Trump attempts to gain the Hispanic vote by photographing himself with a taco
161 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Map in a box;50271987]Note that noone here is saying that illegal immigrants are a good thing to a country. Just the ones that are here do significantly more to the US than you do. The US doesn't have an illegal immigrant problem, it has a naturalization problem. The number of illegal immigrants coming into the Us is next to nil.
[editline]6th May 2016[/editline]
He's ignoring all the evidence given to him.[/QUOTE]
I have a genuine question
How do illegal immigrants pay more, or even taxes at all without getting busted? I could've sworn taxes utilized ID and shit
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50271983]He's not replying to you[/QUOTE]
And, might I ask, Where did I say it? I'm who he was talking to, so where the fuck did I say that?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50272008]Yes so they clearly are rapists and drug dealers right? Because a "Crime" is equal to "ANY CRIME", right?
You know where people get these conclusions? From research. But, you and everyone like you would throw research away to trust your guts because you're so much smarter than research.
Please don't do that.
[editline]6th May 2016[/editline]
Who the fuck said that though?
[B]literally no one[/B]
are you literally only capable of arguing with strawmen you create?[/QUOTE]
Are you for real dude
You just dropped a heaping straw man on me and the very next edit complain about other people straw manning you
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50272019]Are you for real dude
You just dropped a heaping straw man on me and the very next edit complain about other people straw manning you[/QUOTE]
You're the one having trouble discerning one crime from another in a study of their behavious and instead insisting your gut feeling is correct on the issue.
So no, I haven't strawmanned you, you laid out your confusion clearly, it's just that your confusion is explained away pretty easily.
There you go again
Edit:
You're either too heated to notice or you're blending my statement with someone else's
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50272035]There you go again[/QUOTE]
You said that they're criminals by virtue of being there. True. No one debates that. The debate is about their further crimes which they commit at a lower rate than citizens.
You find that outrageous and wrong based on nothing but your own preconceived notions.
Guess what?
You're wrong.
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50272015]I have a genuine question
How do illegal immigrants pay more, or even taxes at all without getting busted? I could've sworn taxes utilized ID and shit[/QUOTE]
I think there's a way of doing it without declaring it but ofc, I'm not familiar with the system because I'm not American
[url=http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-03-01/study-undocumented-immigrants-pay-billions-in-taxes]Study: 'Undocumented' Immigrants pay Billions in Taxes[/url]
Here's an article, doesn't go too in-depth but still
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50272015]I have a genuine question
How do illegal immigrants pay more, or even taxes at all without getting busted? I could've sworn taxes utilized ID and shit[/QUOTE]
Sales taxes don't require an ID, and the social security taxes they pay is insane: [url]https://www.ssa.gov/oact/NOTES/pdf_notes/note151.pdf[/url]
[editline]6th May 2016[/editline]
The less they actually pay taxes, the more suspicious the government gets of them.
[editline]6th May 2016[/editline]
Supposedly suspicious anyway, obviously not good enough because we have enough information to create a statistic.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50272057]You said that they're criminals by virtue of being there. True. No one debates that. The debate is about their further crimes which they commit at a lower rate than citizens.
You find that outrageous and wrong based on nothing but your own preconceived notions.
Guess what?
You're wrong.[/QUOTE]
Honestly, you're probably both right. I mean, every time an illegal person collects payment for working they're doing something illegal. Every time they get fake documents they're doing something illegal. Etc. Their entire life is based on a constant flow of illegal actions.
With that said, I don't think it's hard to believe that they don't do much theft, murder, etc.
[QUOTE=sgman91;50272071]Honestly, you're probably both right. I mean, every time an illegal person collects payment for working they're doing something illegal. Every time they get fake documents they're doing something illegal. Etc. Their entire life is based on a constant flow of illegal actions.
With that said, I don't think it's hard to believe that they don't do much theft, murder, etc.[/QUOTE]
A better way to word it is they commit much fewer felonies.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50272057]You said that they're criminals by virtue of being there. True. No one debates that. The debate is about their further crimes which they commit at a lower rate than citizens.
You find that outrageous and wrong based on nothing but your own preconceived notions.
Guess what?
