Transgender teen leaves note on tumblr blaming Christian parents for suicide - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Shark Bones;46824550]Doesn't make them right/fair/acceptible.[/QUOTE] Honestly, I haven't even argued that they are right, fair, or acceptable. Literally all I've done is try to explain the beliefs, where they come from, and how they work. That's it. [editline]30th December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;46824558]Oh don't even act like you're not doing this as a method to justify why you're right and why these people are also right. [editline]30th December 2014[/editline] that's so transparent.[/QUOTE] Not everything has an ulterior motive. Like I said earlier, I want clarity, nothing more. I want to understand you and I want you to understand me. In my mind, that's enough. Once we all perfectly understand each other than the truth should be obvious.

The ostracization trans people feel, and even gays receive, is pretty sick and outright inhumane. No one deserves that kind of crap, and there is no excuse to treat another like that. and trans threads are always shit. I don't even have to read this thread and I already just KNOW there are people who are completely despicable.

[QUOTE=Shark Bones;46824366]It's kind of weird thinking there are people in this thread who would actively be happy if I killed myself right now, just cuz' I'm trans.[/QUOTE] Not sure it's accurate to call them people

[QUOTE=sgman91;46824564]Honestly, I haven't even argued that they are right, fair, or acceptable. Literally all I've done is try to explain the beliefs, where they come from, and how they work. That's it.[/QUOTE] Why? We know the beliefs, where they come from, and how they work. They're still very upsetting, unfair, and discriminatory beliefs.

[QUOTE=Shark Bones;46824580]Why? We know the beliefs, where they come from, and how they work. They're still very upsetting, unfair, and discriminatory beliefs.[/QUOTE] Because it's a convenient way for him to deny his homophobia to other people while still being homophobic "Hey I don't [I]agree[/I] with it, but it's how it is and we should accept it, ok?"

[QUOTE=sgman91;46824564]Honestly, I haven't even argued that they are right, fair, or acceptable. Literally all I've done is try to explain the beliefs, where they come from, and how they work. That's it. [editline]30th December 2014[/editline] Not everything has an ulterior motive. Like I said earlier, I want clarity, nothing more. I want to understand you and I want you to understand me. In my mind, that's enough. Once we all perfectly understand each other than the truth should be obvious.[/QUOTE] Then how do you feel knowing that the clarity you're trying to offer to people is not clarifying anything to them and just offering a view point that calls itself the truth to people that basically does nothing but subjugate them to a form of existence that puts them in the category of people who are best left untrusted(like a liar) and who are thought to be manipulative and filled with trickery? If this is what you believe and you don't feel the need to question it to yourself, then I don't know what to think of you as a person if you claim there is no "ulterior" motive.

[QUOTE=TheCreeper;46823161]Comment from Mothers Facebook. Even after her death they still fail to recognize their child for what she wanted to be; espcially given its the reason for her death. Fucking disrespctful parients. [IMG]http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2014/12/31/1227170/864492-722ecbac-903e-11e4-9b34-d072426a6c59.jpg[/IMG] Batshit insane as you can see.[/QUOTE] Thanks for not censoring her name. This shit infuriates me and I sent her a FB message just basically calling her a despicable parent. To be honest, I hope she gets lots of those and begins realizing what a piece of shit she is.

Honestly there's a couple ways to interpret this, starting with this teen committing suicide and the mother, under bible teachings, interacting in such a prohibitive manner to let this suicide happen. One could argue that the mother was the culprit in this: her own moral values of restriction and emotional ignorance to her kid lead to the suicide; this would be the most obvious conclusion since she and her husband were the ones cutting the teen off and using Christian counselors who didn't help much. Another conclusion you could draw from the facts is that it's the Bible and the Church teachings that caused her to commit suicide. It comes down to a matter of who you trust more: your religion's teachings or your own moral sense. If the parents trusted their morality, they are more at fault; if the teachings of the church were so strict to guide them in one certain way without any breaks, then it is more of the church's problem. Either way, I'm mad at the church for perpetuating the belief of condemning the transgendered and at the parent for falling in wordlessly with those beliefs.

