• Richard Dawkins: I will arrest Pope Benedict XVI
    821 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Mexican;21291595]Pretty sure most atheists also stand for stopping organized religions from running shit based on their beliefs.[/QUOTE] That might be true, but that has nothing to do with atheism.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;21291611]Can you stop pulling shit out of your ass?[/QUOTE] Oh okay so you're totally fine with organized religion running shit oh wait [QUOTE=Kybalt;21291467]Okay, hypothetical situation. Atheism gets organized. Eventually becomes the majority in many countries. Years later, everyone has their personal rights. Scientists can work unobstructed by religion. Technological singularity is reached.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Mexican;21291619]Yeah I'm saying the meaning will in fact be twisted if you let it be organized. Kind of like how Christianity went from a few hippies preaching peace and love to a global movement for dominance through crusading.[/QUOTE] So do you use a time machine or can you just see into the future?
[QUOTE=sp00ks;21291652]So do you use a time machine or can you just see into the future?[/QUOTE] Or do I have a history book and actually study up on things before I criticize them but history never repeats itself you're right
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;21291639]I'm sure that's just the extremist atheists, much like the extremist religious groups.[/QUOTE] Extremist atheist tells religion to stay out of government, which in the US is already in the constitution while religious extremists kill people.
[QUOTE=Mexican;21291619]Yeah I'm saying the meaning will in fact be twisted if you let it be organized. Kind of like how Christianity went from a few hippies preaching peace and love to a global movement for dominance through crusading.[/QUOTE] Atheism has no meaning other then that there is no god. How could that possibly be twisted? Above all I believe in logic, reasoning and the truth despite any consequences, which is why I am an atheist.
Oh, wow.
[QUOTE=Mexican;21291644]Oh okay so you're totally fine with organized religion running shit oh wait[/QUOTE] I like how you removed the part where I said that I can make up stories too.
[QUOTE=Mexican;21291674]Or do I have a history book and actually study up on things before I criticize them but history never repeats itself you're right[/QUOTE] You're misdefining atheism and saying that atheism will become a huge evil organization if it gets too many followers. That's just stupid.
He won't be able to do shit though. The Pope has diplomatic immunity.
An organized movement "preaching", and I hate that I'm using that term, atheism could do the world some good. It could stop a lot of hate that is fueled by religious quarrels. I can't see it being bastardized and becoming a corrupt organization. That's fundamentally impossible.
[QUOTE=th3cactusplant;21283000]Hooray, now that this has hit the news the pope will find out via word-of-mouth.[/QUOTE] If that happens, He is avoiding arrest. Therefore, he did it.
[QUOTE=Mexican;21291674]Or do I have a history book and actually study up on things before I criticize them but history never repeats itself you're right[/QUOTE] Do consider that an organization of atheists would be pretty fucking different from anything ever before in history.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;21291683]Atheism has no meaning other then that there is no god. How could that possibly be twisted? Above all I believe in logic, reasoning and the truth despite any consequences, which is why I am an atheist.[/QUOTE] If love thy neighbor can be twisted to kill non-believers then yeah it can. YOU personally probably won't be twisted and I'm not saying you will. Most people who are atheists now are smarter. I'm just saying as it gets more mainstream, dumber and dumber people will sign on, and [I]they[/I] are the ones who will be twisted, and then you're fucked because [I]they'll[/I] be the majority. [editline]02:07PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Kybalt;21291711]I like how you removed the part where I said that I can make up stories too.[/QUOTE] I didn't see the relevance, but I guess I do now. You don't actually believe that will happen then?
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;21291639]I'm sure that's just the extremist atheists, much like the extremist religious groups.[/QUOTE] It's not really extremists that wish religion could be brought to an end. It would be a wonderful thing. [QUOTE=Wakka;21291720]He won't be able to do shit though. The Pope has diplomatic immunity.[/QUOTE] I think that part of the point of this is to end an era of diplomatic immunity on the basis of being a [i]religious[/i] leader. Why should we give a leader of a religion immunity from international law?
[QUOTE=Mexican;21291746]If love thy neighbor can be twisted to kill non-believers than yeah it can. YOU personally probably won't be twisted and I'm not saying you will. Most people who are atheists now are smarter. I'm just saying as it gets more mainstream, dumber and dumber people will sign on, and [I]they[/I] are the ones who will be twisted, and then you're fucked because [I]they'll[/I] be the majority.[/QUOTE] You do realize that your argument against atheism isn't based on the truthfulness of the existence of a god, but instead it's based on the hypothesis that if the majority became atheist it would become corrupt. I'd like to add that in some European countries, atheism is the majority. [editline]03:11PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Mexican;21291746]If love thy neighbor can be twisted to kill non-believers then yeah it can. YOU personally probably won't be twisted and I'm not saying you will. Most people who are atheists now are smarter. I'm just saying as it gets more mainstream, dumber and dumber people will sign on, and [I]they[/I] are the ones who will be twisted, and then you're fucked because [I]they'll[/I] be the majority. [editline]02:07PM[/editline] [b]I didn't see the relevance, but I guess I do now. You don't actually believe that will happen then?[/b][/QUOTE] The point is that neither of us can see into the future, so arguing a "possible" outcome is completely pointless.
