Missouri KKK Threaten Use of Lethal Force Against Ferguson Protestors - Polidicks

[QUOTE=sgman91;46491417]It only looks like that on the surface if you embrace ignorance and assume guilt. Assuming that a guy is guilty because of his skin color is never justified.[/QUOTE] assuming guilt is the way it goes for every televised judicial case, whether it's casey anthony, george zimmerman, or O.J. simpson. whether any of them were actually guilty of the crime is irrelevant; the public makes its verdict as a natural consequence of being composed of opinionated human beings. the ignorance that you point out is not unique to this case or even racial cases in general.

[QUOTE=joes33431;46491460]assuming guilt is the way it goes for every televised judicial case, whether it's casey anthony, george zimmerman, or O.J. simpson. whether any of them were actually guilty of the crime is irrelevant; the public makes its verdict as a natural consequence of being composed of opinionated human beings. the ignorance that you point out is not unique to this case or even racial cases in general.[/QUOTE] I agree it's not unique in the slightest, but that doesn't make it suddenly acceptable. The key difference here is that the assumption of guilt comes from the color of the guys skin. Like I said earlier, if a white cop had shot and killed a white man there wouldn't have been riots, there wouldn't have been protests, and there wouldn't be any tension about the verdict. If anyone riots after the verdict it's because they're racist. They assume guilt on white people because of them being white. They don't care about truth.

[QUOTE=sgman91;46491496]I agree it's not unique in the slightest, but that doesn't make it suddenly acceptable. The key difference here is that the assumption of guilt comes from the color of the guys skin. Like I said earlier, if a white cop had shot and killed a white man there wouldn't have been riots, there wouldn't have been protests, and there wouldn't be any tension about the verdict. If anyone riots after the verdict it's because they're racist. They assume guilt on white people because of them being white. They don't care about truth.[/QUOTE] Are you legitimately completely unaware of the sociopolitical history of black subjugation in the United States of America, or do you just choose to ignore it? Because, as it turns out, that's a pretty major factor in this case, and the primary reason why we wouldn't see a similar response from a white-on-white crime.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;46491517]Are you legitimately completely unaware of the sociopolitical history of black subjugation in the United States of America, or do you just choose to ignore it?[/QUOTE] I don't try and justify racism on the basis of massive generalization of historical events. Those officers are not equivalent to racists of the past in any way but their skin color, and to say that they should be thought of as such is nothing but racist.

[QUOTE=sgman91;46491527]I don't try and justify racism on the basis of massive generalization of historical events.[/QUOTE] Choose to ignore it then. Noted.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;46490655]In what possible sense?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Big Dumb American;46490117]That you would have the gall to claim that they aren't in this because of racial reasons is laughable.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Bruhmis;46490009]there's probably quite a lot of proof that they're still a hate organization and that most of their members are racist[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=sgman91;46491527]Those officers are not equivalent to racists of the past in any way but their skin color, and to say that they should be thought of as such is nothing but racist.[/QUOTE] But this isn't an issue of the past. That's the entire point. Racism is alive and well. It is an ongoing problem that minorities in this country still fight against every day.

[QUOTE=sgman91;46491527]I don't try and justify racism on the basis of massive generalization of historical events. Those officers are not equivalent to racists of the past in any way but their skin color, and to say that they should be thought of as such is nothing but racist.[/QUOTE] way to read something completely different to what bda said. as has been said before, the dude getting shot is not the most important part of this, it was just the catalyst

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;46491250]That's a bit more accurate.[/QUOTE] *sigh* Thats not right at all. Hardly accurate. If we had a real problem in this country people would be protesting on the streets than just posting to CopBlock. This whole "cops are bad people"/ "the only good cop is a dead one" shit is almost entirely exclusive to the internet.