You're wrong.[/QUOTE]
I find the notion that illegal immigrants commit less crime than legal Americans a tad silly not only because illegal immigrants are a minority by a large amount, but because Johnny Boy's spotless criminal history is less than someone who's group is made up of people that have definitively committed at least 1 crime to be in that group. But as was said you're likely not factoring the initial crime so this is basically a semantics argument and thus pointless
[editline]6th May 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Map in a box;50272081]A better way to word it is they commit much fewer felonies.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I've been getting the vibe that this is just poor wording
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50272091]I find the notion that illegal immigrants commit less crime than legal Americans a tad silly not only because illegal immigrants are a minority by a large amount, but because Johnny Boy's spotless criminal history is less than someone who's group is made up of people that have definitively committed 1 crime to be in that group. But as was said you're likely not factoring the initial crime so this is basically a semantics argument and thus pointless[/QUOTE]
Crimes resulting in capture.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;50272066]Sales taxes don't require an ID, and the social security taxes they pay is insane: [url]https://www.ssa.gov/oact/NOTES/pdf_notes/note151.pdf[/url]
[editline]6th May 2016[/editline]
The less they actually pay taxes, the more suspicious the government gets of them.
[editline]6th May 2016[/editline]
Supposedly suspicious anyway, obviously not good enough because we have enough information to create a statistic.[/QUOTE]
That's really something. I don't even get to [i]apply[/i] for a job without busting out the ID and SocSecurity. Though I wouldn't be surprised if they took the taxes as "protection money" to not take action about it. It'd be nice if they'd get them in a citizenship program though.
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50272091]I find the notion that illegal immigrants commit less crime than legal Americans a tad silly not only because illegal immigrants are a minority by a large amount, but because Johnny Boy's spotless criminal history is less than someone who's group is made up of people that have definitively committed 1 crime to be in that group. But as was said you're likely not factoring the initial crime so this is basically a semantics argument and thus pointless[/QUOTE]
It's not a semantics argument, dude. The whole discussion started because of the guy defending Trump's "they're bringing crime, they're rapists" statement, we're obviously not saying the act of illegally immigrating isn't a crime, I mean come on. The argument is about whether or not they're more likely to commit even [I]more crimes[/I]. Look at this in context, do you think Trump was talking about their legal working status, is that the kind of crime he was talking about? What kind of crimes is igamiwarr saying a higher percentage of illegals will commit to stay alive, are we still talking visas and IDs here?
[editline]6th May 2016[/editline]
If you wanna call it poor wording go ahead but I thought the whole thing was pretty clear already
I meant my portion was semantics
[editline]6th May 2016[/editline]
I'm sorry for the interruption
[QUOTE=jiggu;50271770]Do you eat it dry or something?[/QUOTE]
if you put ketchup on a hot dog you're going straight to hell there is no salvation
the correct way to eat a hot dog is with sauerkraut
[QUOTE=Novangel;50268517][img]http://i.imgur.com/tq1Alfq.png[/img]
ouch
[editline]7th May 2016[/editline]
How do you even fuck up that badly[/QUOTE]
What a dumb bitch, Cinco De Mayo isn't even celebrated or recognized as an holiday in Mexico.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;50272763]What a dumb bitch, Cinco De Mayo isn't even celebrated or recognized as an holiday in Mexico.[/QUOTE]
Whether or not it's really celebrated is beside the point. It originated in Mexico, it's not an all-encompassing hispanic event. Her wording could mean either, does not being specific really warrant calling her a dumb bitch?
[QUOTE=igamiwarr;50271859]Saying that is the one of the most naive stupid things that I have heard. Not every [B]illegal[/B] immigrant is a saint, you are just taking the complete opposite view rather than trying to find one that actually makes sense.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50271919][URL="http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mythical-connection-between-immigrants-and-crime-1436916798"]The Mythical Connection Between Immigrants and Crime:
Newcomers to the U.S. are less likely than the native population to commit violent crimes or be incarcerated.[/URL]
[URL="http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/special-reports/criminalization-immigration-united-states"]The Criminalization of Immigration in the United States[/URL]
[URL="https://psmag.com/illegal-immigration-might-actually-reduce-crime-rates-fd0a6ad0fd69#.x83hffi49"]Illegal Immigration Might Actually Reduce Crime Rates[/URL]
[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime"]Immigration and Crime (Wikipedia)[/URL][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50271942]Noticing that majority of these studies just say immigrants, when the person specified [B]illegals[/B].[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Smug Bastard;50271945]How the fuck does stating that the crime rates for illegal immigrants are lower than citizens constitute saying that every illegal is a saint? Do you seriously think it's intellectually honest in any way to outright put words in somebody's mouth like that in order to fit your narrative?
