Websites to be forced to identify trolls under new measures - Polidicks

[QUOTE=KirinoKousaka;36295017]Well, people involved in Facebook libel should contact the owners or "moderators" (I don't know what Facebook has, I don't use it) to take charge of deleting the fake accounts. Whatever the case, there's no reason to drag it into real life. When that happens, everyone gets in an uproar about censorship and the evils of online communication.[/QUOTE] Facebook is extremely lazy about deleting fake profiles. Someone who posts in a thread I go to often had someone create a fake page of him and even several weeks later I still don't think they've done a single thing about it. You may try not to drag it into real life but you can't really control other people so they can't drag it into real life either. You can try as hard as you can but sometimes there are just factors that are way out of your jurisdiction of control and preventive measures.

b-but the internet is the only place I can call someone a poophead without getting hurt

[QUOTE=ZestyLemons;36295051]I'm not sure how it is in the USA, but in Canada we have limits, mentioned in my post. It's not really censorship, you can say all you want as long as it's not trying to be hateful towards a certain person, minority, majority, so on.[/QUOTE] If it's prohibiting people from saying certain things, isn't that still censorship? If you have an opinion that a certain race, minority, sexuality etc. should be hated, then it's your opinion and you should still be allowed to express it, even if other people don't condone it. Anyway, it's 3:42 AM, why am I still online? I'm off to bed.

[QUOTE=amcfaggot;36294975]using the internet doesn't make you immune from liability to the things you do, you're just massively less likely to receive punishment in the limited ways you can affect people in comparison to physical interaction[/QUOTE] Without going out of your way (eg. creating malicious pages, photoshopping faces onto porn pics, stealing information etc.) how can someone actually hurt someone online? Saying anything to anyone should be allowed at all times, regardless of medium.

[QUOTE=SuperDuperScoot;36295062]Facebook is extremely lazy about deleting fake profiles. Someone who posts in a thread I go to often had someone create a fake page of him and even several weeks later I still don't think they've done a single thing about it. You may try not to drag it into real life but you can't really control other people so they can't drag it into real life either. You can try as hard as you can but sometimes there are just factors that are way out of your jurisdiction of control and preventive measures.[/QUOTE] I know I can't make people begin or cease doing anything, but in my ideal world there's a clear divide between the online world and the real one, and the two don't meet. Anyway if that's true, Facebook needs to tighten up its rules on fake profiles so the real world doesn't have to get involved.

[QUOTE=KirinoKousaka;36295072]If it's prohibiting people from saying certain things, isn't that still censorship? If you have an opinion that a certain race, minority, sexuality etc. should be hated, then it's your opinion and you should still be allowed to express it, even if other people don't condone it. Anyway, it's 3:42 AM, why am I still online? I'm off to bed.[/QUOTE] With that logic, isn't Facepunch is censoring things? Why can't I spout stereotypes about black people all day? It's because it's not censorship - it's deterrence. You can still go spout how much you hate x, y, and z ethnic groups or whatever you're trying to hate, but you'll suffer the consequences. It's not saying you [I]can't[/I] have an opinion; you could secretly hate anyone you want, but you're not allowed to go out into the public to promote that hatred without any other reason other than to slander or hurt them.

holy crap. as a separate offence? So, say a page gets a million hits. 1 million accounts of defamatory abuse-whatever you want to call it? that is SO stupid.

Ugh, this will just create a new type of Troll. All one would have to do is use free public wifi, and bam, Mc Donald's or Starbucks is hit with the lawsuit.

-snip- ([URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?p=36295122#post36295122"]ZestyLemons[/URL] basically summed up what I was saying in this post)

[QUOTE=ZestyLemons;36295122]With that logic, isn't Facepunch is censoring things? Why can't I spout stereotypes about black people all day? It's because it's not censorship - it's deterrence. You can still go spout how much you hate x, y, and z ethnic groups or whatever you're trying to hate, but you'll suffer the consequences. It's not saying you [I]can't[/I] have an opinion; you could secretly hate anyone you want, but you're not allowed to go out into the public to promote that hatred without any other reason other than to slander or hurt them.[/QUOTE] On FP, you can go on about black people all you want. It's just that once you start to slander them, we realize you are an idiot, and idiocy (most of the time) isn't tolerated here.

