Transgender teen leaves note on tumblr blaming Christian parents for suicide - Polidicks

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;46829849]So is expecting someone to live just so you don't feel bad. Whether it is or isn't "selfish" is irrelevant and just seems kind of like victim blaming to me[/QUOTE] Yes, that is also selfish. That doesn't change whether or not suicide is or isn't selfish.

[QUOTE=Paramud;46829942]Yes, that is also selfish. That doesn't change whether or not suicide is or isn't selfish.[/QUOTE] Should we weigh it on what's more selfish then? Who's in more pain, someone who mentally can't deal with anguish and feels it inherently, or someone who can deal with it and doesn't unless it's brought on from turmoil or mourning? People can get over the anguish brought by suicide of a relative in due time, but forcing someone else into a lifetime of pain so that you don't have to feel bad is way more selfish IMO. It's cruel to force someone who already feels horrible to have their only option stripped away on the grounds that it would hurt those around them. I'm not saying if you feel bad you should just off yourself but in situations like the one in the article/op I agree with carcarcargo it sounds like victim blaming.

[QUOTE=Smallheart;46830109]Should we weigh it on what's more selfish then?[/QUOTE] Let me stop you right there and say no, we shouldn't. Whether something is more or less selfish compared to something else doesn't change whether or not it is selfish by itself. Suicide doesn't need to be justified with people making it into some heroic act. The vast majority of the time, it's not selfless. It's done by the suicidal party, for the suicidal party, and that's fine. It's their life, it's their choice if they want to end it. If someone is in a terrible position, and they see no other possible option, I think they should be able to pursue that if done in a way that harms no one else physically. But don't lie and make it about someone else. It's about the person who does it, and them alone.

[QUOTE=Paramud;46830191]Let me stop you right there and say no, we shouldn't. Whether something is more or less selfish compared to something else doesn't change whether or not it is selfish by itself. [B]Suicide doesn't need to be justified with people making it into some heroic act.[/B] [/QUOTE] Okay, again, not trying to justify it or make it seem heroic: [QUOTE=Smallheart;46830109][B]I'm not saying if you feel bad you should just off yourself [/B]but in situations like the one in the article/op I agree with carcarcargo it sounds like victim blaming.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Paramud;46830191]The vast majority of the time, it's not selfless. It's done by the suicidal party, for the suicidal party, and that's fine. It's their life, it's their choice if they want to end it. If someone is in a terrible position, and they see no other possible option, I think they should be able to pursue that if done in a way that harms no one else physically. But don't lie and make it about someone else. It's about the person who does it, and them alone.[/QUOTE] And it's not fair to generalize every suicide case as purely selfish and nothing else. Was a large portion of her suicide due to her internal anguish? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean that meaning from her situation in tandem with her suicide can't be taken, and wasn't intended. I agree that a large part of society has romanticized the idea of depression and suicide, but that doesn't make stepping in front of a bus because of the medieval sentiments society has about transgenderism any less serious of an issue, nor does it take away from the legitimacy of the message she was trying to send. People's problems are still real. They're still victims, and these problems still persist.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;46828508]Suicide is selfish dude. It's "[I]I[/I] can't handle [I]my[/I] problems so [I]I'm[/I] going to kill [I]myself.[/I]"[/QUOTE] "waa suicide is [I]selfish[/I] why can't you stay alive in [I]misery[/I] and [I]suffering[/I] and [I]agony[/I] only to make [I]me[/I] feel comfortable you [I]selfish bastard[/I]" shut the fuck up.

[QUOTE=Ripmax;46828333]Oh wow.... some more information, a post she made an /r/asktransgender a couple of months ago. It goes into more detail about what her parents did to her. [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/2km6yt/is_this_considered_abuse/[/url][/QUOTE] Those parents literally have blood on their hands and should be charged, christ

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;46828508]Suicide is selfish dude. It's "[I]I[/I] can't handle [I]my[/I] problems so [I]I'm[/I] going to kill [I]myself.[/I]"[/QUOTE] Get this, I'm sixteen and I know that it's not selfish. How? I got educated about this a while ago. You're more than [B]double[/B] my age, and you still probably think it's selfish. Why is it taking this long to get the message through your thick skull?

y'know just because someone is being a huge dick doesn't mean you need to make super ironic/mocking posts about them a thread about a grave injustice spirals downwards into an ocean of bigotry, armchair psychology, and posts mocking the other alongside "but suicide is selfish" and "being transgender is a mental illness", neither of which this is about, at all the only things really on topic are that the parents are assholes and that leelah got royally boned by the hand life dealt her, not that "looks like those crazy bigots are up to it again festus" and pulling out arguments that are practically archived at this point due to how often they're brought up long story short please stop with the same war that happens in every thread that involves suicide OR transgendered people

