President Obama invokes executive privilege to block release of Fast and Furious documents - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;36429791]Woah woah woah, what the fuck? You're going the route of that nutjob who wants records from a car dealership that rented somebody a vehicle used in a hit and run because he was obviously in on the conspiracy a ragga blarga blarr. Stop frothing at the mouth and read a smidge, would you?[/QUOTE] Your analogy might work better if the guy who gave him the car listened to the driver talk openly about how he might drive on sidewalks and see what happens while drinking a six-pack of beer, and decided it'd be okay to give him the car anyway. That's a very poor analogy to pick.

[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;36429889]Your analogy might work better if the guy who gave him the car listened to the driver talk openly about how he might drive on sidewalks and see what happens while drinking a six-pack of beer, and decided it'd be okay to give him the car anyway.[/QUOTE] Nah, but that misconception flies well if you're the type to buy into a "politically motivated, taxpayer-funded, election-year fishing expedition". [QUOTE][URL="http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/21/white-house-dismisses-house-fast-and-furious-investigation/"]What is now at issue are papers stemming from the administration’s response to the Congressional investigation.[/URL][/QUOTE] I think you kids should read that line for a few hours until it finally sinks in.

[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;36429975]Nah, but that misconception flies well if you're the type to buy into a "politically motivated, taxpayer-funded, election-year fishing expedition". I think you kids should read that line for a few hours until it finally sinks in.[/QUOTE] Except, you know, the Fast and Furious investigation was launched in January 2011, a month after a U.S. Border Patrol agent was shot and killed with a gun involved in the operation. Hardly an "election-year fishing expedition" when it's been going on for a year and a half now, kiddo. Maybe you should do a bit more research into the operation and the congressional investigation.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36428001]You're fishing around for semantical loopholes, but you aren't making any sense. I don't care what the fuck you call murder or manslaughter. Obama is blocking the release of information regarding an operation that killed people due to criminal negligence in the administration. Obama is complicit in this crime.[/QUOTE] Perhaps we should have arrested JFK for criminal negligence. After all, the official report on Bay of Pigs was classified top secret until 1996. It was a botched job. If we arrested every President who had a botched operation under their administration, we'd be doing it all the time. Why is trying to stop the cartels such a horrible thing? It wasn't even authorized by him. This was taking place long before he ever became President.

[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;36429791]Woah woah woah, what the fuck? You're going the route of that nutjob who wants records from a car dealership that rented somebody a vehicle used in a hit and run because he was obviously in on the conspiracy a ragga blarga blarr. Stop frothing at the mouth and read a smidge, would you?[/QUOTE] Do you have any clue what you're talking about How is this a fucking conspiracy, you berk? How? This is not a conspiracy, this is the government being complicit in a crime because [b]they sold guns to the Mexican drug cartels.[/b] These guns were later used to [b]murder people,[/b] including an AMERICAN CITIZEN. So, how is the Obama administration NOT complicit in this crime? You sound like an idiot who blindly defends the Obama administration because voting for a black president made you feel good or something. You're no better than the very nutjob you mock if you talk shit like this. [editline]21st June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=rilez;36430613]Perhaps we should have arrested JFK for criminal negligence. After all, the official report on Bay of Pigs was classified top secret until 1996. It was a botched job. If we arrested every President who had a botched operation under their administration, we'd be doing it all the time. Why is trying to stop the cartels such a horrible thing? It wasn't even authorized by him. This was taking place long before he ever became President.[/QUOTE] It was also taking place while he WAS president. When he KNEW it was happening. Why would he block the release of the information if he doesn't have something to hide?

[QUOTE=Strongbad;36430633]It was also taking place while he WAS president. When he KNEW it was happening. Why would he block the release of the information if he doesn't have something to hide?[/QUOTE] Maybe they're investigating the operation, and a public release of their information would make it impossible to track the men who killed this guy? No, he must be using executive privilege to cover up the millions that came out of his own pocket to fund this op. That would make a great television show.