[QUOTE=Glaber;36295155]Ugh, this will just create a new type of Troll. All one would have to do is use free public wifi, and bam, Mc Donald's or Starbucks is hit with the lawsuit.[/QUOTE] I don't see why companies wouldn't be exempt from this sort of law.

-snip-

[QUOTE=valkery;36295177]On FP, you can go on about black people all you want. It's just that once you start to slander them, we realize you are an idiot, and idiocy (most of the time) isn't tolerated here.[/QUOTE] Pretty much what I'm trying to say. It's not really censorship, it's deterrence.

ok so then someone gets branded as a troll just because they had a controversial opinion when they were doing jack shit? now what? you going to act as if IP = a person? Ok? What if the above happens and they were using someone elses wifi, and THAT person gets labeled?

[QUOTE=amcfaggot;36295001]Also, I don't understand what you mean by, "Just because I treat soda like it is water does not change the fact that it is soda," considering that would support an argument like mine. Harassing people online can be like harassing people in real life. Just because you call it "trolling" instead of being an asshole and a jerk doesn't mean it's not being an asshole and a jerk.[/QUOTE] How would my analogy help your argument? What I am saying is that people who think the internet should be taken the same way as real, physical interactions are stupid. They should realize that it is not nearly the same thing, and should operate accordingly.

[QUOTE=J!NX;36295192]ok so then someone gets branded as a troll just because they had a controversial opinion when they were doing jack shit? now what?[/QUOTE] groundless lawsuit, it's that simple. plus this law falls under cyberbulling, not "lol sued" because you didn't like someone's opinion.

[QUOTE=amcfaggot;36295001]Also, I don't understand what you mean by, "Just because I treat soda like it is water does not change the fact that it is soda," considering that would support an argument like mine. Harassing people online can be like harassing people in real life. Just because you call it "trolling" instead of being an asshole and a jerk doesn't mean it's not being an asshole and a jerk.[/QUOTE] Harassment is sort of a vague term. If people are going as far to harass you IRL by sending you pizzas, prank calling you, and framing you for crimes, then yeah, it should be dealt with. What most users on FP are concerned about is that people are soon going to get the term "harassment" synonymous with lower degrees of harassment (E.G, "you are fucking bad at singing"). If it does get anywhere near that point, then it's ridiculous as hell.

[QUOTE=ZestyLemons;36295122]With that logic, isn't Facepunch is censoring things? Why can't I spout stereotypes about black people all day? It's because it's not censorship - it's deterrence. You can still go spout how much you hate x, y, and z ethnic groups or whatever you're trying to hate, but you'll suffer the consequences. It's not saying you [I]can't[/I] have an opinion; you could secretly hate anyone you want, but you're not allowed to go out into the public to promote that hatred without any other reason other than to slander or hurt them.[/QUOTE] That's why I support the Internet and real life being seperate. Someone having their own webpage to slander minorities isn't the same as going out in the street and shouting it for all to hear; it's more like having meetings that people can join if they choose to, but aren't forced. No one can sit you down and MAKE you read racial hatred on the Internet.

[QUOTE=valkery;36295209]How would my analogy help your argument? What I am saying is that people who think the internet should be taken the same way as real, physical interactions are stupid. They should realize that it is not nearly the same thing, and should operate accordingly.[/QUOTE] Yeah, lemme just tell all your potential employers that you're a pedophile and a suspected sexual predator. Totally stupid, doesn't have any effect on your life. Or maybe I could lie to all of your classmates and tell them you're a thief and habitual liar; coerce my targets enough to believe anything you say in retaliation is false defense, and suddenly petty objects and money disappear whenever you're around. Definitely no big deal, I mean it is just a prank right? We'll return all of the money and property back once you open your mouth. Not gonna cause you a single moment of grief at all. [editline]11th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;36295235]Harassment is sort of a vague term. If people are going as far to harass you IRL by sending you pizzas, prank calling you, and framing you for crimes, then yeah, it should be dealt with. What most users on FP are concerned about is that people are soon going to get the term "harassment" synonymous with lower degrees of harassment (E.G, "you are fucking bad at singing"). If it does get anywhere near that point, then it's ridiculous as hell.[/QUOTE] The point of the article was libel.