Here are some statistics for you.
[URL]https://www.chicagofed.org/digital_assets/publications/working_papers/2005/wp2005_19.pdf[/URL]
The preface alone says:
[editline].[/editline]
[B]Can you please either stop putting words in others' mouths or remove yourself from this discussion
[/B]
[editline].[/editline]
Don't think about trying to backpedal or that I didn't see that sneaky post edit.[/QUOTE]
Why are you guys posting articles about legal immigrants to dispute the claim that illegal immigrants contribute to crime?
I don't have a horse in this race but it strikes me as dishonest to pull that kind of bait-and-switch. With the US's immigration policies being what they are it wouldn't surprise me that most legal immigrants who come through the system are upstanding people with practicable skills. But that doesn't say anything one way or another about the people that hop a fence, and articles that address immigrant communities as a whole don't do that. According to [URL="http://www.gao.gov/assets/320/316959.pdf"]a GAO report[/URL], about 1 in 30 illegal immigrants was currently incarcerated as of 2010, a rate over four times higher than the general population (1 in 126 as of 2008), and mostly for crimes unrelated to immigration. If you have research indicating otherwise then I'd genuinely like to see it- there's a pretty big difference between 'immigrants bring crime' (which is pure xenophobia that you guys have properly debunked) versus '[I]illegal[/I] immigrants bring crime'.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50272801]Whether or not it's really celebrated is beside the point. It originated in Mexico, it's not an all-encompassing hispanic event. Her wording could mean either, does not being specific really warrant calling her a dumb bitch?[/QUOTE]
Except the celebration of Cinco De Mayo began in California; It's ignored in Mexico because they lost the war.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;50272763]What a dumb bitch, Cinco De Mayo isn't even celebrated or recognized as an holiday in Mexico.[/QUOTE]
Then does that mean that Trump is a double dumb bitch.
If you want to get technical, Cinco De Mayo isn't technically celebrated as Cinco De Mayo, but as Mexican Independence Day in September.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50272844]Then does that mean that Trump is a double dumb bitch.
If you want to get technical, Cinco De Mayo isn't technically celebrated as Cinco De Mayo, but as Mexican Independence Day in September.[/QUOTE]
Cinco De Mayo is literally Spanish for "5th of May", and has nothing to do with Mexican independence, it celebrates Mexico ending France's 50 year winning streak at the Battle of Puebla during the French Intervention in Mexico which ultimately ended with Mexico City occupied by the French.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;50272854]Cinco De Mayo is literally Spanish for "5th of May"[/QUOTE]
ok so how is that relevant to what I said
Cinco De Mayo isn't celebrated in Mexico. The battle that Cinco De Mayo celebrates is celebrated in Mexico as part of Mexico's Independence day.
[quote]It's not Mexico's Independence Day: Cinco de Mayo commemorates the triumph of the Mexican army at the Battle of Puebla on May 5, 1862. This victory occurred over 50 years after Mexico's Independence Day, which is celebrated on September 16.[/quote]
[url]http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/no-cinco-de-mayo-not-mexican-independence-day-here-s-n567041[/url]
She's hardly dumb, and she's most definitely not a bitch.
[QUOTE=catbarf;50272829]Why are you guys posting articles about legal immigrants to dispute the claim that illegal immigrants contribute to crime?
I don't have a horse in this race but it strikes me as dishonest to pull that kind of bait-and-switch. With the US's immigration policies being what they are it wouldn't surprise me that most legal immigrants who come through the system are upstanding people with practicable skills. But that doesn't say anything one way or another about the people that hop a fence, and articles that address immigrant communities as a whole don't do that. According to [URL="http://www.gao.gov/assets/320/316959.pdf"]a GAO report[/URL], about 1 in 30 illegal immigrants was currently incarcerated as of 2010, a rate over four times higher than the general population (1 in 126 as of 2008), and mostly for crimes unrelated to immigration. If you have research indicating otherwise then I'd genuinely like to see it- there's a pretty big difference between 'immigrants bring crime' (which is pure xenophobia that you guys have properly debunked) versus '[I]illegal[/I] immigrants bring crime'.[/QUOTE]
Because intentionally blurring the lines between legality of immigrants is the only way to turn discussions about the realities of illegal immigration into arguments about who's racist.