[QUOTE=Limed00d;46828623]how do you exactly cure depression so suddenly like that? because I am looking for a cure and apparantly you have that. is it pill based??[/QUOTE] I strongly suggest looking up ECT treatment. Because it really is so suddenly with insane success. Its rather new when it comes to depression but it works extremely good ive heard. Like night and day changes for people. No more meds or pills. Only thing is you need to do is an ECT checkup every 6 months or some shit once you get it going and only really takes about a month to get set on a scheduled for it. Problem is that its treatment for depression is rather new, it can take a long fucking time to get your first appointment, like a year(after that you get in by just calling, its the first that takes so long to get) and its not being done everywhere. In fact I see you are from norway so im not even sure you guys are doing it yet for depression but check it out. Its not a quick fix though so dont think its some magic cure. You have to go back for checkups a few times a year to avoid relapse and like everything, its not 100%. Basically if meds/therapy arent exactly pushing you out of your depression in any real noticeable way, then this is probably your best bet. Theres a few of these treatments, one with magnets and shit and they do work, but ECT is the best of them all.

The suicide is a shame. Very sad. But you don't ever commit suicide by jumping in front of a vehicle. It's super selfish and only makes the driver feel like shit, develop PTSD, and even commit suicide themselves. So, as someone who's been suicidal before: don't kill yourself. But if you absolutely want to, don't. DON'T FUCKING KILL YOURSELF YOU CUNT. The better option is, and always will be, to not fucking off yourself. It's not and never will be worth it. If anyone reading this wants to commit suicide, don't. PM me if you want to, but remember: life always gets better. Time heals everything. These baby boomers are gonna be old farts with dementia soon and then we can laugh at them together.

Just saying, trans depression is fucking brutal. [I]Fucking brutal.[/I]

its still possible to survive source: me and bunch of other transgirls being still alive

[QUOTE=joes33431;46830341]"waa suicide is [I]selfish[/I] why can't you stay alive in [I]misery[/I] and [I]suffering[/I] and [I]agony[/I] only to make [I]me[/I] feel comfortable you [I]selfish bastard[/I]" shut the fuck up.[/QUOTE] Agentfaze is retarded, but he's right. As someone who has had suicide in the family and as someone who had suicidal thoughts, it's a selfish cuntmove and nobody wins. Everybody loses. Just think of the driver with this situation. Imagine how fucked up they are now. They'll have PTSD for the rest of their lives because they drove at the wrong place, at the wrong time and someone jumped in front of their vehicle. It's selfish and I have much less sympathy for people who off themselves with assisted suicide. Just thinking about it makes me angry.

[QUOTE=nnanna;46831498]its still possible to survive source: me and bunch of other transgirls being still alive[/QUOTE] Well yeah, it's always [I]possible[/I] to survive depression. It's just not always easy and sometimes it can just be too overwhelming for a person.

anyone arguing for the case that suicide is selfish has absolutely no concept of what it truly means to be depressed, and i would highly suggest reading into depression symptoms alone as well as dissociation.

[QUOTE=zombays;46831504]Agentfaze is retarded, but he's right. As someone who has had suicide in the family and as someone who had suicidal thoughts, it's a selfish cuntmove and nobody wins. Everybody loses. Just think of the driver with this situation. Imagine how fucked up they are now. They'll have PTSD for the rest of their lives because they drove at the wrong place, at the wrong time and someone jumped in front of their vehicle. It's selfish and I have much less sympathy for people who off themselves with assisted suicide. Just thinking about it makes me angry.[/QUOTE] Uhhhh.."less sympathy for assisted suicide". Why? Assisted suicide (euthanasia) is a last-option solution for people with such poor quality of life that living would be a literal burden (rather than an imagined depression-induced one), terminal illness, complete inability to care for yourself knowingly, etc. It's not "hey I want to die, help me", with the reasons being similar to depression. It's a carefully argued and understood choice. Though if you mean "assisted" suicide as in, jumped in front of a car, that's not what the term means at all.

[QUOTE=Klammyxxl;46831530]anyone arguing for the case that suicide is selfish has absolutely no concept of what it truly means to be depressed, and i would highly suggest reading into depression symptoms alone as well as dissociation.[/QUOTE] Exactly. Most have never been that far in the rut. It's very awful. May Leelah rest in peace. edit; 90 hour workweek, forgive the error. I saw the obituary and didn't see the used name.

[QUOTE=Suff;46831562]May Joshua rest in peace.[/QUOTE] Wow way to disrespect the poor girl with the exact thing that made her commit suicide. +1

[QUOTE=Suff;46831562]Exactly. Most have never been that far in the rut. It's very awful. [I]May Joshua rest in peace.[/I][/QUOTE] sigh

I'm amazed over and over about some FPers' mentality. I wasn't attacking the teen's person, but his/her gesture. I won't change my opinion: suicide (in any form, alone or involving others) is a [B]coward act[/B]. Some will ponder that "it's your life man, do whatever" or "fuck the others, it's my life". But from a christian point of view, suicide is the easy way out, an easy solution to escape problems / pain / suffering / pressure / responsability. It's a selfish act, because it involves the ego of a person, and its inability / lack of coping with (unthreatening) life problems. I'm not ignoring the transgender issue and I understand the social pressure involved. Still, the only form of suicide acceptable to me would be jumping in front of a bus, shoving someone from its path, dieing instead. It's a "deliberate" suicide, but in a pure 100% selfless manner.

