[QUOTE=cody8295;50634477]We're just gonna ignore that list of people who went to jail for MUCH LESS than what clinton did? Last page if you didn't see it.[/QUOTE]
I didn't ignore it. I covered it in my larger post above yours. Why didn't you quote that post instead of a completely irrelevant one about Snowden?
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50634504]I didn't ignore it. I covered it in my larger post above yours. Why didn't you quote that post instead of a completely irrelevant one about Snowden?[/QUOTE]
All you said was that the connections of the cases are tenuous, which isn't really addressing the fact that Hillary is getting special privilege because she's rich and powerful. Sorry if you said more but I didn't see it. Please quote or link
If Clinton is getting special privilege because she is rich and powerful than our justice system is no longer capable of acting fairly. So skip the indictment and skip the trial. Hang her in the National Mall and be done with it.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50634529]If Clinton is getting special privilege because she is rich and powerful than our justice system is no longer capable of acting fairly. So skip the indictment and skip the trial. Hang her in the National Mall and be done with it.[/QUOTE]
If she werent always surrounded by SS then I'm sure somebody would have taken out the trash by now
[highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Constantly Shitposting in Political Threads" - rilez))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=cody8295;50634558]If she werent always surrounded by SS then I'm sure somebody would have taken out the trash by now[/QUOTE]
Holy shit.
It's Saturday. Is she in jail yet?
[QUOTE=Jitterz;50634673]It's Saturday. Is she in jail yet?[/QUOTE]
Nope, and it looks like she willingly went to the interview, big sign she is not getting charged.
[QUOTE=cody8295;50634218]Actually gross negligence is a crime, especially when we're talking about national security secrets.
People who are in or will go to jail for much less serious offenses:
Kristian Saucier
David Petraeus
John Deutch
Sandy Berger
Bryan Nishimura[/QUOTE]
Only the first one might still get jail time, the rest got probation, fines and community service.
Deutch is the most comparable and they declined to prosecute him.
[QUOTE=Cold;50634712]Only the first one might still get jail time, the rest got probation, fines and community service.
Deutch is the most comparable and they declined to prosecute him.[/QUOTE]
He was pardoned by Bill Clinton after accepting a plea deal...
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50634463]Edward Snowden took state secrets and fled to Russia, met with Russian government officials, then leaked the documents via wikileaks.
You're right, it's not a fair comparison; what he did was far worse than what Clinton is being accused of.[/QUOTE]
What a pathetic description of events. Snowden leaked the documents via The Guardian UK with the express intent of informing the American people (as well as other nations affected) of the NSA's abusive surveillance. He fled to Russia and "met with Russian government officials" to apply for asylum because the US was preparing to destroy him like they did Manning. You're seriously gross for even suggesting Snowden is some sort of Russian double agent type actor.
[QUOTE=srobins;50633816]We already have leaks of her intentionally stripping security headers from documents and sending them insecurely. I don't know what else you could need.[/QUOTE]
You mean this?
[quote]"If they can't," Clinton replies, "turn into nonpaper w no identifying heading and send nonsecure."[/quote]
Do you know what a nonpaper is?
[quote] It has no identified source, title, or attribution and no standing in the relationship involved.[/quote]
What do you think 'identifying headings' refers to in this context?
And also,
[quote]The State Department release does not make clear what the contents of the email were or whether the information was classified.[/quote]
[editline]2nd July 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=cody8295;50634721]He was pardoned by Bill Clinton after accepting a plea deal...[/QUOTE]
Fair enough
[quote]Senior management at CIA declined to fully pursue the security breach. Over two years after his departure, the matter was referred to the Department of Justice, where Attorney General Janet Reno declined prosecution. She did, however, recommend an investigation to determine whether Deutch should retain his security clearance[/quote]
[quote]Deutch had agreed to plead guilty to a misdemeanor for mishandling government secrets, but President Clinton pardoned him before the Justice Department could file the case against him[/quote]
[quote]The plea agreement he signed was contingent upon the judge accepting a sentence worked out by both sides, which called for no prison time and a $5,000 fine[/quote]
The statements on wikipedia seem contradictory, so i am not sure what to make of that
None the less he was pardoned for a 5.000$ fine and they never seeked a prison sentence.
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_M._Deutch#CIA_career[/url]
The mental gymnastics people go through to defend Hillary Clinton never cease to amaze me.
At least Trump never denied making deals with the Philly Mob.
Still, what a clusterfuck of an election.
Raidyr saying my Nixon comparison is not fair, but then focuses on Snowden comparison that is completely unfair.