When Trump says:
[quote]When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people[/quote]
The only way to deflect attention from the points about [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/06/world/americas/a-mexican-manual-for-illegal-migrants-upsets-some-in-us.html"]the Mexican government making guides on crossing the border illegally,[/URL] the fact that [URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/tracing-the-us-heroin-surge-back-south-of-the-border-as-mexican-cannabis-output-falls/2014/04/06/58dfc590-2123-4cc6-b664-1e5948960576_story.html"]90% of heroin in the US is brought by traffickers,[/URL] and that [URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/12/central-america-migrants-rape_n_5806972.html"]80% of the women and girls crossing the border are raped along the way,[/URL] is to act like it's a personal attack on every legal Mexican immigrant.
I'm not saying people ITT posting stats about legal immigrants are trying to be intellectually dishonest, but that they have at the least fallen for the media race-baiting narrative hook, line and sinker.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50272880]ok so how is that relevant to what I said
Cinco De Mayo isn't celebrated in Mexico. The battle that Cinco De Mayo celebrates is celebrated in Mexico as part of Mexico's Independence day.
[url]http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/no-cinco-de-mayo-not-mexican-independence-day-here-s-n567041[/url]
She's hardly dumb, and she's most definitely not a bitch.[/QUOTE]
But Mexico lost the war and was occupied by France after the Battle of Pueblo so it has nothing to do with Independence; It's not recognized by the Government of Mexico as an holiday; It's only celebrated in the State of Veracruz and State of Puebla which represents a very small part of Mexico.
Actual Mexicans don't give a fuck about it.
Beyond that it only became this widely celebrated thing due to the Chicano movement in California.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;50272763]What a dumb bitch, Cinco De Mayo isn't even celebrated or recognized as an holiday in Mexico.[/QUOTE]
it's not a national holiday but all schools in mexico are closed on that day and is an official holiday in both puebla and veracruz
[QUOTE=butre;50273032]it's not a national holiday but all schools in mexico are closed on that day and is an official holiday in both puebla and veracruz[/QUOTE]
Two very small states in Mexico.
I've been to Mexico and talked to actual Mexicans, nobody cares about Cinco De Mayo; It's been mostly appropriated by white people like "Mexican" food.
[QUOTE=catbarf;50272829]Why are you guys posting articles about legal immigrants to dispute the claim that illegal immigrants contribute to crime?
I don't have a horse in this race but it strikes me as dishonest to pull that kind of bait-and-switch. With the US's immigration policies being what they are it wouldn't surprise me that most legal immigrants who come through the system are upstanding people with practicable skills. But that doesn't say anything one way or another about the people that hop a fence, and articles that address immigrant communities as a whole don't do that. According to [URL="http://www.gao.gov/assets/320/316959.pdf"]a GAO report[/URL], about 1 in 30 illegal immigrants was currently incarcerated as of 2010, a rate over four times higher than the general population (1 in 126 as of 2008), and mostly for crimes unrelated to immigration. If you have research indicating otherwise then I'd genuinely like to see it- there's a pretty big difference between 'immigrants bring crime' (which is pure xenophobia that you guys have properly debunked) versus '[I]illegal[/I] immigrants bring crime'.[/QUOTE]
Those are immigrants in prison, not crimes committed. Although I agree with you with the bait-and-switch; if you're going to contribute don't pull irrelevant sources.
[url]http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/07/16/voices-gomez-undocumented-immigrant-crime-san-francisco-shooting/30159479/[/url]
(oh god don't read the comments they're so toxic oh my god.)
[QUOTE=Broseph_;50273078]Two very small states in Mexico.
I've been to Mexico and talked to actual Mexicans, nobody cares about Cinco De Mayo; It's been mostly appropriated by white people like "Mexican" food.[/QUOTE]
it seems to largely be considered an american mexican holiday to be enjoyed by american mexicans and latino's in general.
but I guess calling someone a dumb bitch for insulting El Trumpo is warranted in your books.
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