUOTE] Being suicidal is unstable. Whether someone being suicidal or not somehow reduces their credibility is up to debate. Using vague terminology with obvious negative connotations to invalidate someone is a rather petty thing to do. [editline]30th December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=geel9;46827176]If you consider a stance completely in the middle a "stance".[/QUOTE] You are trying to prove a point, ergo you have a stance. Is this hard logic to grasp?

[QUOTE=Kyle902;46827180]Being suicidal is unstable. Whether someone being suicidal or not somehow reduces their credibility is up to debate. Using vague terminology with obvious negative connotations to invalidate someone is a rather petty thing to do.[/QUOTE] they killed themselves, and not only that, they did it in a way that had no regard for the sanity of another human being (the driver of the truck in question) that already sets a precedence of not being stable [editline]31st December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Kyle902;46827180]Being suicidal is unstable. Whether someone being suicidal or not somehow reduces their credibility is up to debate. Using vague terminology with obvious negative connotations to invalidate someone is a rather petty thing to do. [editline]30th December 2014[/editline] You are trying to prove a point, ergo you have a stance. Is this hard logic to grasp?[/QUOTE] When I said I wasn't taking a stance I meant I wasn't taking a position on whether or not the parents did it. My point is that you [b]can't do that[/b] without further evidence. All you're doing now is arguing petty semantics.

[QUOTE=geel9;46827110]did you miss the part where i said that that was a complete hypothetical that i didn't think was true? further, given i actually have super conservative Christian parents I think my situation is somewhat similar when it comes to figuring out why these parents make the decisions that they do.[/QUOTE] do you have to patronize them due to the fact that the only relatively similar point that is clear is that their & your parents are ultra conservative? Why should you be comparing yourself to someone who's had to take their own life to relieve their pain and suffering, in order to make a point? Just because their life sounds remotely similar to yours, [B]doesn't mean you automatically get to assume the moral high ground and have the right to pass judgement.[/B]

[QUOTE=shutter_eye5;46827190]do you have to patronize them due to the fact that the only relatively similar point that is clear is that their & your parents are ultra conservative? Why should you be comparing yourself to someone who's had to take their own life to relieve their pain and suffering, in order to make a point? Just because their life sounds remotely similar to yours, [B]doesn't mean you automatically get to assume the moral high ground and have the right to pass judgement.[/B][/QUOTE] Clearly you missed the point behind bringing up my parents. My parents were only used as a way to explain that I have an understanding of the rationale behind conservative christian parents, not that my life is in any way similar to hers; my parents' are similar to her parents'.

[QUOTE=geel9;46827185]they killed themselves, and not only that, they did it in a way that had no regard for the sanity of another human being (the driver of the truck in question) that already sets a precedence of not being stable[/quote] Well its a good thing I wasn't questioning their instability. i was questioning whether or not the specific microcosm of instability (Suicidal behavior) somehow removed their credibility. [editline]31st December 2014[/editline] [quote] When I said I wasn't taking a stance I meant I wasn't taking a position on whether or not the parents did it. My point is that you [b]can't do that[/b] without further evidence. All you're doing now is arguing petty semantics.[/QUOTE] Well then why are you going on a 2-3 page long debate about your "not stance" stance?

I'm not claiming to have suffered some trauma due to my Christian parents; I've only explained things my parents have done and how their religion can affect their decision-making process in a similar way to how this girl's parents made their decisions.

[QUOTE=geel9;46827196]Clearly you missed the point behind bringing up my parents. My parents were only used as a way to explain that I have an understanding of the rationale behind conservative christian parents, not that my life is in any way similar to hers; my parents' are similar to her parents'.[/QUOTE] Weren't you just done explaining that we dont have enough information to draw any sort of conclusion?

[QUOTE=Kyle902;46827199]Well its a good thing I wasn't questioning their instability. i was questioning whether or not the specific microcosm of instability (Suicidal behavior) somehow removed their credibility. [editline]31st December 2014[/editline] Well then why are you going on a 2-3 page long debate about your "not stance" stance?[/QUOTE] When someone kills themselves at the expense of another person I find that to be a pretty good indicator of their mental status of not giving a fuck about others. Lying and deceiving aren't exactly hard when you don't care. Besides, you do have to remember that I actually personally stated that I do not believe that she is lying or deceiving people through her suicide note -- I think it's highly possible she has inaccuracies blinded by her depression and we need *actual evidence* before we can make any claim to know what really went on. Because I do not find it fair that others are taking a position with completely insufficient evidence. [editline]31st December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Kyle902;46827203]Weren't you just done explaining that we dont have enough information to draw any sort of conclusion?[/QUOTE] Sure but I can still argue hypotheticals. [editline]31st December 2014[/editline] I came into the thread and noticed multiple chains of conversations occurring. I took issue with someone saying that her parents were assholes/malevolent in their alleged actions -- so I responded to that theory. I also took issue with the idea that we can actually know what really happened -- so I responded separately. These two conversations are kind of coalescing to appear as if I was supporting one argument with the other.

Are there any other controversial threads like this? Because this might be the most controversial thread I have ever seen.

[QUOTE=ChronoBlade;46827218]Are there any other controversial threads like this? Because this might be the most controversial thread I have ever seen.[/QUOTE] They happen whenever the planets align.

[QUOTE=Paramud;46827227]They happen whenever the planets align.[/QUOTE] More like they happen when trans topics come online, baits the biggots out of hiding to be culled.

[QUOTE=geel9;46827026]yes it does. all that matters is your intent. if you know that something will physically or emotionally harm someone and you do it anyways, that is ethically wrong. if you do something that you hope or believe will help someone and it has the reverse effect, that is a mistake.[/QUOTE] she had at least two years to realize that it was a mistake though?

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;46827236]she had at least two years to realize that it was a mistake though?[/QUOTE] or that she wasn't trying hard enough [editline]31st December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=codemaster85;46827235]More like they happen when trans topics come online, baits the biggots out of hiding to be culled.[/QUOTE] not blindly taking someone at their (written) word just because they're trans does not a bigot make.

[QUOTE=geel9;46827247]or that she wasn't trying hard enough [editline]31st December 2014[/editline] not blindly taking someone at their (written) word just because they're trans does not a bigot make.[/QUOTE] Then why are you quite obviously taking the side of the parent. You may not be going out and saying it, but its obvious from the tone of your posts that you at some level are defending the actions of the parents.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;46827252]Then why are you quite obviously taking the side of the parent. You may not be going out and saying it, but its obvious from the tone of your posts that you at some level are defending the actions of the parents.[/QUOTE] Perhaps it's your thirst for blood that makes anyone saying "hey maybe the parents DIDN'T do it" seem like a ridiculous and extreme proposal? If the parents are being witch-hunted for something that we cannot prove actually happened then of course I'm going to be a bit defensive. For all intents and purposes, they are innocent until proven guilty.

[QUOTE=geel9;46827247]or that she wasn't trying hard enough[/QUOTE] uhm, you literally said that if they realize it's causing physical or emotional pain, it's ethically wrong. regardless of whether or not they thought they weren't trying hard enough, by your own definition, they should still be blamed