Bernie and Donald are already competing for voters - Polidicks

Trump is terrible but but he's not establishment. The establishment hates the guy. He's rich and shares their interests but they can't control him.

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49713118]And who better to bring jobs back from over seas as well as fix the economy and budget than a business man who is very successful. I can tell you who isn't right for the job, Bernie.[/QUOTE] He made an awful lot of money out of bankrupting companies. Running a business for self interest is a very, very different thing to running a whole nation's economy for the interests of the people. Please elaborate on why Bernie isn't right for the job despite his policies (which are moderate compared to what has already been happening in most of Europe for decades) being backed up by mainstream economics. [editline]10th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Rangergxi;49713181]Trump is terrible but but he's not establishment. The establishment hates the guy. He's rich and shares their interests but they can't control him.[/QUOTE] Better a puppet you can control than a competitor you can't control.

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49713118]And who better to bring [b]jobs back from over seas[/b] as well as fix the economy and budget than a business man who is very successful. I can tell you who isn't right for the job, Bernie.[/QUOTE] I really can't express how ironic that is, because businessmen find it much more profitable to keep jobs overseas by paying out lower wages.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49709367]Trump is the truest representation of corporatism corrupting the government process at it's worse.[/QUOTE] Doesn't matter. Trump supporters, who are really just supporters of America, will continue working for the country, regardless of who is elected. However, electing Trump emboldens these people. It organizes them into a force. It's not about him, it's about what he represents. Now that these people are awake, and realize they are strong, it's mostly irrelevant who wins the next presidency. But Trump will certainly help. So, I see your point. I just think there's a lot more stuff going on that trumps that aspect of his platform. EDIT [QUOTE=benzi2k7;49713154]ok, tell us why bernie isnt right for the job then[/QUOTE] Because he's old, and pretty soft. There's nothing about him that's intimidating. Trump's main business growing up was as a landlord in New York. He's a rough guy, and he'll personally beat the hell out of you if you are trying to cheat him. I don't think Bernie's ever done anything stronger than yelling. He has no real presence, and he's too willing to compromise. In short, he's a politician.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49713786]Because he's old, and pretty soft. There's nothing about him that's intimidating. Trump's main business growing up was as a landlord in New York. He's a rough guy, and he'll personally beat the hell out of you if you are trying to cheat him. I don't think Bernie's ever done anything stronger than yelling. He has no real presence, and he's too willing to compromise. In short, he's a politician.[/QUOTE] "Oh he's a weak old man, he'd probably let the Russians/Chinese/Boogeyman have their way with us." is such a god damn stupid fucking point it literally angers me when people bring it up. I'm sorry he doesn't want to make Mexico build a border fence or bring back waterboarding, but that's because he's living in reality and not "I live in a mental bubble" land.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49713786] Because he's old, and pretty soft. There's nothing about him that's intimidating. Trump's main business growing up was as a landlord in New York. He's a rough guy, and he'll personally beat the hell out of you if you are trying to cheat him. I don't think Bernie's ever done anything stronger than yelling. He has no real presence, and he's too willing to compromise. In short, he's a politician.[/QUOTE] Who the fuck gives a shit about whether your leader is intimidating, what matters is that he can actually make well-informed decisions.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49713786]Trump's main business growing up was as a landlord in New York. He's a rough guy, and [B]he'll personally beat the hell out of you[/B] if you are trying to cheat him.[/QUOTE] :disgust: Are politics a schoolyard fracas now? Do we elect people by how good at beating up other people they are?

