Duterte rated 'very good' in first 90 days: Philippines poll - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;51161998]It's astounding how many of the posters on this thread seemed to have skipped [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1536846&p=51160271&viewfull=1#post51160271"]Rainboo's post[/URL], a page ago. Insight from a local is precisely what we need in these cases. Perpetuating lies and FUD shows that you don't really care about what's going on.[/QUOTE] exactly. It's not that they don't "care" about. It's that they believe the notion put forward by most media outlets.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;51161545]You're acting like I support Duterte and think he's a good guy. I don't.[/QUOTE] It's hard to get that impression after reading this post [QUOTE=King Tiger;51160791] Duterte is part of a new nationalism in the Philippines, which has no place in a neoliberal world. He wants to put his own nation first rather than subordinate it to the world corporate system and, because of this, he has to be discredited.[/QUOTE] What even is a "neoliberal world".

[QUOTE=Rainboo;51160271]Duterte's ridiculous hitler statement aside, he DOES support medical marijuana. The targets for drug raids are generally those who use "shabu" or crystal meth. u wont get shot for smoking weed [editline] asd [/editline] i just wonder where u guys are getting that information about people getting killed in the streets for marijuana when we refer to "drugs" as a problem here it's usually specifically in reference to shit like crystal meth and when we refer to drug addicts it's not about those bunch of college students smoking weed and chilling in their places but those actual addicts who get their families into serious debt because of drug dealing(sometimes resulting in them being chased down to death by loan sharks/hired guns), those who are excessively violent due to their lifestyle i.e beating up their wives and so on and actually commit murder related to drug deals. had a bunch of them in my hometown before. really troublesome bunch. if it matters one of those people in my town was my relative and while my family financially supported his family for a while, he kept dealing with meth and beating up his wife and kids so he had to be sent to rehab for a year or two then his parents got him involved in a bunch of community projects afterwards. after that, he became a drug dealer again for quite some time despite already receiving adequate financial support from a bunch of relatives. he was even invited to move to canada to get a proper job but he rejected all of his parents' attempts and kept doing drug deals. it got to the point where they had to force him to surrender to the cops to be safe in prison because his drug amigos were after his life for some reason irdk [url]http://alcoholrehab.com/drug-addiction/crystal-meth-in-the-philippines-shabu/[/url] [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ0I7HyZNiI[/media][/QUOTE] even with meth and heroine and shit i [I]seriously[/I] doubt killing them would make things any better. hell, throwing them in prison probably wouldn't work, either.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;51159709]Nope, that's wrong. It's just a smear campaign. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2PFbhFMAmw[/media] [/QUOTE] Not to say that I know that Duterte is a Bad Guy or not, it is a genuinely complex situation, but my problems with this video are a total lack of citations and the assertion that the supposed extra-judicial killings didn't happen based purely on his word. Okay maybe the police wouldn't bother wrapping the bodies up in plastic but what about the bodies that weren't wrapped up? I can see Duterte's policies putting the squeeze on cartels and causing them to increase rates of violence but what do they have to gain from killing users and pushers and then putting signs on them? Another small but important detail: Am I the only one that disagrees with the conflation of drug pusher and drug user? I feel like being one is markedly "worse" than the other.

Killing people for using drugs, any type of drugs, no matter how bad things are, is deplorable. It doesn't fix the underlying causes that makes people get addicted to drugs in the first place. It's equivelent to trying to fix poverty by killing poor people. Fuck Duterte. I'm almost tempted to say that someone should shoot him and leave a sign by his body but I'd rather he get tried by the ICC for crimes against humanity.