[QUOTE=sgman91;46491496]I agree it's not unique in the slightest, but that doesn't make it suddenly acceptable. The key difference here is that the assumption of guilt comes from the color of the guys skin. Like I said earlier, if a white cop had shot and killed a white man there wouldn't have been riots, there wouldn't have been protests, and there wouldn't be any tension about the verdict. If anyone riots after the verdict it's because they're racist. They assume guilt on white people because of them being white. They don't care about truth.[/QUOTE] the reason that the police have such strained relations with the black community is the result of the use of the police as an instrument of oppression from the civil rights movement backward, and the racial profiling and abuse that went into "tough-on-crime" programs through the 80's to today. in cities such as new york, police departments decided to fight the war on drugs by targeting the black community instead of working with it, and now they're paying for it in failed public relations and backlash in cities like ferguson. when events like these come up, it isn't directly about the individual people involved so much as it is the things that the events represent; discrimination, militarization, disproportionate representation in arrests and convictions, police working against the black community instead of with it, and the use of police force to silence an egalitarian political agenda. the people of ferguson first responded with peaceful protests, and the ferguson police department used the worst possible response when idiots hijacked the protests for their own gain: riot control, powerful gear, that kind of thing. do i understand why the department might have used those methods? sure. but they made the problem worse when they started breaking out the big guns. it is an "us v.s. them" mentality that drives conflicts like this; it requires a concerted effort to rebuild shattered relations and provide outreach, along with an end to the militarization and mass incarceration that has for years been marginalizing the black community. the difference is that we can't legislate what black people think; we can, however, legislate the behaviors of employees of police departments. and while those things are viable solutions and things that mitigate the problem, calling people racist for having and expressing opinions on an event that touches upon deeper social and political issues is not.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;46491585]way to read something completely different to what bda said. as has been said before, the dude getting shot is not the most important part of this, it was just the catalyst[/QUOTE] If riots occurre after the verdict (notice that these have been my point the entire time) it will solely be about the guy getting shot and nothing else.

[QUOTE=sgman91;46491417]Please show me intent in keeping black people out of the police force instead of assuming racist intentions because they're white. Based on everything I've read they have an extremely difficult time recruiting black people in that area.[/QUOTE] it's never about intent, that's why it's such a prevalent issue. the deal is that black people are underrepresented by the St Louis government and whether that's cos of anyone intentionally being racist or not is irrelevant, cos it still stands just the same that the people who are and feel that they're underrepresented aren't white. this is an issue with race whether anyone in St Louis wants it to be or not

[QUOTE=Cone;46491608]it's never about intent, that's why it's such a prevalent issue. the deal is that black people are underrepresented by the St Louis government and whether that's cos of anyone intentionally being racist or not is irrelevant, cos it still stands just the same that the people who are and feel that they're underrepresented aren't white. this is an issue with race whether anyone in St Louis wants it to be or not[/QUOTE] It isn't an issue with the police department if there aren't many willing black people for the job who also meet requirements. It may be an issue with the education department, but it has nothing to do with the police. For the people to make it an issue with the department is to assume racist intentions on the people doing the hiring. You know how you fix that problem as a black person? You go join the police force. Once you show that tons of black people who meet requirements are being turned away you start making accusations of racism. [editline]14th November 2014[/editline] I don't buy all the talk about racism being a common problem from police. The most conservative black people I know are those who became a cop, even if they started out ridiculously liberal because they got tired of their coworkers being accused of racist that they never saw.

[QUOTE=sgman91;46491630]It isn't an issue with the police department if there aren't many willing black people for the job who also meet requirements. It may be an issue with the education department, but it has nothing to do with the police. For the people to make it an issue with the department is to assume racist intentions on the people doing the hiring. You know how you fix that problem as a black person? You go join the police force. Once you show that tons of black people who meet requirements are being turned away you start making accusations of racism. [editline]14th November 2014[/editline] I don't buy all the talk about racism being a common problem from police. The most conservative black people I know are those who became a cop, even if they started out ridiculously liberal.[/QUOTE] you're right, the problem may not at all be racism in the selection/employment process, but the reason that police departments have a hard time attracting black employees has to do with the fact that the police has, for the past 3 decades, made itself an enemy of the black community with the war on drugs, and has in the past been used as an instrument of the legal subjugation of blacks in the united states. regardless of whether or not the police as individuals are racist, police departments have used racial profiling in arrests and disproportionately incarcerated black people. in another sense, a lack of black employees there to begin with is generally a deterrent, due to the fact that it's difficult to integrate into a workplace inhabited by people with which you might not have anything culturally or politically in common. blacks might also have the assumption that the department might not be friendly to their presence (again, us vs them, as i mentioned in my previous post).