I feel that people that say "Bernie isn't intimidating, scary or strong" is the only answer they have because they fail to be able to dispute his political ideals and policies. Essentially, it's nothing better than an ad hominem.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49713786]Doesn't matter. Trump supporters, who are really just supporters of America, will continue working for the country, regardless of who is elected. However, electing Trump emboldens these people. It organizes them into a force. It's not about him, it's about what he represents. Now that these people are awake, and realize they are strong, it's mostly irrelevant who wins the next presidency. But Trump will certainly help. So, I see your point. I just think there's a lot more stuff going on that trumps that aspect of his platform. EDIT Because he's old, and pretty soft. There's nothing about him that's intimidating. Trump's main business growing up was as a landlord in New York. He's a rough guy, and he'll personally beat the hell out of you if you are trying to cheat him. I don't think Bernie's ever done anything stronger than yelling. He has no real presence, and he's too willing to compromise. In short, he's a politician.[/QUOTE]how does him being a tough guy solve homelessness, lack of jobs, shit wages, exploitation of the poor, outsourcing of jobs, lack of healthcare for every american regardless of class, wealth inequality, rampant crony capitalism, systematic racism, and the literal neo-slavery that is the prison system targeted mainly at black americans (pushed along by bill clinton lmao) the world isn't a boxing ring where people get together and shout at each other, you think putin is where he is because he's a tough guy? there's plans and concepts behind what he is doing before he puts on the big guy image, because that's what it is. it's an image, it's for public relations, regardless of if he is tough or not it is an image he uses to put forth policies and plans that work towards keeping his power/his vision of the state of russia. trump being a 'tough' guy means shit without actually discussing his policies and plans, what are the issues he's putting forth and then defending with his big strong arms?? you think a dude worth tens of billions of dollars or prison lobbyists who work in the trade of human capital give a shit about this dude being tough? without discussion of his actual plans and why they will benefit the american people putting the emphasis on his personal character being his main strength (especially when the source of that strength is pseudo-machismo), just ends up stinking of fascist hero worship

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49714002]I feel that people that say "Bernie isn't intimidating, scary or strong" is the only answer they have because they fail to be able to dispute his political ideals and policies. Essentially, it's nothing better than an ad hominem.[/QUOTE] Which is weird because his record in congress, his ability to get cross party support for numerous bills he's been involved with and his role on various different committees shows that he's a very strong negotiater which is a lot more important than just being intimidating.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49714002]I feel that people that say "Bernie isn't intimidating, scary or strong" is the only answer they have because they fail to be able to dispute his political ideals and policies. Essentially, it's nothing better than an ad hominem.[/QUOTE] This. It reminds me of the people who (kindly enough) say, "Well I'd have a beer with so-and-so." It's a meaningless statement that does not assess in a deeply critical manner what exactly makes a candidate who they are; what makes them electable, what makes them a good person, etc. It's just intellectual laziness. Looks don't count for a fucking thing when it comes to what makes a person who they are, unless that person has no emotional depth to them and is your run-of-the-mill idiot that banks off their looks since that's their only asset in life. Abraham Lincoln was an ugly, gangly giant with a tweedy voice. Theodore Roosevelt was short, asthma-afflicted, and half-blind. Harry Truman was a soft-spoken, spectacled hick from Missouri. Lyndon Johnson had no social graces to speak of in his private life, looked and behaved like a clown, and gave interviews to the press when he was on the White House shitter. Etc. The other thing about looks-- don't get attached to them either, because they're going to disappear if you live long enough. You can try to fight aging all you want; it's a losing battle, and you'll just die tired. We have this weird obsession here in the United States with youthfulness and the beauty of vitality, and it's fucking stupid. People get old. They fall apart. That's life. We need to learn to deal with it. Sanders is a fantastic candidate. He's also old. He looks old. So what? Vote for him.

One would think age is equal to wisdom and would be seen in a positive light :v:

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;49713950]"Oh he's a weak old man, he'd probably let the Russians/Chinese/Boogeyman have their way with us." is such a god damn stupid fucking point it literally angers me when people bring it up. I'm sorry he doesn't want to make Mexico build a border fence or bring back waterboarding, but that's because he's living in reality and not "I live in a mental bubble" land.[/QUOTE] I'm not worried about the Russians and the Chinese, we already have military tough guys to take care of them. I'm worried about the weak people who have taken over our government, and continually make terrible decisions, and can only be ripped out of power by a tough guy who will personally beat the shit out of them. [QUOTE=benzi2k7;49714029]how does him being a tough guy solve homeless ... black americans (pushed along by bill clinton lmao) the world isn't a boxing ring ... russia. trump being a 'tough' guy means ... fascist hero worship[/QUOTE] You've got some strange ideas about how the world works. EDIT [QUOTE=Govna;49714505] Sanders is a fantastic candidate. He's also old. He looks old. So what? Vote for him.[/QUOTE] Sanders is a terrible candidate. He's 74. Trump is 69. Sanders is just five years older than Trump. Trump's in great shape, and Sanders looks like an fossilized troll doll. Is you point that you should vote for the ugly person?