All the people that watch Fox news freak out over this as said at MSNBC [QUOTE=jeimizu;36428013]He just doesn't want people to know about next year's operation, 2 Fast 2 Furious.[/QUOTE] My sides

[QUOTE=rilez;36430749]Maybe they're investigating the operation, and a public release of their information would make it impossible to track the men who killed this guy? No, he must be using executive privilege to cover up the millions that came out of his own pocket to fund this op. That would make a great television show.[/QUOTE] I like how you point out that that could be the case but don't acknowledge that the other side of the scenario is equally possible. Sure, it could be that the information is sensitive. It could be that if I stand on the edge of Lake Michigan and throw a rock out, it'll land in a boat. It's possibly, but it isn't likely. If that was the case, what's stopping them from saying "This information is sensitive and releasing it could damage the chances of solving the case, STFU."?

Would they call the prequel Slow and Subdued? Watch Obama answer mundane telephone calls for 3 hours.

Obama isn't stupid. He probably has a damn good reason for this (such as the fact that the documents, if released, would compromise the investigation). This isn't exactly a "government cover up" because we KNOW shit was blocked and we KNOW the disaster that happened. Obama most likely has plans to release them sometime before the election. And you guys seriously need to calm down and stop being so reactionary until we fully understand what's going on.

[QUOTE=Key_in_skillee;36431805]Obama isn't stupid. He probably has a damn good reason for this (such as the fact that the documents, if released, would compromise the investigation). This isn't exactly a "government cover up" because we KNOW shit was blocked and we KNOW the disaster that happened. Obama most likely has plans to release them sometime before the election. And you guys seriously need to calm down and stop being so reactionary until we fully understand what's going on.[/QUOTE] He is not releasing the documents because re-election is coming up, and he is already being out funded. Obama cried, "Government transparency!" during his 2008 election. Now he is being hypocritical because it will negatively effect him.

[QUOTE=Funcoot;36432211]He is not releasing the documents because re-election is coming up, and he is already being out funded. Obama cried, "Government transparency!" during his 2008 election. Now he is being hypocritical because it will negatively effect him.[/QUOTE] What are you exactly saying, that obama did this to fuck up his chance of getting re-elected?? Really, your post makes no sense man.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;36432261]What are you exactly saying, that obama did this to fuck up his chance of getting re-elected?? Really, your post makes no sense man.[/QUOTE] What? I think you misread. I am saying, the release of these documents would negatively impact his re-election campaign.

I don't know which is worse: Obama's administration is refusing to release documents that could hurt him in election season, or the Republicans running a massive witch hunt in hopes of finding at least one scandal to hurt him with. At this point in Bush's first term, the Democrats were drowning in Republican scandals. Nowadays, the GOP only has one and they're trying everything to make it stick.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;36432351]I don't know which is worse: Obama's administration is refusing to release documents that could hurt him in election season, or the Republicans running a massive witch hunt in hopes of finding at least one scandal to hurt him with. At this point in Bush's first term, the Democrats were drowning in Republican scandals. Nowadays, the GOP only has one and they're trying everything to make it stick.[/QUOTE] You do realize that you're basically saying that both sides are idiots and are both going on huge witch-hunts for this shit, right? Also, I hope you realize that Obama's approval rating is so low that they'd only need one good scandal to get him out.

I'm really starting to see Obama as the lesser of two evils in the upcoming election. I just hope he'll fulfill his promises if he gets reelected.

[QUOTE=Kiwi Bird;36432990]I'm really starting to see Obama as the lesser of two evils in the upcoming election. I just hope he'll fulfill his promises if he gets reelected.[/QUOTE] He barely fulfilled his promises in his first term. Why should he get a second chance to fuck things up even further?

[QUOTE=Strongbad;36433009]He barely fulfilled his promises in his first term. Why should he get a second chance to fuck things up even further?[/QUOTE] Better than romney.

[QUOTE=Strongbad;36433009]He barely fulfilled his promises in his first term. Why should he get a second chance to fuck things up even further?[/QUOTE] LOL GOOD ONE

There is no executive privelige if the Court challenges it.