[QUOTE=joes33431;46491703]you're right, the problem may not at all be racism in the selection/employment process, but the reason that police departments have a hard time attracting black employees has to do with the fact that the police has, for the past 3 decades, made itself an enemy of the black community with the war on drugs, and has in the past been used as an instrument of the legal subjugation of blacks in the united states. regardless of whether or not the police as individuals are racist, police departments have used racial profiling in arrests and disproportionately incarcerated black people. in another sense, a lack of black employees there to begin with is generally a deterrent, due to the fact that it's difficult to integrate into a workplace inhabited by people with which you might not have anything culturally or politically in common. blacks might also have the assumption that the department might not be friendly to their presence (again, us vs them, as i mentioned in my previous post).[/QUOTE] Do you actually have evidence for the claim that previous racism is the major reason that black people don't join the police force? I know I've certainly never seen any. New York has one of the most diverse forces in the nation and is constantly accused of racist tactics like stop and frisk.

[QUOTE=snapshot32;46489704]So in your mind calling on the KKK is a perfectly reasonable reaction from the white community? are you being fucking serious right now, guy?[/QUOTE] He's either trolling or has serious brain damage. [editline]14th November 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=sgman91;46491724]Do you actually have evidence for the claim that previous racism is the major reason that black people don't join the police force? I know I've certainly never seen any. New York has one of the most diverse forces in the nation and is constantly accused of racist tactics like stop and frisk.[/QUOTE] Stop and frisk was real there's been plenty of cases of police officers pulling black people over and frisking them but a white person of the same age wouldn't be stopped and frisked.

[QUOTE=sgman91;46491724]Do you actually have evidence for the claim that previous racism is the major reason that black people don't join the police force? I know I've certainly never seen any.[/quote] [url]http://www.gallup.com/poll/175088/gallup-review-black-white-attitudes-toward-police.aspx[/url] you are less likely to join a force that you do not trust, i would imagine. [quote]New York has one of the most diverse forces in the nation and is constantly accused of racist tactics like stop and frisk.[/QUOTE] not for black people it doesn't. [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/27/nyregion/more-diversity-in-new-york-citys-police-but-blacks-lag.html?pagewanted=all[/url] [QUOTE]In 2003, 18 percent of the Police Academy’s 2,108 graduates were black. Of the 1,247 recruits who started the academy this summer and will graduate on Friday, blacks make up about 10 percent, according to the department. By contrast, the percentage of Hispanic recruits has remained around 25 percent from 2003 till now, and the percentage of white non-Hispanic recruits has actually risen in recent years, to 57 percent from 52 percent in 2003. There are many possible explanations for the decline, including demographic shifts in the city’s black population, a rise in the number of new immigrant applicants and possibly the highly publicized reduction of officers’ starting salary midway through the decade. (It was since raised to a base pay of about $42,000.) The Police Department’s aggressive stop-and-frisk tactics may have played a role as well. As the percentage of black recruits to the Police Academy zigzagged downward over the last decade, the number of recorded street stops, mostly in minority neighborhoods, rose higher, sowing distrust of the police.[/QUOTE] meanwhile, [URL="http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk"]25% of new york city is african-american[/URL], so they're obviously still disproportionately represented.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;46491592]*sigh* Thats not right at all. Hardly accurate. If we had a real problem in this country people would be protesting on the streets than just posting to CopBlock. This whole "cops are bad people"/ "the only good cop is a dead one" shit is almost entirely exclusive to the internet.[/QUOTE] But people are protesting in the streets. Did you forget you're in a thread about Ferguson? I'm just saying that it's not just "black people vs the cops". There are a lot more people involved than people seem to realize and it is far from entirely a race issue. It's an issue with police brutality, it's an issue with transparency, it's an issue with our entire justice system as well as an issue to do with race and poverty. In any case I'm not one to say that all cops are bad people or deserve to die, that's a little fucked up, but I fail to see how you can honestly believe there isn't a problem. Is there a set number of cities that have to be under martial law before we declare there is a problem?