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49714661]I'm not worried about the Russians and the Chinese, we already have military tough guys to take care of them. I'm worried about the weak people who have taken over our government, and continually make terrible decisions, and can only be ripped out of power by a tough guy who will personally beat the shit out of them. You've got some strange ideas about how the world works.[/QUOTE] So you want a tough guy who can make terrible decisions over a more meek and personable person who can make stronger decisions and reach consensus among two radically different parties? It's the "he doesn't seem presidential enough" argument. So what? Sanders' has proven his abilities as a negotiator. What the US government needs is a decrease in party polarity - a shift from mud-slinging across the aisle to consensus and compromise across the aisle. Ironically, Sanders is the best candidate at reaching across the aisle, and he's shown it. Trump's one of the people slinging mud. There's more to politics than who acts the most tough. That leads to nothing but higher party polarity - Democrats and Republicans will hate each other more and even less will get done. Diplomacy involves negotiation and discussion and compromise - Trump is the last person on the ballot, except probably Cruz, who displays those traits.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49714661]I'm not worried about the Russians and the Chinese, we already have military tough guys to take care of them. [B]I'm worried about the weak people who have taken over our government, and continually make terrible decisions, and [highlight]can only be ripped out of power by a tough guy who will personally beat the shit out of them.[/highlight][/B][/QUOTE] You're fucking delusional. Hate to break it to you. [QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49714661] You've got some strange ideas about how the world works. [/QUOTE] And you wanting a Fascist in Republican clothing to be President purely because he's a loud mouthed asshole isn't strange in the slightest? [QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49714661]Sanders is a terrible candidate. He's 74. Trump is 69. Sanders is just five years older than Trump. Trump's in great shape, and Sanders looks like an fossilized troll doll. Is you point that you should vote for the ugly person?[/QUOTE] Yep, delusional.

You should vote based on [i]policy[/i], not on appearance. You should vote based on [i]voting record[/i], not based on toughness. You should vote based on [i]who represents your political interests[/i], not who you find more physically appealing. You should vote based on [i]who will serve your social and economic interests[/i], not someone who is entertaining to watch.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49714661] Sanders is a terrible candidate. He's 74. Trump is 69. Sanders is just five years older than Trump. Trump's in great shape, and Sanders looks like an fossilized troll doll. Is you point that you should vote for the ugly person?[/QUOTE] People age differently? are you this entrenched in your views you'll scrape, scrounge, and scrap for every little thing you can hold on to?

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49714661]Sanders is a terrible candidate. He's 74. Trump is 69. Sanders is just five years older than Trump. Trump's in great shape, and Sanders looks like an fossilized troll doll. Is you point that you should vote for the ugly person?[/QUOTE] What is wrong with you? Dear lord.

daily reminder that this is what Donald Trump used to look like [IMG]http://wpmedia.news.nationalpost.com/2015/07/trump_obrien_bmag_2-e1438277564471.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=286&h=521[/IMG] versus how he looks now [thumb]http://www.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2015516/rs_634x1024-150616073901-634.Donald-Trump.jl.061615.jpg[/thumb] the only reason you're surprised to hear he's nearly 70 is because you don't know what he looked like before he was morphed into a freeze-dried banana slice in an attempt to stop his rapid male-pattern baldness [thumb]https://www.northbaytrading.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/d/fd_sliced_banana_650px.jpg[/thumb]

