President Obama invokes executive privilege to block release of Fast and Furious documents - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Loriborn;36421260]Thing is, Americans would never go to such lengths. We're too comfortable in our lives to ever uprise in such a way against the government. Yeah, we'll get pissed, complain on the internet, but no one is going to manage to get enough support to have a full blow revolution. Honestly? I'd rather not. It's a bloody mess that's more likely to instill even more fear and dictatorship than actually promote an actual healthy democracy.[/QUOTE] Because all violent conflict is bad, we should totally disregard the fact that violent uprisings in the past have lead the creation of Modern America and Europe. It was alright to fight against royalty, but when it comes to elected officials we hold a trashbag approach to it. "Eh, we'll find another one. I'm sure the next won't break."

[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;36420631]Holy shit, they fucked up BIG TIME[/QUOTE] They did it so they can track them to figure out where the guns were going. Great plan, but forgot to devise a system to track the weapons

[QUOTE=The Baconator;36420665]In case FP doesn't know, this operation wasn't just a failure, one of the guns was used to kill an American Citizen[/QUOTE] Not just a citizen, a United States Border Patrol Officer. A federal agent. Bit of a difference here. [editline]21st June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;36424217]Pretty sure the program was started in 2006 under Bush, this entire thing has turned into nothing but a Republican attempt to stick it onto Obama but the truth is nothing is even as close to as bad as the shit that went on under Bush, because there were so many. All of those scandals and stuff, the RNC needs to pin something similar on Obama but they aren't going to get anything.[/QUOTE] No, the ATF had a similar operation (Operation Wide Reciever) under Bush to identify which firearms shops the Cartel bought weapons at. They identified some outlets and some mules who were ferrying cash and guns, while 450 guns fell into the Cartels hands. Under the Obama administration (Operation Fast and Furious) 2,000 guns fell into the Cartels hands with no arrests, and a Border Patrol agent was killed by an ATF-tracked weapon. With no arrests and most of the guns still in Mexico, there is a serious problem here. He can't really pin this one on Bush, that's why this is sort of an issue for Obama.

The Border Agent that got killed had a shotgun loaded with beanbag rounds vs an AK47.

[QUOTE=Cone;36422347]I thought this meant there was some kind of a lawsuit against the movie and Obama was stopping it but yeah I hope this doesn't kill his chances of reelection[/QUOTE] He's covering something big up and all you care about is hoping it doesn't hurt his chances of re-election? What about the transparency he promised during the 2008 election?

[QUOTE=Noble;36426029]What about the transparency he promised during the 2008 election?[/QUOTE] Election year pandering.

[QUOTE=RR_Raptor65;36421076]Guess what, if Obama is defending these criminals, he's just as involved as they are. Fast and Furious was [U]stupid[/U], a blatant violation of the very same laws that would land the average American 30 or more years in jail. Every single son of a bitch involved should be punished to that same extent you or I would face, they aren't and should not be above the law because they hold a position in government.[/QUOTE] [img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/tick.png[/img] [QUOTE=RR_Raptor65;36421076] It's bullshit like this that has robbed all trust I have in the Government to the point where I consider them the worst enemy to America and it's people today, I just wish more people would wake up and see beyond what Fox News and the various other media go on about (Or don't go on about in the case of Fast and Furious).[/QUOTE] [img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/cross.png[/img] why is it that good posts often careen into idiocy 99% of the time the government isn't out to get you, the motive behind f&f was good, no matter how hard they fucked it up

[QUOTE=cccritical;36426081]why is it that good posts often careen into idiocy[/QUOTE] Good question my good sir. Answer for yourself. [QUOTE=cccritical;36426081]99% of the time the government isn't out to get you, the motive behind f&f was good, no matter how hard they fucked it up[/QUOTE] That's true it isn't out to get you, but there is so much ludicrous stupidity going on in Washington DC that I don't think elections can fix our current problems now. Fast and Furious was the dumbest fucking idea with a good intention, because they just took some guns and cheap as fuck RFID's that only had a weeks worth of battery life. Because of this hundreds if not thousands of Mexican's have been mowed down in senseless drug warfare, and is now including American citizens to the death toll.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36420918]Except now he has the responsibility about saying how these people fucked up, and releasing this information. This is unacceptable.[/QUOTE] Ah yes, ignore the fact that it would have a laundry list of agents on the inside. [editline]21st June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Noble;36426029]He's covering something big up and all you care about is hoping it doesn't hurt his chances of re-election? What about the transparency he promised during the 2008 election?[/QUOTE] You mean a promise that can never be [I]fulfilled[/I]? There are some things the president doesn't even know about.