I truly believe your Trump hate is so huge, that you try to downplay Clinton's faults despite the mountains of good reasons people have deemed her criminal, or at the very least grossly incompetent.
I may want to vote Trump over Hilary, but I don't lie to myself that choosing between both is like which one of my feet am I going to shoot.
[QUOTE=srobins;50634742]What a pathetic description of events. Snowden leaked the documents via The Guardian UK with the express intent of informing the American people (as well as other nations affected) of the NSA's abusive surveillance. He fled to Russia and "met with Russian government officials" to apply for asylum because the US was preparing to destroy him like they did Manning. You're seriously gross for even suggesting Snowden is some sort of Russian double agent type actor.[/QUOTE]
the only thing I got wrong was saying Wikileaks instead of the Guardiand and WaPo. I'm also not suggesting he was a sort of Russian double agent and I've no clue how you could have gathered that from my post
[QUOTE=Tudd;50635196]Raidyr saying my Nixon comparison is not fair, but then focuses on Snowden comparison that is completely unfair.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's a fair comparison at all and I've said as much. Read thread pls.
[QUOTE=Tudd;50635196]I truly believe your Trump hate is so huge, that you try to downplay Clinton's faults despite the mountains of good reasons people have deemed her criminal, or at the very least grossly incompetent.
I may want to vote Trump over Hilary, but I don't lie to myself that choosing between both is like which one of my feet am I going to shoot.[/QUOTE]
Nice try but the election and this investigation are two completely separate matters in my mind. Trump doesn't even enter the equation.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50635292]the only thing I got wrong was saying Wikileaks instead of the Guardiand and WaPo. I'm also not suggesting he was a sort of Russian double agent and I've no clue how you could have gathered that from my post
I don't think it's a fair comparison at all and I've said as much. Read thread pls.
Nice try but the election and this investigation are two completely separate matters in my mind. Trump doesn't even enter the equation.[/QUOTE]
The wording of your post very clearly implies that Snowden essentially betrayed the United States and gave state secrets to Russia, don't be coy.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50634463]Edward Snowden took state secrets and fled to Russia, met with Russian government officials, then leaked the documents via wikileaks.
You're right, it's not a fair comparison; what he did was far worse than what Clinton is being accused of.[/QUOTE]
it was either flee to Russia, or become a non story, forgotten about so the american people would never have to deal with the reality of the NSA's over reaches.
There's really no alternative. He either fled, or the US would bury him, either literally or metaphorically but the info we got from him was very important.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50635292]
I don't think it's a fair comparison at all and I've said as much. Read thread pls. [/QUOTE]
You should probably start reading the general thread reaction to what your saying. You are being silly.
[QUOTE=srobins;50635364]The wording of your post very clearly implies that Snowden essentially betrayed the United States and gave state secrets to Russia, don't be coy.[/QUOTE]
No it doesn't. I'm not being coy, I'm telling you the things you think I'm implying aren't being implied. Stop putting words in my mouth.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50635385]it was either flee to Russia, or become a non story, forgotten about so the american people would never have to deal with the reality of the NSA's over reaches.
There's really no alternative. He either fled, or the US would bury him, either literally or metaphorically but the info we got from him was very important.[/QUOTE]
I mean I'm not going to say it was a dumb idea or that his release wasn't important but nothing I said in that post is factually wrong except where I attributed wikileaks to being the source and not the Guardian so, as ever, I don't get the point of your reply.
Maybe we should switch topics away from comparing two very different cases like Snowden's leaks and Clintons server.
[QUOTE=Tudd;50635458]You should probably start reading the general thread reaction to what your saying. You are being silly.[/QUOTE]
You're being silly. Stop derailing.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;50635554]No it doesn't. I'm not being coy, I'm telling you the things you think I'm implying aren't being implied. Stop putting words in my mouth.
I mean I'm not going to say it was a dumb idea or that his release wasn't important but nothing I said in that post is factually wrong except where I attributed wikileaks to being the source and not the Guardian so, as ever, I don't get the point of your reply.
Maybe we should switch topics away from comparing two very different cases like Snowden's leaks and Clintons server.
You're being silly. Stop derailing.[/QUOTE]
Really? Then what was the relevance of mentioning that he met with Russian officials? Or that he fled to Russia? Neither of which are significant in any way unless to imply that Snowden provided state secrets to Russia. I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm taking the logical interpretation of what you said.