[QUOTE=Shark Bones;46824580]Why? We know the beliefs, where they come from, and how they work. They're still very upsetting, unfair, and discriminatory beliefs.[/QUOTE] It's clear that the VAST majority of people don't understand them, including many many Christians. Maybe you do, but that doesn't apply to most.

She shouldn't have committed suicide by jumping in front of a truck - that completely fucks up the driver of it. Happened to a friend of my dads, some guy jumped in front of his truck from behind a hood of a car pulled over on the side of the high-way. Then newspaper started saying it was his fault and all of this stupid nonsense - he went nuts over it, actually, and had to take years of therapy. He's still pretty fucked up over it. Completely selfish of her to do but I [i]somewhat[/I] understand her reasoning for taking her own life.

[QUOTE=sgman91;46824384]I already said that I think Christians put too much emphasis on homosexuality. The same Biblical list that contains that also contains things like lying. In my mind the person who intentionally lies for their own benefit is no better than the person who intentionally has sex with people of the same sex. With that said, much of the seeming difference lies in society, not Christianity. Society has grown to accept homosexuality and therefore, the non-acceptance of Christianity stands out. Christians deny marriage to more than just people of the same sex. They also deny it to siblings and polygamists. It just so happens that society still agrees on both those counts, so the church's stance doesn't seem so bad. Note that they also deny sex to any non-married person. Marriage also isn't denied to gay people. Getting married to people of the same sex is denied. I know this doesn't matter much to a gay person, but it's still good to be clear.[/QUOTE] Shit man you were making some good arguments before you spewed all this bullshit. Lying is something you choose to do, knowing full well it is wrong/immoral/a sin etc... Your post amounts to nothing but homosexuals choose to sleep with people of same sex after that. Now since you mentioned clarity is of utmost importance to you: You are right, homosexuals choose to sleep with people of the same sex in the same way heterosexuals choose to sleep with people of the opposite sex. The act of having sex is the choice here not the choice of partners. If you are attracted to someone of the same sex are you supposed to ignore that attraction and ignore your nature/your happiness? And for what? The rest of the post about society and so on is drivel you made up to make your post seem more clever. You assume or claim you've made no judgement and only tried to point out the other side of the issue, and you were doing that quite well in your previous posts about how the mother did what she did out of love and jumping to conclusions is wrong and she still was her mother, but come on this post is nothing but an excuse. You are not trying to present both sides of an argument, you are simply trying to push whatever you believe under the guise of "Look, there are other sides to the story".

[QUOTE=sgman91;46824621]It's clear that the VAST majority of people don't understand them. Maybe you don't, but that doesn't apply to most.[/QUOTE] They come from a book that is actually an anthology that was written over time in different places by different people. It's not that hard to understand, and I explained it in a single sentence. We know a percentage of Christians consider marriage and sex to be sacred, because the book tells them to. We know they discriminate against and abuse their children, because they believe book tells them to. We know they protest the rights of American citizens across the US and people abroad to do what makes them happy, because they believe the book tells them to. It's pretty fucking simple really, and I abhor it. It creates nothing but conflict in the name of the dogmatic principles laid out in the religion. It wrecks families. It ruins lives. All in the name of some petty afterlife, as if all we are experiencing is just a long line at the DMV to see if we get rewarded or punished for how we spent our time waiting. And even further still, that we will be shunned from paradise for merely being associated with or condoning the actions of those who are arbitrarily deemed unworthy, regardless of how good of a person they may be.

Stuff like this makes me feel so thankful for my parents. If was trans they'd be accepting as fuck.