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49714661]You've got some strange ideas about how the world works. [/QUOTE]its very easy to reply to someones post when you replace the majority of the words with ... lmao tell me, how do you think the world works? you are basing your position on trump purely through his looks (??) and the image he gives off. you think the wealthy in society are all handsome super models with physically built bodies shouting about stocks while in a boxing ring or something?? please argue to me, how does him being tough: "solve homelessness, lack of jobs, shit wages, exploitation of the poor, outsourcing of jobs, lack of healthcare for every american regardless of class, wealth inequality, rampant crony capitalism, systematic racism, and the literal neo-slavery that is the prison system targeted mainly at black americans" these are actual huge issues facing your country (and for most of them mine too), please tell me what policies he is putting forth to solve those issues. this isn't some ego playfight, this isn't about projecting an image of toughness or the public perception of a country. these are internal issues, created from the inside. shouldn't you have some concept of the policies and plans of a person you're supporting, outside of some obsession with his machismo. to be in a position where your main worry is the toughness of your potential president says how out of touch you are with the lived reality of people in your country.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;49714696]So you want a tough guy who can make terrible decisions over a more meek and personable person who can make stronger decisions and reach consensus among two radically different parties? It's the "he doesn't seem presidential enough" argument. So what? Sanders' has proven his abilities as a negotiator. What the US government needs is a decrease in party polarity - a shift from mud-slinging across the aisle to consensus and compromise across the aisle. Ironically, Sanders is the best candidate at reaching across the aisle, and he's shown it. Trump's one of the people slinging mud. There's more to politics than who acts the most tough. That leads to nothing but higher party polarity - Democrats and Republicans will hate each other more and even less will get done. Diplomacy involves negotiation and discussion and compromise - Trump is the last person on the ballot, except probably Cruz, who displays those traits.[/QUOTE] So far, the government Sanders has been a part of has succeeded in making us the stupidest, most hated nation on the planet. Whatever magic you think he has, he's clearly not got enough of to fix things. If he couldn't do anything with a little power, what makes you think he can do anything with a lot of power? [QUOTE=purvisdavid1;49714704]You're fucking delusional. Hate to break it to you. And you wanting a Fascist in Republican clothing to be President purely because he's a loud mouthed asshole isn't strange in the slightest? Yep, delusional.[/QUOTE] Then the whole country's crazy and you're one of the few sane people left, because last time I checked, Trump is going to be the next president. I want him because he is entirely committed to his platform of making america great again. Who cares if he's a fascist or a nazi, or a loud mouth? I don't want to live in a third world nation just because we're scared to get called mean names.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49714661]I'm not worried about the Russians and the Chinese, we already have military tough guys to take care of them. I'm worried about the weak people who have taken over our government, and continually make terrible decisions, and can only be ripped out of power by a tough guy who will personally beat the shit out of them.[/quote] So you advocate assault and battery in politics? Intriguing. Haven't had something like that happen in government in over 100 years. [QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49714661]Sanders is a terrible candidate. He's 74. Trump is 69. Sanders is just five years older than Trump. Trump's in great shape, and Sanders looks like an fossilized troll doll. Is you point that you should vote for the ugly person?[/QUOTE] And is your point that you should vote for the pretty person...? Beside that, how a person looks is not equal to how well they physically are. You can have wrinkled skin and still be extremely healthy.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49714857]Then the whole country's crazy and you're one of the few sane people left, because last time I checked,[B] Trump is going to be the next president. [/B] I want him because he is entirely committed to his platform of making america great again. [B]Who cares if he's a fascist or a nazi, or a loud mouth?[/B] I don't want [B]to live in a third world nation[/B] just because [B]we're scared to get called mean names.[/B][/QUOTE] How can someone be this clueless. There's no such thing as a fucking third world nation, the "First" and "Second" world bullshit was referring to Pro-US or Pro-USSR countries and the third world were non-aligned to either. With the USSR gone, so should this First, Second, and Third world bullshit.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49714857]So far, the government Sanders has been a part of has succeeded in making us the stupidest, most hated nation on the planet. Whatever magic you think he has, he's clearly not got enough of to fix things. If he couldn't do anything with a little power, what makes you think he can do anything with a lot of power?[/quote] Can you be specific? Especially on how we're stupid and hated? (The latter I'm sure is more due to the Bush presidency than anything if it's actually true) In your own words he has "little power" yet you expect mountains to be moved with ease, I'm guessing? [QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49714857]Then the whole country's crazy and you're one of the few sane people left, because last time I checked, Trump is going to be the next president. I want him because he is entirely committed to his platform of making america great again. Who cares if he's a fascist or a nazi, or a loud mouth? I don't want to live in a third world nation just because we're scared to get called mean names.[/QUOTE] Trump does extremely poorly with general voters. He can't even capture the majority of the GOP base. A vote for Trump, if nominated, is a vote for Democrat in the White House 2016. And what exactly does this "making America great again" entail? How are we not great? On top of that, I'm pretty damn sure it's important to [I]not[/I] elect a fascist or nazi to power. Unless you have no idea what those things are, which I'm guessing is highly likely.

