Transgender teen leaves note on tumblr blaming Christian parents for suicide
929 replies, posted
Saw this on Huffington Post: [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deserae-l-stage/how-do-we-find-justice-fo_b_6398204.html[/url]
I wouldn't call suicide selfish, but I also wouldn't support the choice.
It's like smoking. Even if you're not suffering from the second hand, you still don't like seeing your friends or people care about hurting themselves. It's their choice but you definitely don't support that shit
[QUOTE=Glitchman;46828497]I wouldn't call suicide selfish, but I also wouldn't support the choice.
It's like smoking. Even if you're not suffering from the second hand, you still don't like seeing your friends or people care about hurting themselves. It's their choice but you definitely don't support that shit[/QUOTE]
Suicide is selfish dude. It's "[I]I[/I] can't handle [I]my[/I] problems so [I]I'm[/I] going to kill [I]myself.[/I]"
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not how to counter-argue" - SteveUK))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;46828508]Suicide is selfish dude. It's "[I]I[/I] can't handle [I]my[/I] problems so [I]I'm[/I] going to kill [I]myself.[/I][/QUOTE]
You're so ignorant I facepalmed through my skull.
Suicidal people don't see their act as selfish, rathar as a selfless act. They think that death is not only the solution to their issues but also that it would make people happier.
While this may not be Leelah's case, this is what's going on in suicidal people. It's what I was thinking when I was depressed.
[QUOTE=SebiWarrior;46828521]You're so ignorant I facepalmed through my skull.
Suicidal people don't see their act as selfish, rathar as a selfless act. They think that death is not only the solution to their issues but also that it would make people happier.
While this may not be Leelah's case, this is what's going on in suicidal people. It's what I was thinking when I was depressed.[/QUOTE]
I am not saying they see it as selfish since they see it as their only way out, but it's selfish to everyone else around them.
I really hope that you don't tell suicidal people that because you would be a terrible person.
Yes it hurts people around and yes people care about you, so you ARE making them upset by killing yourself. But selfish? I don't really think that's a good word to describe it since really you are solving a problem in your own way, as hurtful as it is to others, it's something you (in most cases, not all) could not have prevented. Some of the times, the people who SHOULD care about you, like these parents, are the ones who actually cut off support systems and caused the issue in the first place. If anything, the friends should be really angry at the parents, since they were the supposed to be the support system for their growing child. So no, not selfish.
There COULD be selfish suicides, I guess. It really depends on the case and the person but usually if your driven to do something like that there probably is much more going on, so much more that your immediate mental of physical pain overrides your need to stay alive and be there with your friends and family.
[editline]31st December 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;46828556]I really hope that you don't tell suicidal people that because you would be a terrible person.[/QUOTE]
I would never tell a suicidal person they are selfish, but I would do everything I could to make sure they don't go through with it.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;46828529]I am not saying they see it as selfish since they see it as their only way out, but it's selfish to everyone else around them.[/QUOTE]
But it's selfish of everybody around them to expect them to continue living a tortured life just for their sake. Loss is largely a temporary thing, you learn to cope with it. Chronic depression, untreated gender dysphoria, etc. are quite a bit more permanent and much harder to just "cope" with as it's part of your very being.
Suicide isn't a good option to pick unless your quality of life is so low that it is the only option, but calling people who kill themselves out of pure hatred of their being "selfish", well, that's not cool.
I used to think it was selfish too, then I thought about it for longer than 5 seconds.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;46828580]But it's selfish of everybody around them to expect them to continue living a tortured life just for their sake. Loss is largely a temporary thing, you learn to cope with it. Chronic depression, untreated gender dysphoria, etc. are quite a bit more permanent and much harder to just "cope" with as it's part of your very being.
Suicide isn't a good option to pick unless your quality of life is so low that it is the only option, but calling people who kill themselves out of pure hatred of their being "selfish", well, that's not cool.
I used to think it was selfish too, then I thought about it for longer than 5 seconds.[/QUOTE]
Depression can be cured. My wife was a daily cutter, massively depressed and suicidal from about 9 years old until 19 or so shortly before we met, now she's not at all.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;46828584]Depression can be cured. My wife was a daily cutter, massively depressed and suicidal from about 9 years old until 19 or so shortly before we met, now she's not at all.[/QUOTE]
Uhh... yeah right.