[QUOTE=joes33431;46491703]you're right, the problem may not at all be racism in the selection/employment process, but the reason that police departments have a hard time attracting black employees has to do with the fact that the police has, for the past 3 decades, made itself an enemy of the black community with the war on drugs, and has in the past been used as an instrument of the legal subjugation of blacks in the united states. regardless of whether or not the police as individuals are racist, police departments have used racial profiling in arrests and disproportionately incarcerated black people.[/QUOTE] yes and the fact that black people commit more crimes is irrelevant victimization surveys show that the higher rate of black incarceration has nothing to do with police bias

[QUOTE=sgman91;46491724]Do you actually have evidence for the claim that previous racism is the major reason that black people don't join the police force? I know I've certainly never seen any. New York has one of the most diverse forces in the nation and is constantly accused of racist tactics like stop and frisk.[/QUOTE] As a black person actually living in New York, I can account for times I've had (black) friends pulled over despite doing nothing at all that would hint that they had committed some crime, and then continually being interrogated aggressively as though they were guilty of [I]something[/I]. When you see this treatment over and over, not only does it make you uncomfortable, it discourages you from being apart of a force that sees you as guilty until proven innocent. [QUOTE=kurgan;46492004]yes and the fact that black people commit more crimes is irrelevant victimization surveys show that the higher rate of black incarceration has nothing to do with police bias[/QUOTE] Higher crime rates go hand in hand with low-income communities, many of which are populated by minorities as a result of discrimination in the job market and education over the past few decades. The police force have a larger presence in these neighborhoods, of course incarceration rates are going to be skewed. [URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/17/racial-disparity-drug-use_n_3941346.html"]As an example[/URL] [QUOTE]Nearly 20 percent of whites have used cocaine, compared with 10 percent of blacks and Latinos, according to a 2011 survey from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration -- the most recent data available. Higher percentages of whites have also tried hallucinogens, marijuana, pain relievers like OxyContin, and stimulants like methamphetamine, according to the survey. Crack is more popular among blacks than whites, but not by much. Still, blacks are arrested for drug possession more than three times as often as whites, according to a 2009 report from the advocacy group Human Rights Watch. Of the 225,242 people who were serving time in state prisons for drug offenses in 2011, blacks made up 45 percent and whites comprised just 30 percent, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics. Jamie Fellner, author of the Human Rights Watch report, offered an explanation for this discrepancy. "The race issue isn't just that the judge is going, 'Oh, black man, I'm gonna sentence you higher,'" she said. "The police go into low-income minority neighborhoods and that's where they make most of their drug arrests. If they arrest you, now you have a 'prior,' so if you plead or get arrested again, you're gonna have a higher sentence. There's a kind of cumulative effect."[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=kurgan;46492004]yes and the fact that black people commit more crimes is irrelevant victimization surveys show that the higher rate of black incarceration has nothing to do with police bias[/QUOTE] feel free to post those surveys.

[QUOTE=joes33431;46491829][url]http://www.gallup.com/poll/175088/gallup-review-black-white-attitudes-toward-police.aspx[/url] you are less likely to join a force that you do not trust, i would imagine. not for black people it doesn't. [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/27/nyregion/more-diversity-in-new-york-citys-police-but-blacks-lag.html?pagewanted=all[/url] meanwhile, [URL="http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk"]25% of new york city is african-american[/URL], so they're obviously still disproportionately represented.[/QUOTE] Sgman91's much-used argumentative tactic of demanding obscure physical evidence when he runs out of ideas on how to further his own position with solid reasoning, and cannot come up with proper rebuttals to other peoples' points, backfires when somebody actually manages to pull hard numbers that strongly support their own position. Naturally, he disappears.

[QUOTE=Suzune;46492114]Higher crime rates go hand in hand with low-income communities, many of which are populated by minorities as a result of discrimination in the job market and education over the past few decades. [/quote] the relation between income and crime craters once you control for race though it's a transparently stupid argument really - yes, acquisitive crimes like robbery or fraud obviously rise with poverty, but the connection with murder and rape is much more dubious. impoverished appalachia has its share of that kind of petty crime, but its violent crime rate is half the national average. [quote]Jamie Fellner, author of the Human Rights Watch report, offered an explanation for this discrepancy. "The race issue isn't just that the judge is going, 'Oh, black man, I'm gonna sentence you higher,'" she said. "The police go into low-income minority neighborhoods and that's where they make most of their drug arrests. If they arrest you, now you have a 'prior,' so if you plead or get arrested again, you're gonna have a higher sentence. There's a kind of cumulative effect."[/quote] there's a sleight of hand going on here. the first set of statistics deal with [I]use[/I] of drugs, while the second set deal with [I]possession[/I] of drugs. the statistics do not actually directly support the stated conclusion: who is more likely, at any given time, to be in possession of drugs - a customer, or a dealer? and is a dealer more likely to be black, or white? furthermore, the ratio of blacks to whites in drug-related emergency room visits is [I]lower[/I] than the ratio of black to white drug arrests. this is the opposite of what would be the case, if police were truly disproportionately arresting black drug users. [img]http://i.imgur.com/dYoTfku.jpg[/img] [url=https://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=711164]source (page 266)[/url]