[QUOTE=Rainboo;51160271]Duterte's ridiculous hitler statement aside, he DOES support medical marijuana. The targets for drug raids are generally those who use "shabu" or crystal meth. u wont get shot for smoking weed [editline] asd [/editline] i just wonder where u guys are getting that information about people getting killed in the streets for marijuana when we refer to "drugs" as a problem here it's usually specifically in reference to shit like crystal meth and when we refer to drug addicts it's not about those bunch of college students smoking weed and chilling in their places but those actual addicts who get their families into serious debt because of drug dealing(sometimes resulting in them being chased down to death by loan sharks/hired guns), those who are excessively violent due to their lifestyle i.e beating up their wives and so on and actually commit murder related to drug deals. had a bunch of them in my hometown before. really troublesome bunch. if it matters one of those people in my town was my relative and while my family financially supported his family for a while, he kept dealing with meth and beating up his wife and kids so he had to be sent to rehab for a year or two then his parents got him involved in a bunch of community projects afterwards. after that, he became a drug dealer again for quite some time despite already receiving adequate financial support from a bunch of relatives. he was even invited to move to canada to get a proper job but he rejected all of his parents' attempts and kept doing drug deals. it got to the point where they had to force him to surrender to the cops to be safe in prison because his drug amigos were after his life for some reason irdk [url]http://alcoholrehab.com/drug-addiction/crystal-meth-in-the-philippines-shabu/[/url] [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ0I7HyZNiI[/media][/QUOTE] Honestly, whether this applies to weed or not is irrelevant. [I]No[/I] drug is dangerous enough in and of itself to allow citizens to form roving murdersquads and to carry out streetside executions.

[QUOTE=UnknownDude;51162369]Killing people for using drugs, any type of drugs, no matter how bad things are, is deplorable. It doesn't fix the underlying causes that makes people get addicted to drugs in the first place. It's equivelent to trying to fix poverty by killing poor people. Fuck Duterte. I'm almost tempted to say that someone should shoot him and leave a sign by his body but I'd rather he get tried by the ICC for crimes against humanity.[/QUOTE] No, fuck it, let him die the same way his victims have. Letting him go to the ICC just gives the Russians and Chinese more time to muscle in. This incident must be ended with haste.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51162567]Honestly, whether this applies to weed or not is irrelevant. [I]No[/I] drug is dangerous enough in and of itself to allow citizens to form roving murdersquads and to carry out streetside executions.[/QUOTE] Yeah, drugs are never enough to carry out any murdersquad or executions, you're right. But think about it this way, the country is in poverty, the police has always been a joke and never been respected. The drug cartels have so much power and influence that they can literally buy the government. And the Philippines has a bad history of being corrupted. Plus you have a cheap drug that even the poorest of the population can afford. That doesn't really equate to a growing economy or lowering the poverty rate. And people are desperate to get any sort of work to get out of poverty. What Duterte's implementing is giving the police some sort of bite. It's unfortunate that it's gotten this violent and I don't think he is condoning any of it. I honestly don't think Duterte's dumb enough to condone vigilantes as cited in the video posted earlier. What else would the Philippines do? No one respects the rule of law and this doesn't even just apply to drugs, it just applies to most people there. The streets are a mess, you can literally pay off anyone to get out of a crime because there will be no repercussions. As a native-born Filipino that's moved to the U.S., I find it very hard to judge Duterte for trying, unlike previous presidents. The side effects might be violent but I hope to God that it would lead to a better Philippines.

When Duterte's gone, the problem will come back. You can't make these kinds of things driven by one mans will power because as soon as he's gone, everything collapses. You need to implement systematic changes and work to create a system that works, otherwise you're relying on the strength of men like Duterte.

i wonder how much charisma it would take for a leader to convince people to roam around being helpful to their community rather than roam around killing suspected druggies.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51162140]It's hard to get that impression after reading this post What even is a "neoliberal world".[/QUOTE] [url]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism[/url] Do you disagree that this is the dominant economic model that most nations (especially in the West) use currently? I thought you said you voted for Sanders in the Dem primaries.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;51160791][url=http://www.reuters.com/article/philippines-politics-philweb-idUSL3N1AL369]Philippine tycoon quits corporate post as Duterte vows to destroy "oligarchs"[/url] [editline]6th October 2016[/editline] Duterte is part of a new nationalism in the Philippines, which has no place in a neoliberal world. He wants to put his own nation first rather than subordinate it to the world corporate system and, because of this, he has to be discredited.[/QUOTE] Sounds like an argument right out of Tumblr. "People are criticizing you, therefore you must be in the right."