Maybe she stopped cutting but I downright can guarantee you she's still depressed. Depression can't be cured just like that. Also there's a misconception that only depressed cut themselves. Yes, some do, but its more like a bad habit that even happy people sometimes do.
Also you can be depressed and not be suicidal.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;46828584]Depression can be cured. My wife was a daily cutter, massively depressed and suicidal from about 9 years old until 19 or so shortly before we met, now she's not at all.[/QUOTE]
Depression can be handled. Chemical imbalances are not something you can usually just "cure", it always has a possibility of coming back. We can prescribe medicines to handle the chemicals, we can provide counselling to help the person, but we can't stop the body from producing the imbalance permanently (from my understanding).
Loads of people who feel "cured" of their depression relapse. Usually without any sign anything was wrong. Good to know your wife is feeling better now, and I hope it lasts, but that isn't always the case.
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;46828600]Uhh... yeah right.
Maybe she stopped cutting but I downright can guarantee you she's still depressed. Depression can't be cured just like that. Also there's a misconception that only depressed cut themselves. Yes, some do, but its more like a bad habit that even happy people sometimes do.
Also you can be depressed and not be suicidal.[/QUOTE]
Whelp she was both. And I know her, and she isn't like that anymore 7 or 8 years later. It isn't an incurable disease like alcoholism or something.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;46828613]Whelp she was both. And I know her, and she isn't like that anymore 7 or 8 years later. It isn't an incurable disease like alcoholism or something.[/QUOTE]
But you claim that good events can just "cure" depression. It doesn't.
Depression is a disease. It's a chemical imbalance in the brain. And some people have clinically diagnosed depression that lasts all their lives.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;46828613]Whelp she was both. And I know her, and she isn't like that anymore 7 or 8 years later. It isn't an incurable disease like alcoholism or something.[/QUOTE]
how do you exactly cure depression so suddenly like that? because I am looking for a cure and apparantly you have that. is it pill based??
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;46828584]Depression can be cured. My wife was a daily cutter, massively depressed and suicidal from about 9 years old until 19 or so shortly before we met, now she's not at all.[/QUOTE]
If you'd read Leelah's note, you'd see she never even got any appropriate help and thus never had a chance to be "cured", just got tossed at christian therapists who did nothing but spew antagonistic bullshit on her which made her get worse and worse. Your family is supposed to care about you, not constantly bully you over something they refuse to understand.
Everyone's life is different. Just because some people get "cured" doesn't mean everyone does, because not everyone goes through the same things. I'm sure if Leelah was able to get actual help and support instead of being around people constantly telling her she's wrong about everything, she could've lived a happy life.
[QUOTE=Limed00d;46828623]how do you exactly cure depression so suddenly like that? because I am looking for a cure and apparantly you have that. is it pill based??[/QUOTE]
no its on a subscription model.
Im a bit late to the party but man does this news and its thread make me sick.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;46828508]Suicide is selfish dude. It's "[I]I[/I] can't handle [I]my[/I] problems so [I]I'm[/I] going to kill [I]myself.[/I]"[/QUOTE]
I'm not a supporter of suicide but this is just fucking dumb.
Yes it's a self centred act but so fucking what, so is expecting someone to live just because it might make you sad.
If you want to help suicidal people try helping them actually deal with their problems and supporting them instead of trying retarded guilt trips.
Why are people talking about depression as if it's black and white and doesn't come different in types, which can all be completely unique between people based on countless aspects.
Furthermore, using the term disease when it's a mental state with tons of varieties is weird. It's a just a dysfunctional mental state.
The same goes for alcoholism, and calling either/or a disease, furthermore saying it's been "cured" if you get rid of it is also incredibly silly terms.
Depression is fluid, just like alcoholism. And depending on your own case, you can or cannot get rid of both. Furthermore, they often happen to be related. Which means that if a person managed to be set free from their depression (get rid of it), it could likely result in removing their alcoholic tendencies, which would allow them to drink for different reasons and in different ways.
Also, way too many people associate depression with being sad. Likely because if you've only been sad in your life (regardless of the scale), that's what a lot of people will think is what being depressed feels like.