[QUOTE=rilez;36430613]Perhaps we should have arrested JFK for criminal negligence. After all, the official report on Bay of Pigs was classified top secret until 1996. It was a botched job. If we arrested every President who had a botched operation under their administration, we'd be doing it all the time. Why is trying to stop the cartels such a horrible thing? It wasn't even authorized by him. This was taking place long before he ever became President.[/QUOTE] I don't have a problem with government officials being arrested for breaking the law. Not at all, maybe at some point the jackasses would become a minority instead of the majority. And going after the cartels is not a bad thing, it's the way they did it and they broke their own Federal laws to do it. If a police officer dragged you out of your vehicle to search for drugs or doughnuts after you refused the request for a vehicle search, would you be ok with that? He would be breaking the law by doing that unless he had a warrant and as far as I know there's no such thing as a warrant that lets you sell firearms to foreign criminals like the ATF did, that's the sort of thing that's so incredibly illegal the ATF would declare your court date a holiday for all the fun they'd have stringing you up. More than a few states have told the ATF they don't want to follow federal law anymore by passing bills that they're trying to get the courts to recognize as exempting state citizens from federal law if they follow a few conditions.

[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;36430224]Except, you know, the Fast and Furious investigation was launched in January 2011, a month [B]after[/B] a U.S. Border Patrol agent was shot and killed with a gun involved in the operation.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]What is now at issue are papers stemming from the administration’s [B]response to[/B] the Congressional investigation.[/QUOTE] Learn how to read, Schmendrick. [QUOTE=Strongbad;36430633]This is not a conspiracy, this is the government being complicit in a crime because [b]they sold guns to the Mexican drug cartels.[/b] These guns were later used to [b]murder people,[/b] including an AMERICAN CITIZEN. So, how is the Obama administration NOT complicit in this crime?[/QUOTE] "The government" is not some tower with Obama in a throne on top telling each and every dude beneath him how to behave. He is not Doctor goddamn Doom, which you imbeciles want to assume so you can get your hate boners on. I'm sorry the sane folk are mad at [I]an agency[/I] and not [I]everybody who ever spoke to anyone within it.[/I] [QUOTE=Strongbad;36430887]I like how you point out that that could be the case but don't acknowledge that the other side of the scenario is equally possible.[/QUOTE] I like how you use conspiracy logic, which is why I mentioned it in the first place. Consider what you just said, as examined logically: It could be [extremely common occurrence in investigations] but it's equally possible it could be [yet to be seen corruption]. I suppose it could be reptile men too, but there's a reason nobody is taking that hypothesis seriously.

[QUOTE=Loriborn;36421260]Thing is, Americans would never go to such lengths. We're too comfortable in our lives to ever uprise in such a way against the government. Yeah, we'll get pissed, complain on the internet, but no one is going to manage to get enough support to have a full blow revolution. Honestly? I'd rather not. It's a bloody mess that's more likely to instill even more fear and dictatorship than actually promote an actual healthy democracy.[/QUOTE] and this is the sole reason the US gov't gets away with what it does. Congress isn't afraid of their people getting pissed as all hell. Congress knows we'll just continue to stick to our fried & double-wide.

[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;36433817]Learn how to read, Schmendrick. "The government" is not some tower with Obama in a throne on top telling each and every dude beneath him how to behave. He is not Doctor goddamn Doom, which you imbeciles want to assume so you can get your hate boners on. I'm sorry the sane folk are mad at [I]an agency[/I] and not [I]everybody who ever spoke to anyone within it.[/I] I like how you use conspiracy logic, which is why I mentioned it in the first place. Consider what you just said, as examined logically: It could be [extremely common occurrence in investigations] but it's equally possible it could be [yet to be seen corruption]. I suppose it could be reptile men too, but there's a reason nobody is taking that hypothesis seriously.[/QUOTE] Perhaps you should articulate your point better instead of insulting anyone who disagrees with you, because I don't get what you're trying to argue. Also, schmendrick? Using obscure insults does not make you look smarter. It makes you look like a stuck-up prick who [i]thinks[/i] he's smarter than everyone else.