[QUOTE=Fourier;51160052]Nope, he doesn't want illegal users killed, he wants them to be handled by law. He ordered policemen to not use force (gun) unless absolutely necesary.[/QUOTE] I did not know this. This is great. [QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51160869]do you just "get over" everything you see that you feel is not right, as long as it's the law?[/QUOTE] No, I do what I can to get the laws changed to something I'm more comfortable with. I'm not a Filipino citizen though so it's not my place to question their laws. [QUOTE=lots of other people]walls of text[/QUOTE] [URL="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2797098/"]Smoking marijuana is addictive.[/URL] [URL="http://www.chanrobles.com/republicactno9165.html#1971 UN - REPUBLIC ACT NO. 9165"]Possession of and personal use of marijuana is illegal in the Philippines.[/URL][URL="http://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1513/AnnalsATS.201212-127FR"]Smoking marijuana critically injures the lungs. [/URL] [URL="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16832000"]I'm not saying it causes lung cancer, but here's an article about that too.[/URL] [editline]s[/editline] Should people be getting killed over drugs? Probably not. I'm not going to claim to understand the moral, ethical, and social norms of a foreign country though; this article at least makes it appear that Duterte's administration has the support of the people despite what I might think about their practices.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;51161545]You're acting like I support Duterte and think he's a good guy. I don't. I'm only trying to explain why many Filipinos might support him. So I don't need to "see the other side" because I'm already there.[/QUOTE] Explanation is simple, third worlders :smug:

[QUOTE=Chonch;51162770]I did not know this. This is great. No, I do what I can to get the laws changed to something I'm more comfortable with. I'm not a Filipino citizen though so it's not my place to question their laws. [URL="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2797098/"]Smoking marijuana is addictive.[/URL] [URL="http://www.chanrobles.com/republicactno9165.html#1971%20UN%20-%20REPUBLIC%20ACT%20NO.%209165"]Possession of and personal use of marijuana is illegal in the Philippines.[/URL][URL="http://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1513/AnnalsATS.201212-127FR"]Smoking marijuana critically injures the lungs. [/URL] [URL="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16832000"]I'm not saying it causes lung cancer, but here's an article about that too.[/URL][/QUOTE] Should I do the typical thing and post sources that state by and large the opposite of those sources and are just as valid?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51162782]Should I do the typical thing and post sources that state by and large the opposite of those sources and are just as valid?[/QUOTE] It might help. Then we could devolve into nitpicking over the way the studies were conducted rather than deal with the bigger question of why the law is going anywhere near this issue with scientific consensus up in the air. [editline]f[/editline] To remain on topic, I would rate Duterte "very good" because he looks "very good" for his age, yes.

[QUOTE=Chonch;51162770][URL="http://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1513/AnnalsATS.201212-127FR"]Smoking marijuana critically injures the lungs. [/URL][/QUOTE] Did you read the abstract to this? "Regular smoking of marijuana by itself causes visible and microscopic injury to the large airways that is consistently associated with an increased likelihood of symptoms of chronic bronchitis that subside after cessation of use. On the other hand, habitual use of marijuana alone does not appear to lead to significant abnormalities in lung function when assessed either cross-sectionally or longitudinally, except for possible increases in lung volumes and modest increases in airway resistance of unclear clinical significance." That sure doesn't say "smoking critically injures" or "kills" (as you put it) the lungs. Yes some damage is expected, that's what smoking literally anything does to your lungs. It's all about moderation. And what about using a vape to ingest? Edibles? You could be a stoner your whole life without smoking once if you chose.

[QUOTE=Chonch;51162770]No, I do what I can to get the laws changed to something I'm more comfortable with.[/quote] next time you feel that way you should probably just follow your own advice and get over it [quote]I'm not a Filipino citizen though so it's not my place to question their laws.[/QUOTE] what a close-minded mentality. ridiculous