[QUOTE=VengfulSoldier;36427642]Ah yes, ignore the fact that it would have a laundry list of agents on the inside.[/quote] Biggest fucking excuse to cover up for criminals in the entire world. This is worse than the fucking Pope covering up child molestation cases, because in this case Obama is covering up fucking murder. [quote]You mean a promise that can never be [I]fulfilled[/I]? There are some things the president doesn't even know about.[/QUOTE] He hasn't even made an effort.

The only reason I heard about this was due to the fact that it's something he's recently trying to cover up. Streisand effect.

I don't think were getting the full story here.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36427740]Biggest fucking excuse to cover up for criminals in the entire world. This is worse than the fucking Pope covering up child molestation cases, because in this case Obama is covering up fucking murder. He hasn't even made an effort.[/QUOTE] Did you actually look at all the facts? And if you look at the tally, the Obama White house has been much more transparent then previous administrations since this is the first time he's actually used the EP. [url]http://mediamatters.org/research/201206200013[/url] Filled with tons of facts even going back to when Nixon first used the Executive Privilege. This is actually incredibly consistent with previous Obama Administration statements, this was an unauthorized operation that they have been internally investigating. For all we know, someone in Congress could be doing this to stop the investigation. At the end of the day, we don't have enough facts, just actions and lots of corpses.

[QUOTE=Speedhax;36427792]I don't think were getting the full story here.[/QUOTE] When in history has anybody ever?

[QUOTE=Cypher_09;36427825]When in history has anybody ever?[/QUOTE] Which is exactly my point, we're missing massive chunks of information here. For all we know the Republicans might've authorized this operation and it was going underway when Obama went into office.

[QUOTE=VengfulSoldier;36427795]Did you actually look at all the facts? And if you look at the tally, the Obama White house has been much more transparent then previous administrations since this is the first time he's actually used the EP. [url]http://mediamatters.org/research/201206200013[/url] Filled with tons of facts even going back to when Nixon first used the Executive Privilege. This is actually incredibly consistent with previous Obama Administration statements, this was an unauthorized operation that they have been internally investigating. For all we know, someone in Congress could be doing this to stop the investigation. At the end of the day, we don't have enough facts, just actions and lots of corpses.[/QUOTE] You know that using MediaMatters is about as helpful as me quoting Fox News right? And I clicked it and it's just some stupid spin article pointed at Fox and Republicans. [editline]21st June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=VengfulSoldier;36427858]Which is exactly my point, we're missing massive chunks of information here. For all we know the Republicans might've authorized this operation and it was going underway when Obama went into office.[/QUOTE] Wild postulation. You need to back things up with actual facts. Give me articles that don't come from a spin machine, give me something factual.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36427861]You know that using MediaMatters is about as helpful as me quoting Fox News right? And I clicked it and it's just some stupid spin article pointed at Fox and Republicans.[/QUOTE] Its actually more then that if you actually read the article, it goes down to explain, using full quotes. Media Matters is only biased in that it actually uses full facts, not half assed ones. [editline]21st June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;36427861] [editline]21st June 2012[/editline] Wild postulation. You need to back things up with actual facts. Give me articles that don't come from a spin machine, give me something factual.[/QUOTE] All you have is Obama using executive privilege to block this, a bloody war, and a botched operation. Trying to connect the dots is just as wild without clear evidence to say otherwise.

ah come now, we all knew that the mexican cartels were getting guns off the americans, just like every middle eastern country, pretty much (don't hurt me for my very very slight exaggeration)