[QUOTE=kurgan;46492004]yes and the fact that black people commit more crimes is irrelevant victimization surveys show that the higher rate of black incarceration has nothing to do with police bias[/QUOTE] I truly hate when people pull statistics on black crime without understanding what they really represent. Yes, black people commit considerably more crimes in the United States than white people. However, consider the fact that the crime rates between black people and those living in poverty, regardless of race, are nearly identical. Top that off with the fact that black people have the highest poverty rate in this country, and it becomes clear that income, not race is most important factor in criminal rates. And finally, the reason why black people have the highest poverty rates, and thus crime rates, [I]especially[/I] in Saint Louis? Racism. White Flight. As black people started moving into urban areas, following the civil rights campaigns of Martin Luther King Jr and the gang, white people came to the realization that they could no longer legally segregate black people from their neighborhoods. However, that did not end the racism. While they couldn't keep black people out, there was nothing saying that the white people had to stay. Black families started moving in, white families who didn't want to live near them started pulling up stakes and fleeing for the suburbs, taking their money and businesses with them. Property values plummeted, and at each fall in value, more black families moved in, continuing to seek the opportunities, securities, and community that urban living promised. Soon even the non-racist white people had to leave, simply because staying meant financial ruin. However, the black families that had moved to these areas were essentially trapped. They'd spent everything getting there, and could not afford to move elsewhere. No businesses, tanked property values, and fresh, deeply seeded institutional racism led to extreme poverty, which inevitably led to crime and gangs. This is how American ghettos were created. Not by black people, but as a direct result of mass anti-black racism. This is why black crime statistics are so high. This is why black people still feel angry and disenfranchised. This didn't have a lifetime ago. This was barely a generation ago. My father grew up in this time-- grew up in a neighborhood deeply affected by this, actually. People criticizing "black culture" as being one of crime and violence need to understand the simple, but damning history that led to that. Saint Louis is one of the most succinct examples of this in action; over half of our city is financially dead no-man's-land, with miles of abandoned buildings and boarded up projects. This is what is behind the outrage in Ferguson. Not Michael Brown and Darrel Wilson. [url]http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity[/url] [url]http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/badcomm.htm[/url] [url]http://www.statepress.com/2014/08/24/poor-racial-relations-in-st-louis-suburbs-have-origin-in-white-flight/[/url]

[QUOTE=sgman91;46491597]If riots occurre after the verdict (notice that these have been my point the entire time) it will solely be about the guy getting shot and nothing else.[/QUOTE] ok cool but your point is an extremely narrowminded way of looking at this issue

[QUOTE=joes33431;46492263]feel free to post those surveys.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cvus06.pdf[/url] ctrl-f "race of offenders" [editline]15th November 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Big Dumb American;46492478]I truly hate when people pull statistics on black crime without understanding what they really represent. Yes, black people commit considerably more crimes in the United States than white people. [B]However, consider the fact that the crime rates between black people and those living in poverty, regardless of race, are nearly identical.[/B] Top that off with the fact that black people have the highest poverty rate in this country, and it becomes clear that income, not race is most important factor in criminal rates.[/QUOTE] this is meaningless. if you take a bunch of people of the same incomes but different races, the blacks will still commit more crimes (and especially more violent crimes) than the whites. as for white flight, your causation is backwards. whites flee black crime. (and i could have sworn that one of the narratives being pushed was that ferguson was due to the opposite of white flight - gentrification.)