[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;36433817]Learn how to read, Schmendrick. "The government" is not some tower with Obama in a throne on top telling each and every dude beneath him how to behave. He is not Doctor goddamn Doom, which you imbeciles want to assume so you can get your hate boners on. I'm sorry the sane folk are mad at [I]an agency[/I] and not [I]everybody who ever spoke to anyone within it.[/I] I like how you use conspiracy logic, which is why I mentioned it in the first place. Consider what you just said, as examined logically: It could be [extremely common occurrence in investigations] but it's equally possible it could be [yet to be seen corruption]. I suppose it could be reptile men too, but there's a reason nobody is taking that hypothesis seriously.[/QUOTE] "Anyone who doesn't share my opinion is an idiot!!1" Seriously, dude, you're so good at debating. You must have read a book. Okay, so are you seriously expecting me to believe that an operation as big as Fast and Furious is going on without Obama's knowledge? Are you really so stupid that you think Obama didn't know? The only way he couldn't have known is if there was an actual conspiracy to conceal it from him, and seeing as you've spent the whole thread deriding conspiracies and being pretty much the best thing ever(haha) I don't think that's the case, because if it were, it would mean you were wrong.

[QUOTE=Strongbad;36435425]"Anyone who doesn't share my opinion is an idiot!!1" Seriously, dude, you're so good at debating. You must have read a book. Okay, so are you seriously expecting me to believe that an operation as big as Fast and Furious is going on without Obama's knowledge? Are you really so stupid that you think Obama didn't know? The only way he couldn't have known is if there was an actual conspiracy to conceal it from him, and seeing as you've spent the whole thread deriding conspiracies and being pretty much the best thing ever(haha) I don't think that's the case, because if it were, it would mean you were wrong.[/QUOTE] Well, the various parts of the government do have some autonomy. For instance, I believe Obama was clued in relatively late into that operation that killed Osama Bin Laden. Also, there are some big precedents for this, i.e [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair[/url] under Reagan, who also said he was not aware of it. I don't think Obama was involved in this except for using his executive privilege. What if more lives were at stake if he released the information at this moment? Perhaps he intends to release the information once it blows over.

[QUOTE=DoctorSalt;36436431]I don't think Obama was involved in this except for using his executive privilege. What if more lives were at stake if he released the information at this moment? Perhaps he intends to release the information once it blows over.[/QUOTE] I don't think he was involved beforehand either, but when the shit hit the fan I don't doubt he knew about it, and at that point any undercover agents should have been told to get the hell out when Fast and Furious had it's whistle blown anyway. Obama should not have blocked the release of those documents, it was a pretty dumb thing to do and he's probably gonna pay for it.

[QUOTE=RR_Raptor65;36436740]I don't think he was involved beforehand either, but when the shit hit the fan I don't doubt he knew about it, and at that point any undercover agents should have been told to get the hell out when Fast and Furious had it's whistle blown anyway. Obama should not have blocked the release of those documents, it was a pretty dumb thing to do and he's probably gonna pay for it.[/QUOTE] Some foreknowledge, under Bush's administration this was called operation Wide Receiver, which apparently was very similar except for one big different: They kept a much more vigilant tracking system. From what I've heard, this system failed and they abandoned the operation. I agree it is probably a dumb thing to block the documents which is which is why I think there is more too this in the way of "damaging consequences" that might cost American or Mexican lives if released.

[QUOTE=DoctorSalt;36436431]Well, the various parts of the government do have some autonomy. For instance, I believe Obama was clued in relatively late into that operation that killed Osama Bin Laden. Also, there are some big precedents for this, i.e [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair[/url] under Reagan, who also said he was not aware of it. I don't think Obama was involved in this except for using his executive privilege. What if more lives were at stake if he released the information at this moment? Perhaps he intends to release the information once it blows over.[/QUOTE] If he was clued in so late, why did he claim credit for it?

[QUOTE=The Baconator;36420665]In case FP doesn't know, this operation wasn't just a failure, one of the guns was used to kill an American Citizen[/QUOTE] But they would have got those guns anyway, just from different people.