[QUOTE=Mexican;21291746]If love thy neighbor can be twisted to kill non-believers than yeah it can.[/QUOTE] What? Are you referring to extremist muslims? Because those are entirely different parts of two different books [QUOTE=Mexican;21291746]YOU personally probably won't be twisted and I'm not saying you will. Most people who are atheists now are smarter. I'm just saying as it gets more mainstream, dumber and dumber people will sign on, and [I]they[/I] are the ones who will be twisted, and then you're fucked because [I]they'll[/I] be the majority.[/QUOTE] The dumb people aren't going to be the ones who have influence and power. Nor is an organization that is based on the lack of a belief in a god going to become corrupt. [QUOTE=Mexican;21291746]I didn't see the relevance, but I guess I do now. You don't actually believe that will happen then?[/QUOTE] Religion isn't ending soon so no he doesn't [editline]03:11PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Kybalt;21291738]Do consider that an organization of atheists would be pretty fucking different from anything ever before in history.[/QUOTE] This
[QUOTE=Kybalt;21291814]You do realize that your argument against atheism isn't based on the truthfulness of the existence of a god, but instead it's based on the hypothesis that if the majority became atheist it would become corrupt. I'd like to add that in some European countries, atheism is the majority.[/QUOTE] I'm not arguing against atheism, I'm saying that making it organized is against the very principles that most atheists stand for and is just an over all bad idea. Being the majority is not the same as being organized. [editline]02:13PM[/editline] [QUOTE=DOG-GY;21291852]What? Are you referring to extremist muslims? Because those are entirely different parts of two different books[/QUOTE] Was talking about Christians, the religion founded on peace and love which then killed thousands. [QUOTE=DOG-GY;21291852]The dumb people aren't going to be the ones who have influence and power. Nor is an organization that is based on the lack of a belief in a god going to become corrupt.[/QUOTE] No, but the corrupt people will have the power over the dumb people.
[QUOTE=Mexican;21291866]I'm saying that making it organized is against the very principles that most atheists stand for and is just an over all bad idea.[/QUOTE] Against what principles? Atheists tend to be against religion. How is making an organization dedicated to a common cause against atheistic principles. [QUOTE=Mexican;21291866]Being the majority is not the same as being organized.[/QUOTE] And your point?
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;21291907]Against what principles? Atheists tend to be against religion. How is making an organization dedicated to a common cause against atheistic principles.[/QUOTE] Because the fact that they are organized and blindly following a leader is what's bad, not theistic beliefs, and blind following is always the direct result of organization.
[QUOTE=Mexican;21291866]I'm not arguing against atheism, I'm saying that making it organized is against the very principles that most atheists stand for and is just an over all bad idea. Being the majority is not the same as being organized. [editline]02:13PM[/editline] Was talking about Christians, the religion founded on peace and love which then killed thousands. No, but the corrupt people will have the power over the dumb people.[/QUOTE] I can see your point, you're saying an atheist organization would be susceptible to corruption... right? However, that applies to any organization ran by humans, atheist or not has no bearing on it. [editline]03:16PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Mexican;21291921]Because the fact that they are organized and blindly following a leader is what's bad, not theistic beliefs, and blind following is always the direct result of organization.[/QUOTE] This applies to any organization ever. However, with an atheistic organization, the claims can actually be fact checked.
[QUOTE=Mexican;21291866]Was talking about Christians, the religion founded on peace and love which then killed thousands.[/QUOTE]The love thy neighbor idea wasn't twisted into anything, it was ignored by extremists, and religion has been used countless times as an excuse for a selfish intent (crusades). [QUOTE=Mexican;21291866]No, but the corrupt people will have the power over the dumb people.[/QUOTE] That would be government becoming corrupt. You're not going to see people dedicating themselves to organized "we don't believe in god" groups
[QUOTE=Kybalt;21291924]I can see your point, you're saying an atheist organization would be susceptible to corruption... right? However, that applies to any organization ran by humans, atheist or not has no bearing on it.[/QUOTE] Exactly. I know it applies to all organizations. That's why I'm fundamentally against making any attempt to organize any belief system, at all, not just atheism. It's what the cause of problems are, not simply theistic belief. Political, religious, all of these can turn violent and ugly once organized, but as independent philosophies they are fine.
[QUOTE=Mexican;21291969]Exactly. I know it applies to all organizations. That's why I'm fundamentally against making any attempt to organize any belief system, at all, not just atheism. It's what the cause of problems are, not simply theistic belief. Political, religious, all of these can turn violent and ugly once organized, but as independent philosophies they are fine.[/QUOTE] Atheism isn't a belief system...
Without organizations (government) we can not have a functioning society.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;21291987]Atheism isn't a belief system...[/QUOTE] I can't think of the right words, but you get what I'm trying to say. [QUOTE=DOG-GY;21291993]Without organizations (government) we can not have a functioning society.[/QUOTE] True, true. That's why our government tries to make itself as fair and flexible as possible, so we aren't controlled like all these other groups are.
Atheism is simply a view on one particular subject. It is not a belief system whatsoever. People who are atheists happen to not believe in a god or higher power. It's not a religion because A) It has no dogma B) It's a view on one particular subject C) A religion has multiple views on multiple subjects.
So how would an organization based on people thinking there is no God suddenly gain mass approval, power, and have corrupt intentions? A movement like that would be based on logic, and therefore be able to easily check and balance itself if it ever got any power. Not that it would [editline]03:29PM[/editline] bumpin up da page countt
[QUOTE=Mexican;21292033]I can't think of the right words, but you get what I'm trying to say. True, true. That's why our government tries to make itself as fair and flexible as possible, so we aren't controlled like all these other groups are.[/QUOTE] You keep turning Atheism into a belief, but you never say what that belief would be based on. I would imagine it would be based on logic and reasoning. [editline]03:31PM[/editline] ninja'd
No matter how much we need it to happen, this guy is a huge pussy and won't do shit, he's only saying things.
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