[QUOTE=amcfaggot;36295277]Yeah, lemme just tell all your potential employers that you're a pedophile and a suspected sexual predator. Totally stupid, doesn't have any effect on your life. Or maybe I could lie to all of your classmates and tell them you're a thief and habitual liar; coerce my targets enough to believe anything you say in retaliation is false defense, and suddenly petty objects and money disappear whenever you're around. Definitely no big deal, I mean it is just a prank right? We'll return all of the money and property back once you open your mouth. Not gonna cause you a single moment of grief at all. [/QUOTE] If you are of a weak enough character that people believe this, and employers are dumb enough to believe hear-say without a background check, then yes. It would have an adverse effect on my life. However, if you are constantly slamming me, you begin to look petty, and then people start to judge you, look into your dirty little secrets. Everything comes full circle. People don't realize that. I'm just saying that the circle should not include the ever expanding arm of the law.

[QUOTE=valkery;36295348]If you are of a weak enough character that people believe this, and employers are dumb enough to believe hear-say without a background check, then yes. It would have an adverse effect on my life. However, if you are constantly slamming me, you begin to look petty, and then people start to judge you, look into your dirty little secrets. Everything comes full circle. People don't realize that. I'm just saying that the circle should not include the ever expanding arm of the law.[/QUOTE] Once again, libel has been illegal for a long time. In all mediums. Why should the internet be any different? So basically you are saying that libel should never be dealt with by the law just because it is on the internet? I don't think you fully understand how serious libel is. Libel is the kind of thing that has ruined businesses. It is the kind of thing that makes people who don't know you look down on you. It's the kind of thing that could bar you from a job because someone doesn't want to deal with someone who was accused of a felony. Oh and seriously? "If you are of a weak enough character" Victim blaming much?

[QUOTE=valkery;36294805][B]Just because I treat soda like it is water does not change the fact that it is soda.[/B] I'm sorry, but people who treat the internet the same way they treat real, physical interactions are dumb. The entire reason behind the internet is rapid data transfer. No one can possibly interact with as many people in real life as they do on the internet, and they should be aware of that. The internet should come with disclaimers, letting everyone who isn't already aware know that the internet is a place where you are probably going to be abused.[/QUOTE] Your argument is void because of this statement. Just because you treat social interaction over the internet like it is not social interaction does not change the fact that it is social interaction.

[QUOTE=J!NX;36295192]ok so then someone gets branded as a troll just because they had a controversial opinion when they were doing jack shit? now what? you going to act as if IP = a person? Ok? What if the above happens and they were using someone elses wifi, and THAT person gets labeled?[/QUOTE] what you are getting at is correct there is no rational way to justify this bill which will be imposed onto websites it is simply a waste of important resources, taxpayers money, and time unsavory comments will simply exist on the Interent, because it is a highly publicized and inexpenisve resource, no matter what [B]edit:[/B] management of libel and unwarranted comments are meant be catered by the website and its community itself, not the government

There is a bold line between freedom of speech and impersonating someone and then acting like a pedophile and drug dealer. Had the trolling been simple negative remarks or some sort of harassment that could be ignored, i wouldn't give a rats ass. But impersonating somebody on facepunch, a social networking site that is commonly viewed by friends and employers, that is way over the top and should not happen.

Insulting someone over the internet is considered trolling now? When did this happen? If I recall correctly, trolling is more about making the other person reply to you and making THEMSELVES look like an idiot. Not LOL U SUCK I TROLL U, MAD? Back in my day, trolling was an art. Etc. Etc.

Well shit. Facepunch'll die in a day.

[QUOTE=Jin;36296811]Insulting someone over the internet is considered trolling now? When did this happen? If I recall correctly, trolling is more about making the other person reply to you and making THEMSELVES look like an idiot. Not LOL U SUCK I TROLL U, MAD? Back in my day, trolling was an art. Etc. Etc.[/QUOTE] Read the article...

[QUOTE=scout1;36297067]Read the article...[/QUOTE] The article describes blatant, unsubtle harassment and abuse over the internet. There's a fine line between getting a rise out of someone and being a dick.

Solution: Don't use Facebook. It's pretty much already invading your privacy and this is just the nail in your coffin.

[QUOTE=Jin;36297165]The article describes blatant, unsubtle harassment and abuse over the internet. There's a fine line between getting a rise out of someone and being a dick.[/QUOTE] lol they're the same thing