[QUOTE=sgman91;46824621]It's clear that the VAST majority of people don't understand them, including many many Christians. Maybe you do, but that doesn't apply to most.[/QUOTE] As an ex-Christian of 15 years, I know very well the mindset that goes into that stuff. However, it isn't something I think you have to understand clearly to know it's fucked up and wrong. We don't fully understand why crazy genocides happen in the world, but we know it's wrong. Just as dehumanizing people who live differently than you but do not harm you is wrong.

[QUOTE=Shark Bones;46824366]It's kind of weird thinking there are people in this thread who would actively be happy if I killed myself right now, just cuz' I'm trans.[/QUOTE] I don't think its weird, I think its revolting. How can you POSSIBLY want someone to end their own life and be HAPPY about it? Because of what? A book telling you so? It sounds so absurd and quite frankly archaic to me.

[QUOTE=Shark Bones;46824366]It's kind of weird thinking there are people in this thread who would actively be happy if I killed myself right now, just cuz' I'm trans.[/QUOTE] for what it's worth I feel p. powerful knowing there are idiots out there who get angry that I keep being alive

[QUOTE=Shark Bones;46824366]It's kind of weird thinking there are people in this thread who would actively be happy if I killed myself right now, just cuz' I'm trans.[/QUOTE] Why focus on that? I've been told to kill myself countless times, to run in front of a train, to take a gun to my head by a lot of people. Shit, that's just by me being who I am. I could only imagine it in your aspect, but it's not something you should focus on. You should focus on how great you feel for whom you are, honestly. Don't let others verdict your life.

[QUOTE=Solo Wing;46824682]I don't think its weird, I think its revolting. How can you POSSIBLY want someone to end their own life and be HAPPY about it? Because of what? A book telling you so? It sounds so absurd and quite frankly archaic to me.[/QUOTE] delusion and fanaticism have made people think, believe, and do crazy things for as long as written language has existed, religious or otherwise. it's why people can murder for political ideologies that we ourselves think are crazy and irrational.

[QUOTE=Covalent;46824710]Why focus on that? I've been told to kill myself countless times, to run in front of a train, to take a gun to my head by a lot of people. Shit, that's just by me being who I am. I could only imagine it in your aspect, but it's not something you should focus on. You should focus on how great you feel for whom you are, honestly. Don't let others verdict your life.[/QUOTE] Wish I could feel good about who I was. Sadly all I can do is look in the mirror and see the face everyone else sees, a really fruity looking man. That's what's been beaten into me since birth, I can never be allowed to be a woman.

[QUOTE=Shark Bones;46824731]Wish I could feel good about who I was. Sadly all I can do is look in the mirror and see the face everyone else sees, a really fruity looking man. That's what's been beaten into me since birth, I can never be allowed to be a woman.[/QUOTE] Just stop thinking that way about yourself. If you want to change, be the change that you want, for yourself and not for the appeasement of others. It's your life, as long as it's not illegal or endangering others, you're flippin fine.

[QUOTE=Covalent;46824745]Just stop thinking that way about yourself. If you want to change, be the change that you want, for yourself and not for the appeasement of others. It's your life, as long as it's not illegal or endangering others, you're flippin fine.[/QUOTE] except for the part where some law enforcement in some parts of the US are more likely to laugh at someone beating the shit out of a transwoman than actually make an effort to help them.

[QUOTE=joes33431;46824752]except for the part where some law enforcement are more likely to laugh at someone beating the shit out of a transwoman than actually make an effort to help them.[/QUOTE] What an incredibly ignorant thing to say..

[QUOTE=Covalent;46824745]Just stop thinking that way about yourself. If you want to change, be the change that you want, for yourself and not for the appeasement of others. It's your life, as long as it's not illegal or endangering others, you're flippin fine.[/QUOTE] I just don't see the point if society is going to treat me like the opposite gender. I can call myself female all I want, but until people start acknowledging that I'm female, nothing is going to change. I'm just going to feel rejected and meaningless.