Trump's anti-establishment rhetoric is nothing more than the line he takes because it's convenient for him to do so. In truth, while he'll point fingers at his opponents for being industry puppets, his ORIGINAL approach to running for office was to offer himself up as an industry puppet. He was rejected, got pissed off, and started funding his own campaign. He absolutely IS the establishment in its purest form. Rather than being a politician getting his playbook from industry, he IS industry attempting to take direct control. In that respect, I don't know if Trump would be better, or WORSE than the TPP.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49714857]So far, the government Sanders has been a part of has succeeded in making us the stupidest, most hated nation on the planet. Whatever magic you think he has, he's clearly not got enough of to fix things. If he couldn't do anything with a little power, what makes you think he can do anything with a lot of power? Then the whole country's crazy and you're one of the few sane people left, because last time I checked, Trump is going to be the next president. I want him because he is entirely committed to his platform of making america great again. Who cares if he's a fascist or a nazi, or a loud mouth? I don't want to live in a third world nation just because we're scared to get called mean names.[/QUOTE]holy shit please reply with actual policies the policies that bernie sanders has presented are not in line with the current government, actually donalds trumps policies are way more in line with the current gov than bernies are outside of immigration when was america 'great', what was happening politically that you want to get back to exactly? what period, what decade? please. be specific. this is about the election of a person to the highest office in america, you need more than vague words like 'great' and 'tough' there's actual problems happening in [B] reality[/B], that actual humans are living through. your concepts of your countries image is entirely superficial.

the U.S. is sooooooo far from being a third world nation the U.S. is one of the richest countries on earth lmao

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49714857]So far, the government Sanders has been a part of has succeeded in making us the stupidest, most hated nation on the planet.[/QUOTE] i know right, what a wild 180 from when George W. Bush was president

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;49714823] lmao tell me, how do you think ... shouting about stocks while in a boxing ring or something?? please argue to me, how does him being tough: "solve homeless ... black americans" these are actual huge issues facing your country (and for most of them mine too), ... reality of people in your country.[/QUOTE] Wait, you aren't even an American? lmao All of those issues are primarily caused by corruption and incompetence. They do not exist for a lack of caring or effort in the part of the American people, but rather a mismanagement of their efforts and good will. A Trump presidency will, based on the personality and leadership patterns he's followed over the course of his life, solve these problems, by aggressively perusing the corrupt and the stupid, and removing them from the government. I clean up suicides and unattended deaths for a living. When a house smells like Decomp, you don't spray something to make it smell better. You remove the biohazard, and then clean. Once you remove the source of the problem, the corrupt and stupid, then the symptoms of the problem, homelessness through black americans, will naturally dissipate.

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;49714887]How can someone be this clueless.[/QUOTE] More like Trump fuels teenage boy's man power fantasies in all probability. I can't imagine why else someone would support Trump here on FP (basing on the fact that an overwhelming majority of the site's users are teenagers and it's statistically likely SaltyWaters is as well). [editline]10th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49714905] I clean up suicides and unattended deaths for a living. When a house smells like Decomp, you don't spray something to make it smell better. You remove the biohazard, and then clean. [/QUOTE] Really missing the :wtc: emote