Which is why a lot of people tend to call it selfish or weak, when people commit suicide, since the only feelings they can compare to are unrelated, even though they might think they are.
And yes, some people do end up living with depression for most of their lives, but that doesn't mean that they were afflicted with it permanently, just that they were not given the right circumstances to get rid of it.
But ofc, then there are people who has such a chemical imbalance to the degree that it will haunt them for the rest of their lives, but that is a really small percentage which a lot of people would like to believe is bigger than it actually is.
And most people who are depressed do also like to believe that this is their case.
Which is fairly easy to convince yourself in a state of depression due to it's nature.
Even when mourning, or in other kinds of sadness, it's natural for our mind to fool ourselves that it will last forever.
Not even sure what I'm trying to say by making this post, but please stop being so black and white about this subject. It's really disregarding from both sides.
Only this bit
[quote]At the end of the school year, my parents finally came around and gave me my phone and let me back on social media. I was excited, I finally had my friends back. They were extremely excited to see me and talk to me, but only at first. Eventually they realized they didn’t actually give a shit about me, and I felt even lonelier than I did before. The only friends I thought I had only liked me because they saw me five times a week.[/quote]
Made me a bit upset. Of course they would fade away from you because after your disappearance you had zero impact on their lives and they moved on. You cannot blame them.
All in all, a tragic story. Even though I hold belief that it was more or less a phase in his life (contrary to popular opinion that people are born that way) and believe that he would've lived through, it was his choice, and his ultimate choice to go with.
Isn't it fucked up that teenagers get security, wealth and quasi-love in modern economically developed countries, yet at the cost of happiness?
[editline]31st December 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;46828508]Suicide is selfish dude. It's "[I]I[/I] can't handle [I]my[/I] problems so [I]I'm[/I] going to kill [I]myself.[/I]"[/QUOTE]
Someone had an interesting point somewhere in this thread.
Isn't it selfish from everyone else close to the suicidal person not to commit suicide even though he leads a shitty life he wants to get over with?
The problem is, suicidal people do not care because they want to die. Others don't, however.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;46828508]Suicide is selfish dude. It's "[I]I[/I] can't handle [I]my[/I] problems so [I]I'm[/I] going to kill [I]myself.[/I]"[/QUOTE]
man, you're really trying hard to be hated
you clearly don't know anything about depression, so why the fuck are you here trying to be the authority on how "selfish" suicide is. you sound like a total asshole who doesn't know what he's talking about.
Leave this to people who have actually suffered actual depression. and if you have gone through it, that makes you look even WORSE.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;46828584]Depression can be cured. My wife was a daily cutter, massively depressed and suicidal from about 9 years old until 19 or so shortly before we met, now she's not at all.[/QUOTE]
it's a sign that you're wrong when you're using personal anecdotes to try and prove your point.
of course it can be cured
except it's different from person to person. Some people are depressed and think they're worthless and that no one cares about them, and that's why they're driven to suicide. It's not selfish because they think they're doing the world a favor.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;46828613]Whelp she was both. And I know her, and she isn't like that anymore 7 or 8 years later. It isn't an incurable disease like alcoholism or something.[/QUOTE]
Depression is not something you get over with and live forever happy ever after. Once you get into the hole, you never get out. You can keep parts of your body out of the hole, but there [B]are[/B] times you split and fall back into the hole. And the second fall hurts more than the first.
She isn't cured. She's dealing with it pretty damn well. I mean, look at me, my life is pretty fucking awesome right now: I got good grades, a healthy social life, a girlfriend, no money problems and a loving family. By all means, I should be "cured".
And yet, from time to time, my head gets hit by thoughts of how pathetic and useless I am, and how little I contribute to the world. And I deal with it by turning all these nasty thoughts into self-deprecating jokes. The point is, my depression hasn't gone away, and it takes me effort to pull myself out of the hole everytime I slip back.
Maybe you don't notice what your wife does to pull herself back of the hole, but I guarantee you: she's gonna have to deal with it until her death. Depression isn't like a teen throwing a tantrum because of her boyfriend: it warps your perception of the world, and makes you take harsher measures to deal with this "world"
[QUOTE=SebiWarrior;46828521]You're so ignorant I facepalmed through my skull.
