• Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI
    821 replies, posted
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;21294748]Circular logic. You believe in something that can't be proven to exist, yet you still believe in it, and the reason you believe in it is because it can't be disproven? This could be said for anything, I could say there is an invisible undetectable ninja directly behind you watching you at all time, would you believe it? No. I thought God was supposed to be all loving, why does he let people suffer the way they do? It's not like Christians made God to seem apathetic, in which case I might agree with you slightly more. Anyone feel like the second coming of Christ is just a two thousand year old cliff hanger?[/QUOTE] Who said I believe either way? This isn't about believing in a god, this is about proving or disproving god. I'm arguing you cannot prove it either way.
[QUOTE=petieng;21294819]Who said I believe either way? This isn't about believing in a god, this is about proving or disproving god. I'm arguing you cannot prove it either way.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;21294813]The law system works something like this: Innocent until proven guilty. If you can't prove it, there's no reason to believe it.[/QUOTE] When someone tells you something incredible, you ask for proof. If they have zero proof, especially if what they claim is gigantic, you probably wouldn't believe it. Why is this any different? No, you can't disprove God, but you shouldn't believe in it.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;21294806]What if I feared the ninja, and believed that I had to kill you to prevent the ninja from ending the world?[/QUOTE] That's not a belief problem it's an organization problem.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;21294806]What if I feared the ninja, and believed that I had to kill you to prevent the ninja from ending the world?[/QUOTE] Then A) that means you believe in the ninja, and either believing or disbelieving in it is illogical B) You'd go to a mental home probably. Do you really think that by saying we shouldn't care about god I'm somehow condoning believing in him and doing crazy things for him?
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;21294828]If you take it from a theistic standpoint, humans have free will, so people suffering would coincide with making choices. That can be said about everyone, just because you didn't make the choice, someone did, and you suffer the consequences either way.[/QUOTE] So otherwise innocent babies and children in Africa die every minute of AIDS, starvation and other diseases, since apparently 2 humans ate an apple in a tree, and therefore humanity is evil and God allows the innocent to suffer?
[QUOTE=Mexican;21294865] Do you really think that by saying we shouldn't care about god I'm somehow condoning believing in him and doing crazy things for him?[/QUOTE] Seems like it to me.
The problem here is people are applying pragmatic logic to an existential issue
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;21294860]No, you can't disprove God, but you shouldn't believe in it.[/QUOTE] I disagree, if there are 4 billion people following something, odds are they're right
[QUOTE=Kybalt;21294700]Oh but you already have it, there is just no possible way to detect it, that's all. We're good man.[/QUOTE] FUCK YES THANK YOU I shall feed him and play with him every day and he shall be called Clip Clop and shall be my friend forever and ever!
[QUOTE=Archy;21294905]I disagree, if there are 4 billion people following something, odds are they're right[/QUOTE] Odds are they're stupid.
Well, There is no evidence to prove that God exists. There is no evidence to prove he doesn't exist. Because you don't know what God is. But the things religions say can be argued, eg. If he is all loving, why would he let people suffer from poverty and starve to death. Although you can argue that he is not what he is made out to be, this does not prove he doesn't exist. Aside from this, in recent times science has proved things such as, the Big Bang, Evolution, so it kind of proves God isn't what people make out. But I believe there needs to be evidence for something to exist, and seen as there is pretty much null evidence for the existence of a God, I don't believe there is one. I'm not one of these people, that are told something and believe it and go along with it, I have to personally know myself. I'd like to think I am a pretty curious person, and I have too many questions I'd like to be answered. I was brought up by Catholic beliefs, and went to a Catholic school. But I am Atheist, when I was around 12, I thought to myself, how can there be a God, there is no proof. And I think from then, till I can be proven there is a God, I will be Atheist. And I think more and more people will desert religion because science is finding more and more out, to disprove God. /wall of text.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;21294828]If you take it from a theistic standpoint, humans have free will, so people suffering would coincide with making choices. That can be said about everyone, just because you didn't make the choice, someone did, and you suffer the consequences either way.[/QUOTE] God has all knowledge, therefore he knew they'd eat that apple, causing all evil in the world. Indirectly, by not stopping this before hand because he knew it would happen, god caused all evil.
[QUOTE=petieng;21294782]Then do it. Prove to me with logic, as best you can, that God does not exist.[/QUOTE] You can't prove 100% that God doesn't exists, but that doesn't mean it's anywhere near probable.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;21294891]Seems like it to me.[/QUOTE] How. I'm saying both sides are illogical.
[QUOTE=Archy;21294905]I disagree, if there are 4 billion people following something, odds are they're right[/QUOTE] Logical fallacy.
[QUOTE=Archy;21294905]I disagree, if there are 4 billion people following something, odds are they're right[/QUOTE] Millions of people think twilight is the best book ever written. Is it?