[editline]2nd July 2016[/editline]
I like how quickly you back down from "Snowden is way worse than Clinton" to "Snowden is important and fleeing to Russia was a good idea but technically nothing I said was false!"
so let me guess she got away with it?
[QUOTE=srobins;50635579]
I like how quickly you back down from "Snowden is way worse than Clinton" to "Snowden is important and fleeing to Russia was a good idea but technically nothing I said was false!"[/QUOTE]
Based purely on their actions, regardless of the actual data leaked, is laziness in regards to data security worse than deliberately leaking data?
[QUOTE=benwaddi;50635606]Based purely on their actions, regardless of the actual data leaked, is laziness in regards to data security worse than deliberately leaking data?[/QUOTE]
That's a poor attempt at forcing me to say "Snowden worse than Hillary" sans context. In terms of data security? Of course an intentional leak is worse. In terms of the conversation we're actually having about who deserves criticism more, and whose actions are more just and moral? Snowden's leak is infinitely superior to Hillary's circumvention of security protocols and ensuing cover-up.
[QUOTE=benwaddi;50635606]Based purely on their actions, regardless of the actual data leaked, is laziness in regards to data security worse than deliberately leaking data?[/QUOTE]
In regards to who's going to be leading a country?
Snowdens not trying to run a country, and he deliberately leaked documents. Hilary who is, and also has a huge staff of people working for her was lazy and careless.
What's worse?
Being lazy and careless for a person trying to rule a fucking country, that's for sure.
Snowden was a whistleblower who threw away a comfortable life to reveal troubling secrets to the American people. Clinton is a lying politician who violated security protocol for personal gain. Anyone that thinks Snowden is worse than Clinton is.. Not very intelligent, imo.
[QUOTE=srobins;50635755]Snowden was a whistleblower who threw away a comfortable life to reveal troubling secrets to the American people. Clinton is a lying politician who violated security protocol for personal gain. Anyone that thinks Snowden is worse than Clinton is.. Not very intelligent, imo.[/QUOTE]
Oh give me a break, you cant put a slant on that and then call other not intelligent. I'm not even defending Hillary, I'm pointing out how hypocritical it is to selectively implement the law and the impending tears you will have when Hillary isn't prosecuted. If you had any foresight or half a clue you would know that's how this plays out.
I guess I found who has the dirty knees though.
[QUOTE=benwaddi;50635792]Oh give me a break, you cant put a slant on that and then call other not intelligent. I'm not even defending Hillary, I'm pointing out how hypocritical it is to selectively implement the law and the impending tears you will have when Hillary isn't prosecuted. If you had any foresight or half a clue you would know that's how this plays out.
I guess I found who has the dirty knees though.[/QUOTE]
The guy who leaked secrets even congress was unaware of is not a bad guy. He's a hero. You can call me a hypocrite or whatever you jolly well please but he's a hero in my eyes.
Hilary is just a lazy and careless person trying to lead a nation, I know who I trust the least
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50635798]The guy who leaked secrets even congress was unaware of is not a bad guy. He's a hero. You can call me a hypocrite or whatever you jolly well please but he's a hero in my eyes.
Hilary is just a lazy and careless person trying to lead a nation, I know who I trust the least[/QUOTE]
The Snowden situation is multifaceted, he did release important info but my worries about leaks like that have always been about how it knocks on. Does it make government agencies more underground and force their hand into acting against journalists and whistle blowers? Snowden certainly seemed to think it might. So I hold reserve on calling him a hero until we know more. I'm not sold on the coincidence of the whole Russian thing, I know that will make you salty as hell but considering the shit we already know governments do, its entirely in the realm of possibilities but again I'm holding back on saying he's a traitor or a patriot until I know more. But my opinion probably wont be swayed by people who venerate him or demonise the guy.
There is no doubt however that prosecuting a SOS would do damage to internal whistle blowing regarding security measures. Should she be punished? in an ideal world, yes if she is guilty but the repercussions could cause more damage than it is worth.
[QUOTE=benwaddi;50635792]Oh give me a break, you cant put a slant on that and then call other not intelligent. I'm not even defending Hillary, I'm pointing out how hypocritical it is to selectively implement the law and the impending tears you will have when Hillary isn't prosecuted. If you had any foresight or half a clue you would know that's how this plays out.
I guess I found who has the dirty knees though.[/QUOTE]
Explain to me what is hypocritical about supporting a whistleblower while disliking someone who violated security protocols for personal gain and then covered it up. I don't think you have a very comprehensive grasp of the concept of hypocrisy.
So will when we know when the obvious happens of her getting off scout free
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