[QUOTE=AJ10017;46489741]No im saying the community has no reason to protest if he is innocent. Unless they take it to a higher court, then the case is over with, and no amount of protesting will fix anything. All it will do is cause [i]more[/i] trouble. Business owners in ferguson have started boarding up their windows because they already know whats going to happen when the ruling is released.[/QUOTE] Or maybe black people are protesting because of how frequently black dudes are profiled, and shot by police. But I guess you wouldn't consider that because you live in a magical town where every black person is a caricature that complains about white people and have shrines of Tupac and Biggie in their homes.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46492590]Or maybe black people are protesting because of how frequently black dudes are profiled, and shot by police. [/QUOTE] not much. [img]http://chicago.straightdope.com/images/JHBLEOS%20by%20race%20%28numbers%29.PNG[/img] [url]http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3180/what-s-the-racial-breakdown-of-people-killed-by-cops[/url] [quote]One thing jumps out when you start browsing: the number of justifiable homicides by law enforcement officers (hereinafter JHBLEOs) has been surprisingly steady over the years, fluctuating between 300 and 462. There were spikes around 1980 and again in the early 1990s, possibly reflecting jumps in violent crime in those years. Then again, we seem to be in a mini-spike now (there were 426 JHBLEOs in 2012), even though violent crime has dropped. Another striking phenomenon is the massive drop in the percentage of black people among those killed by cops. From 1976 to 1980, exactly half of JHBLEO victims (967 of 1,934) were black. The trend since then has been down. For the most recent five years available, 2008-2012, it’s about 30 percent.[/quote] if blacks are more likely to commit violent crimes then they're more likely to get shot. open and shut case.

[QUOTE=kurgan;46492349]the relation between income and crime craters once you control for race though it's a transparently stupid argument really - yes, acquisitive crimes like robbery or fraud obviously rise with poverty, but the connection with murder and rape is much more dubious. impoverished appalachia has its share of that kind of petty crime, but its violent crime rate is half the national average. [/QUOTE] Once again, crimes like murder and rape, like any other crime, are still influenced by income. When you look at the majority of poverty stricken communities in the United States, what racial group is the most prevalent? Blacks. Go and look at the disparity of incomes between blacks and whites, and you'll see the connection. It's due to this you see a higher crime rate from this group. On the subject of drugs, the pursuit is done in low-income neighborhoods more often, and in the case of murder, the crime is much more likely to occur in a low-income neighborhood. As I said earlier, the disparity in income spawns from this nation's history of race relations. It's exactly the reason why communities like Ferguson are so upset: living in a society where they're placed at a disadvantage, another injustice takes place right in front of them and it's only natural it would lead to protest. [QUOTE]there's a sleight of hand going on here. the first set of statistics deal with [I]use[/I] of drugs, while the second set deal with [I]possession[/I] of drugs. the statistics do not actually directly support the stated conclusion: who is more likely, at any given time, to be in possession of drugs - a customer, or a dealer? and is a dealer more likely to be black, or white? furthermore, the ratio of blacks to whites in drug-related emergency room visits is [I]lower[/I] than the ratio of black to white drug arrests. this is the opposite of what would be the case, if police were truly disproportionately arresting black drug users.[/QUOTE] If illegal drug use is larger among the white population than it is in the black population, shouldn't that alone tell you that something is wrong if more blacks are being arrested for it? Regardless if you claim that you're more likely to find a black dealer, it doesn't change the fact the more whites have still consumed more illegal drugs and aren't being pursued to the extent blacks are. [QUOTE]this is meaningless. if you take a bunch of people of the same incomes but different races, the blacks will still commit more crimes (and especially more violent crimes) than the whites. [/QUOTE] If only a sandbox world like this actually existed. If you take two people of different races, give them an equal income, and place them in a nice neighborhood, why exactly do you think the black person would commit more crimes? There isn't a natural urge to commit crimes among blacks, it's that they (and anyone of any race) are influenced by the community they grow up in. [QUOTE]as for white flight, your causation is backwards. whites flee black crime.[/QUOTE] White flight was prominent during a time when people didn't want to be around blacks [U]simply for the fact that they were black[/U], not because they thought blacks were going to destroy their neighborhoods through crime.

and in any case, the chances of you being shot by a police officer is less than 0.000x% I think its something like 0.00024% when averaged for a year