[QUOTE=Mexican;21294899]The problem here is people are applying pragmatic logic to an existential issue[/QUOTE] for new page
[QUOTE=radioactive;21294920]Odds are they're stupid.[/QUOTE] 4-5 billion people are stupid eh? guess that means 4-5/6 people you've met are dumb then
[QUOTE=Mexican;21294899]The problem here is people are applying pragmatic logic to an existential issue[/QUOTE] But why is this any different? You don't send someone to jail on zero evidence, you shouldn't believe in mystic spirits and deities with zero proof. Also: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? "[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodicy#cite_note-45"][/URL]
[QUOTE=Zemog;21294796]Your question in Layman's term is: Where did mass come from? And of course, let me add in - what set it in motion? Time can not be infinite, since it's a term for the movement of mass - relativity. But at the same time it can. These questions and the answers are [B]beyond human logic[/B]. If we were told it's creation we would not understand nor comprehend it. The delusion of "God" is people who cannot answer this question and want a simple answer. My philosophy is; It cannot be answered. It is an impossible question with an impossible answer due to the limits - restrictions if you will - of the human brain.[/QUOTE] For new page. I'd like to hear what people think about this "Philosophy"
[QUOTE=Archy;21294905]I disagree, if there are 4 billion people following something, odds are they're right[/QUOTE] So the world used to be flat and then it rounded out over time as more people's beliefs switched?
[QUOTE=Archy;21294905]I disagree, if there are 4 billion people following something, odds are they're right[/QUOTE] Because the majority has been right before in past right? With how the earth was flat? With how blacks were different from whites? With how Jews were the cause of Germany's issues? Hmmmm... wait a minute...
[QUOTE=Archy;21294905]I disagree, if there are 4 billion people following something, odds are they're right[/QUOTE] Hahahaha! Wow. Ignorance at it's finest. At one point, only one person believed in a sun centred solar system, in relativity, in gravity, in anti-biotics, etc. Were those one persons right? Yes. Just because a lot of uneducated ignorant people believe in something, doesn't mean they're right.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;21294984]But why is this any different? You don't send someone to jail on zero evidence, you shouldn't believe in mystic spirits and deities with zero proof. Also: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? "[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodicy#cite_note-45"][/URL][/QUOTE] he's able, but then there's free will if people want to do evil shit, yeah he can do stuff against it, but that's not free will, is it?
[QUOTE=Archy;21294966]4-5 billion people are stupid eh? guess that means 4-5/6 people you've met are dumb then[/QUOTE] Depends on how you were raised. The childs mind is unique in that if it hears something and believes it it ties all bonds to what they think is logical. Like a tick it takes time to suck on, but then it sticks. You can get it off but it's hard.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;21294860]When someone tells you something incredible, you ask for proof. If they have zero proof, especially if what they claim is gigantic, you probably wouldn't believe it. Why is this any different? No, you can't disprove God, but you shouldn't believe in it.[/QUOTE] Again, I didn't say I did believe in it. Evidence for the mere existence of a God does not need to exist, because there needn't be any 'clues' in this universe that one does exist. This means the lack of evidence does not make a god's existence less likely. If you said to me that God punished evil, this would require evidence. It has an affect on our universe. I look and see that babies are still born, natural disasters occur and evil dictators live luxurious lives. I therefore say, evidence is against your claim and I don't believe in it. I say the universe was created as a computer program by a hyper intelligent being, making that being god. You say the universe was created from some unknown phenomena outside of our universe, it was not an intelligent decision, but random chance. How do you prove this either way? (By the way I do not believe the universe is on some super being's hard drive, I was just making a point :v:)
Ib4 Some faggot catholic country declares "HOLY WAR"
[QUOTE=Archy;21294966]4-5 billion people are stupid eh? guess that means 4-5/6 people you've met are dumb then[/QUOTE] You're horrible at statistics too. How do you know that all those stupid people aren't in other countries? You're just an idiot. [quote] Appeal to Belief is a fallacy that has this general pattern: Most people believe that a claim, X, is true. Therefore X is true. This line of "reasoning" is fallacious because the fact that many people believe a claim does not, in general, serve as evidence that the claim is true. There are, however, some cases when the fact that many people accept a claim as true is an indication that it is true. For example, while you are visiting Maine, you are told by several people that they believe that people older than 16 need to buy a fishing license in order to fish. Barring reasons to doubt these people, their statements give you reason to believe that anyone over 16 will need to buy a fishing license. There are also cases in which what people believe actually determines the truth of a claim. For example, the truth of claims about manners and proper behavior might simply depend on what people believe to be good manners and proper behavior. Another example is the case of community standards, which are often taken to be the standards that most people accept. In some cases, what violates certain community standards is taken to be obscene. In such cases, for the claim "x is obscene" to be true is for most people in that community to believe that x is obscene. In such cases it is still prudent to question the justification of the individual beliefs. See also Appeal to Popularity. Examples of Appeal to Belief At one time, most people in Europe believed that the earth was the center of the solar system (at least most of those who had beliefs about such things). However, this belief turned out to be false. God must exist. After all, I just saw a poll that says 85% of all Americans believe in God. Of course there is nothing wrong with drinking. Ask anyone, he'll tell you that he thinks drinking is just fine. [/quote]
[QUOTE=Archy;21295029]he's able, but then there's free will if people want to do evil shit, yeah he can do stuff against it, but that's not free will, is it?[/QUOTE] No one has free will, the government takes away our ability to kill people, to steal, to rape.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;21294984]But why is this any different? You don't send someone to jail on zero evidence, you shouldn't believe in mystic spirits and deities with zero proof.[/QUOTE] Because pragmatic is the kind of logic designed to maximize effectiveness of conclusions to issues that affect the world and is in fact based on assumptions because those assumptions generally work in a secular issue, whereas whether or not god exists is much more theological and assumptions simply cannot be made. [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;21294984]Also: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? "[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodicy#cite_note-45"][/URL][/QUOTE] I do like that quote and agree. The definition of what makes a god a god is a big issue. And that's why there are multiple possibilities, and it is not simply binary.
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