[B]Suicidal people don't see their act as selfish, rathar as a selfless act. They think that death is not only the solution to their issues but also that it would make people happier.[/B]
While this may not be Leelah's case, this is what's going on in suicidal people. It's what I was thinking when I was depressed.[/QUOTE]
And they're [B]wrong[/B] when they think such things.
Before you ask, yes, I've felt suicidal before. When I was around 10-12. Then I got over those thoughts, with barely any fucking outside help apart from knowing that I'm loved, barely ever talking about it with anyone until years later, though the issues that caused them left their mark on my personality.
I had the exact same fucking thoughts, too! That the world would be totally better if I didn't exist. That I'm such a shit. That I'm a burden on everyone and should remove myself.
[B]But it's all a wrong and unhealthy train of thought.[/B]
What's wrong with stating this simple fact? Such thoughts are straight-up harmful, and the people who think them have serious issues that need treatment and love.
However, loving and caring for the person does not and should not equal nodding along to their unhealthy thoughts. Acceptance does not equal a lack of criticism, and criticising such thoughts for the unhealthy and plain factually wrong way of thinking they are is an appeal to the logical side of the person in question, their better judgement, and can be useful in helping them leave such thoughts behind, I believe.
If appealing to the logical conclusion that the act of suicide is foolish and harmful to everyone that loves the victim (Because the act itself is, whatever a suicidal person's unhealthy thoughts suggest otherwise) could help fucking tween me get a fucking grip on why life is worth living, surely it can help someone else.
[QUOTE=TheDrunkenOne;46823635]I hope her mother realizes how much of a religious nut she is, after being so disrespectful to her daughter even after her death.[/QUOTE]
The problem is, she didn't and continue to refer to her child as 'he'.
[QUOTE=Sableye;46829652]not because you are selfish but because you have nothing left but yourself[/QUOTE]
That is literally what selfishness is.
[QUOTE=Paramud;46829758]That is literally what selfishness is.[/QUOTE]
Her family literally rejected her, she obviously felt like she had no one left and nothing left to live for, particularly coupled with being transgendered which is probably difficult enough even with a supporting family.
I don't see why people are having such trouble empathising with her
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;46829816]Her family literally rejected her, she obviously felt like she had no one left and nothing left to live for, particularly coupled with being transgendered which is probably difficult enough even with a supporting family.
I don't see why people are having such trouble empathising with her[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying they were being greedy by killing themselves. I'm not saying that living in pain would've been better than dying. I'm not saying they owed it to anyone to try and endure it. But they acted in their own self interest without concern of others, and took their life at the expense of an innocent person.
That is literally selfish.
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;46829008]Only this bit
Made me a bit upset. Of course they would fade away from you because after your disappearance you had zero impact on their lives and they moved on. You cannot blame them.
All in all, a tragic story. Even though I hold belief that it was more or less a phase in his life (contrary to popular opinion that people are born that way) and believe that he would've lived through, it was his choice, and his ultimate choice to go with.
Isn't it fucked up that teenagers get security, wealth and quasi-love in modern economically developed countries, yet at the cost of happiness?
[editline]31st December 2014[/editline]
Someone had an interesting point somewhere in this thread.
Isn't it selfish from everyone else close to the suicidal person not to commit suicide even though he leads a shitty life he wants to get over with?
The problem is, suicidal people do not care because they want to die. Others don't, however.[/QUOTE]
Way to be a disrespectful ass calling her a man
"It's just a phase" is a retarded phrase used by parents/people who don't actually give a shit but want to look like they do
It makes the person feel worse because they're not taken seriously, they're brushed off as just a silly kid. Only the person who says it can speak for their mental state. teenage hormones wouldn't have made her just randomly think she's a woman for some reason.
[QUOTE=Paramud;46829834]I'm not saying they were being greedy by killing themselves. I'm not saying that living in pain would've been better than dying. I'm not saying they owed it to anyone to try and endure it. But they acted in their own self interest without concern of others, and took their life at the expense of an innocent person.
That is literally selfish.[/QUOTE]
So is expecting someone to live just so you don't feel bad.
Whether it is or isn't "selfish" is irrelevant and just seems kind of like victim blaming to me
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