[QUOTE=joes33431;46824752]except for the part where some law enforcement are more likely to laugh at someone beating the shit out of a transwoman than actually make an effort to help them.[/QUOTE] You know, it would be cool if you wouldn't undermine someone else's words of encouragement.

[QUOTE=BazzBerry;46824756]What an incredibly ignorant thing to say..[/QUOTE] really? not twenty-some years ago nobody would give a shit if a gay dude in some rural community was harassed, attacked, and ran out of town. not some sixty, seventy years ago the same could easily happen to a man of color. we still live in a society where a male victim of domestic and sexual abuse is ignored by police departments. considering transgender representation and rights are still waaaay behind those of homosexuals, what makes you think that they'll get help from the police in the places where they're most vulnerable? [QUOTE=Sega Saturn;46824775]You know, it would be cool if you wouldn't undermine someone else's words of encouragement.[/QUOTE] they should be fine with [I]themselves[/I], but it's not exactly true to suggest that other people are going to be fine with them. i have a trans friend who lives in arkansas, and she constantly has to hide who she is from her family and neighbors, or else runs the risk of being disowned if not worse. the unfortunate reality is that it's still unsafe to be open about who you are in certain parts of the country, and that needs to change. it really, really needs to change.

[QUOTE=sgman91;46824564]Honestly, I haven't even argued that they are right, fair, or acceptable. Literally all I've done is try to explain the beliefs, where they come from, and how they work. That's it. [/QUOTE] Do you think you're doing us a favor? Nobody gives a shit you're just spewing nonsense and indirectly defending beliefs that cause people to kill themselves. Stop. "I'm not defending them I'm just explaining!" like seriously fuck off with that lame cop-out. Take a side or stop posting. No one wants to listen to your mindless drivel.

[QUOTE=joes33431;46824783]really? not twenty-some years ago nobody would give a shit if a gay dude in some rural community was harassed, attacked, and ran out of town. not some sixty, seventy years ago the same could easily happen to a man of color. we still live in a society where a male victim of domestic and sexual abuse is ignored by police departments. considering transgender representation and rights are still waaaay behind those of homosexuals, what makes you think that they'll get help from the police in the places where they're most vulnerable?[/QUOTE] I merely would change your wording to "In some parts of the country" and it wouldn't be so bad. The US has a lot of variety in terms of demographics based on location.

[QUOTE=soccerskyman;46823512]holy fucking shit the rage i feel is blinding[/QUOTE] I even forget my own age sometimes, give her a break

[QUOTE=Shark Bones;46824761]I just don't see the point if society is going to treat me like the opposite gender. I can call myself female all I want, but until people start acknowledging that I'm female, nothing is going to change. I'm just going to feel rejected and meaningless.[/QUOTE] Keep the tolerating people around you as much as possible, I guess. I can only imagine how hard a dilemma like this must be, when it's about who/what you are. Still, it's [I]your[/I] life, not theirs. You aren't harming anyone...

[QUOTE=Shark Bones;46824731]Wish I could feel good about who I was. Sadly all I can do is look in the mirror and see the face everyone else sees, a really fruity looking man. That's what's been beaten into me since birth, I can never be allowed to be a woman.[/QUOTE] Well at least you're fruity looking and not a hairy man-bear. I think you might just have low self esteem, fruity looking men can have a lot of attractive feminine facial features. Why don't you take a look in the mirror again and tell me you can't find one good feature that you hope doesn't change when you can finally afford the reassignment or hormone therapy (or whatever you're planning on doing). I'd be willing to bet you have nice cheekbones, jawbones, or skin. [QUOTE=Shark Bones;46824761]I just don't see the point if society is going to treat me like the opposite gender. I can call myself female all I want, but until people start acknowledging that I'm female, nothing is going to change. I'm just going to feel rejected and meaningless.[/QUOTE] Fuck society, society always lags behind don't use what society does and doesn't accept as a milestone, milady.