[QUOTE=VengfulSoldier;36427873] All you have is Obama using executive privilege to block this, a bloody war, and a botched operation. Trying to connect the dots is just as wild without clear evidence to say otherwise.[/QUOTE] The act of blocking the release of information makes Obama complicit in the crimes of the administration. That's what I'm saying. Details besides that are irrelevant, what matters is that Obama is a criminal and we shouldn't grant him legitimacy anymore.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36427918]The act of blocking the release of information makes Obama complicit in the crimes of the administration. That's what I'm saying. Details besides that are irrelevant, what matters is that Obama is a criminal and we shouldn't grant him legitimacy anymore.[/QUOTE] So you're tying his murder, to a botched operation, that for all we know, He didn't actually know about. These documents aren't even about the actual operation, these are the emails sent back and forth within the Justice department. The committee is fishing for a reason to make Holder resign. And also, unforseen deaths due to your own actions is AT BEST man slaughter.

[QUOTE=VengfulSoldier;36427962]So you're tying his murder, to a botched operation, that for all we know, He didn't actually know about. These documents aren't even about the actual operation, these are the emails sent back and forth within the Justice department. The committee is fishing for a reason to make Holder resign. And also, unforseen deaths due to your own actions is AT BEST man slaughter.[/QUOTE] You're fishing around for semantical loopholes, but you aren't making any sense. I don't care what the fuck you call murder or manslaughter. Obama is blocking the release of information regarding an operation that killed people due to criminal negligence in the administration. Obama is complicit in this crime.

[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;36424325]Fast and Furious was a complete failure. Covering it up only makes things worse.[/QUOTE] He just doesn't want people to know about next year's operation, 2 Fast 2 Furious.

But it is totally cool that we have the Obama Apologist in the thread. It's slightly less disheartening than a Republican Apologist, even though you are 99% the same.

[QUOTE=cccritical;36426081]why is it that good posts often careen into idiocy 99% of the time the government isn't out to get you, the motive behind f&f was good, no matter how hard they fucked it up[/QUOTE] You can do a lot of things with the best intentions and for those actions to still be wrong. Tracking down cartels to arrest them is a good thing, intentionally allowing weapons to fall into their hands for whatever reason is not. Enacting laws which go against the constitution and the bill of rights may be done with the best intentions, but it's still wrong. No, the Fed is not out to get me or you, but their actions are harmful, even dangerous and need to be stopped.

[QUOTE=cccritical;36426081][img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/tick.png[/img] [img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/cross.png[/img] why is it that good posts often careen into idiocy 99% of the time the government isn't out to get you, the motive behind f&f was good, no matter how hard they fucked it up[/QUOTE] The government might not be out to get us, fine, I'll give you that. But the government screws up wayyyy to often for it to be beneficial in my opinion. Not to mention that politicians only care about the people when its election time. Also not mentioning that the voting system in American is flawed as well, a.k.a not a true democracy.

Holy shit, the hypocrisy in that article is immense. Obama blaming Bush for using executive privileged then uses it himself, then Romney of all people criticizes Obama for using it as well. It's like some kind of looping cycle, and if the media has a field day on this I'm kind of afraid for the upcoming elections.

[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;36420659]This could kill Obama's chances for re-election. I'm scared.[/QUOTE] If he's going to pull stunts like this, I hope it does. Watergate scandle v2.0, here we come.

[QUOTE=LF9000;36429198]The government might not be out to get us, fine, I'll give you that. But the government screws up wayyyy to often for it to be beneficial in my opinion. Not to mention that politicians only care about the people when its election time. Also not mentioning that the voting system in American is flawed as well, a.k.a not a true democracy.[/QUOTE] I hear you but a true democracy of 3 hundred million people would get fucking nothing done.

How fucking stoned you have to be to think that giving drug smugglers weapons is a good idea.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36428001]I don't care what the fuck you call murder or manslaughter. Obama is blocking the release of information regarding an operation that killed people due to criminal negligence in the administration. Obama is complicit in this crime.[/QUOTE] Woah woah woah, what the fuck? You're going the route of that nutjob who wants records from a car dealership that rented somebody a vehicle used in a hit and run because he was obviously in on the conspiracy a ragga blarga blarr. Stop frothing at the mouth and read a smidge, would you?