Guys, please. She's a girl. This is why she's dead. Calling her Joshua or saying "him/her" is just disrespectful.

[QUOTE=Dr. Haxx;46831595]I'm amazed over and over about some FPers' mentality. I wasn't attacking the teen's person, but his/her gesture. I won't change my opinion: suicide (in any form, alone or involving others) is a [B]coward act[/B]. Pricks will state that "it's your life man, do whatever" or "fuck the others, it's my life". But from a christian point of view, suicide is the easy way out, an easy solution to escape problems / pain / suffering / pressure / responsability. It's a selfish act, because it involves the ego of a person, and its inability / lack of coping with (unthreatening) life problems. I'm not ignoring the transgender issue and I understand the social pressure involved. Still, the only form of suicide acceptable to me would be jumping in front of a bus, shoving someone from its path, dieing instead. It's a "deliberate" suicide, but in a pure 100% selfless manner.[/QUOTE] it wasn't deliberate she legitimately felt that her family offered her nothing in return

Gender dysphoria is a terrible thing to have to deal with if the people in your lives don't accept you for who you really are. May she rest in peace, she seemed like a beautiful person and it's a shame she had to deal with the things she did. It's terrible that she had to leave but I really hope wherever she is now that she is happy.

[QUOTE=Suff;46831562]May Joshua rest in peace.[/QUOTE] fuck off with this shit already

[QUOTE=Dr. Haxx;46831595] But from a christian point of view, suicide is the easy way out, an easy solution to escape problems / pain / suffering / pressure / responsability. It's a selfish act, because it involves the ego of a person, and its inability / lack of coping with (unthreatening) life problems.[/QUOTE] Actually from a Christian point of view, suicide is perhaps the worst sin you can commit and it's punishable by an eternity of torment and agony unimaginable by any living person. So you'll forgive me if I file the Christian point of view in the trash

imagine having trouble calling people the what the pronoun they want to be called, but have literally no problem correcting yourself if it was a dog instead.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;46831705]imagine having trouble calling people the what the pronoun they want to be called, but have literally no problem correcting yourself if it was a dog instead.[/QUOTE] this is the problem with the lgbt rights movement the dude made a mistake and called her Joshua instead of Leelah. Correct him politely instead of being a massive cunt about it and maybe people will start taking the movement seriously.

[QUOTE=geel9;46831730]this is the problem with the lgbt rights movement the dude made a mistake and called her Joshua instead of Leelah. Correct him politely instead of being a massive cunt about it and maybe people will start taking the movement seriously.[/QUOTE] The problem with the LGBT rights movement is that it's comprised of people who think that you shouldn't have to politely remind someone how to be respectful several dozen times before you're allowed to get mad at them? [editline]31st December 2014[/editline] But yeah go ahead and dismiss an entire movement because of the [i]tone[/i] of their arguments instead of the substance of them, geel.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;46831748]The problem with the LGBT rights movement is that it's comprised of people who think that you shouldn't have to politely remind someone how to be respectful several dozen times before you're allowed to get mad at them?[/QUOTE] To clarify my post was aimed at this person [QUOTE=Suff;46831562]Exactly. Most have never been that far in the rut. It's very awful. May Joshua rest in peace.[/QUOTE] who has only posted once in this thread [editline]1st January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Zeke129;46831748] But yeah go ahead and dismiss an entire movement because of the [i]tone[/i] of their arguments instead of the substance of them, geel.[/QUOTE] Zeke if you want this movement to get somewhere you have to stop being caustic fucks towards even the people who are offering condolences and make a fucking mistake when they choose which name to use.

[QUOTE=geel9;46831730]this is the problem with the lgbt rights movement the dude made a mistake and called her Joshua instead of Leelah. Correct him politely instead of being a massive cunt about it and maybe people will start taking the movement seriously.[/QUOTE] Taking the movement seriously? It already has been, awareness is through the roof and at least in terms of LGB, things have been going great. T needs a lot more work but it has made progress. People should be calm and polite, and reasonable. But I do not feel that applies as strongly here. (You, does not mean *you* specifically in my last sentences) You are typing a message that you consciously type and read, and can re-read at any time and submitted at your own choice, along with re-reading everything everyone else has posted. You have to consciously read this thread's article, a few posts, and then post "Rest in Peace, <Use Biological Pronoun/Name instead of Preferred ones>"