Bernie and Donald are already competing for voters - Polidicks

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49715197]In the time I've spent on this forum, I've mostly come to the conclusion that this is the blandest group of people I've ever encountered online.[/quote] [QUOTE=Atlascore;49715203]That post wasn't only directed at you, there are people being dicks on both sides here, these SH threads always seem to become shit-flinging contests the moment anybody goes against the popular opinion, I'm just getting sick of it.[/QUOTE] I know there's not a log out button but it doesn't mean you guys have to come back to FP if you don't care for it :v: [QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49715197] Sanders hasn't done much of anything to stop corruption in the past, and according to everyone I'm arguing with, he's fucking great in comparison to the rest of the politicians. So a man with a proven track record of failure and saying all kinds of good shit is running for president, and you expect me to be impressed? Wait, you aren't even an american why am I arguing with you.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry, but what experience exactly does Trump have in stopping corruption in the past that makes him such a superior candidate? Majority of Sander's campaign is on corruption while Trump complains about artificial issues like China and Mexico and talks about the Islamic State as if it actually poses an existential threat to the United States. And a person's ethnicity or nationality really plays no part in their knowledge of the history or policies of the candidates. Unless you've personally spent the past few decades with Trump and Sanders yourself, then you've learned [I]all[/I] about their policies and history from reading about them - the same as anyone else here, even if they're not American. Not to mention that the flagdog system has a known history of showing the wrong flag. I was once from Brazil in a post last year, oddly.

[QUOTE=CrumbleShake;49715152]Dude, you don't sound like you know much about the structure of American politics. A single Senator has next to no actual power, to exercise that power and get progressive bills passed, you have to be an excellent negotiator and a very active senator. Bernie is precisely that. Worst of all, to act like one independent senator with unconventional (for the US) politics is partly to blame in America's poor reputation, you must have no idea what you're talking about. The US' awful reputation is down to failed interventionalism, and the worst public services (education, healthcare) in the developed world, both of which Trump would make worse (through shrinking government spending, and by advocating more attacks on the middle east) and Bernie would improve - his approach to ISIS is to work diplomatically to develop and support an arab coalition against ISIS, thus not feeding IS' narrative of 'muslims vs the west,' and also he supports curbing tax avoidance and making taxes far more progressive and spending that on vastly improving healthcare and education. On the world stage, Trump is seen as an absolute joke, by the way. He's not going to do shit to restore the US' reputation. Based on what sorry? He's really quite unpopular with most of America. Okay I don't think you're legit any more. If this is genuinely your attitude, you're a lost cause. The sad thing is, this is the attitude of most Trump supporters. They don't care how the system works, and they don't care what people's policies are, they just want to hear their apathy and their anger reduced into sound bites, no matter how embarrassingly incompetent he is.[/QUOTE] This is much better. You are one of the better posters, though you aren't an American and thus have very little skin in the game. A single senator has the capacity to entirely change the structure of the Government. McCarthy is an excellent example of the power a single senator has. Doesn't matter what he did with the power, he serves as an excellent reminder of what a single person was able to accomplish. So what has Sanders done that is really all that impressive? He's just gone with the flow while speaking out against it. He's been a part of it all, but I guess he just didn't like it? If he's so against corruption, why hasn't he been in the news for decades, or even years as an outspoken and energetic senator? He's just not that impressive. He's saying all kinds of good shit, but there's no evidence to support his ability to follow through.

[QUOTE=CrumbleShake;49715208] You're supporting someone with 0 experience in politics.[/QUOTE] I disagree. He himself admits being able to use money to generate "pull" for his own interests. Just because it wasn't public, doesn't mean he hasn't dabbled in the machiavellian arts.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49715197]I never really paid attention to your age or personal lives. In the time I've spent on this forum, I've mostly come to the conclusion that this is the blandest group of people I've ever encountered online. Sanders hasn't done much of anything to stop corruption in the past, and according to everyone I'm arguing with, he's fucking great in comparison to the rest of the politicians. So a man with a proven track record of failure and saying all kinds of good shit is running for president, and you expect me to be impressed? Wait, you aren't even an american why am I arguing with you.[/QUOTE]Sanders has been protesting various forms of government corruption since he got started in politics, his path has led him to the position where he can do something about it, with the help of like minded people and voters. the issues of corruption are systematic, to remove them and improve upon them you have to pass legislation from a position of power and with support of the people, and in turn elected officials. what has Trump done in the time he got involved as a player to the path he has found himself on now? what are examples of him being against corruption within the government when it comes to corporate influences? Bernie has at least voted against this, what has Trump done? you can't say bernie has been part of the system when Trump is a literal businessman-real estate-landlord, what system is he in? please, continue to focus on the person (either me or Trump) rather than having to talk about actual policies. why would I not care about America? the last few wars we were in together were on the behest of people in the American and British power class, we sell the same weapons to the same people, we spy on the same people. our corporations work together closely, our financial instituitions work together closely. the nationality of a person has nothing to do with what they can or cannot know. [editline]10th February 2016[/editline] stop complimenting people on the quality of their posts and actually respond to specific issues good lord

[QUOTE=da space core;49715233] There was another thread completely derailed by some guy who thought torture was "beautiful" and refused to acknowledge practically every study in existence that proved that "enhanced interrogation" does not work at all. [/QUOTE] Unsurprisingly, that poster was also a [I]very[/I] avid Trump supporter. [editline]10th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Daysofwinter;49715245]I disagree. He himself admits being able to use money to generate "pull" for his own interests. Just because it wasn't public, doesn't mean he hasn't dabbled in the machiavellian arts.[/QUOTE] Following the words of Machiavelli isn't exactly something I would find as a positive trait in a politician.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49715242]This is much better. You are one of the better posters, though you aren't an American and thus have very little skin in the game. A single senator has the capacity to entirely change the structure of the Government. McCarthy is an excellent example of the power a single senator has. Doesn't matter what he did with the power, he serves as an excellent reminder of what a single person was able to accomplish. So what has Sanders done that is really all that impressive? He's just gone with the flow while speaking out against it. He's been a part of it all, but I guess he just didn't like it? If he's so against corruption, why hasn't he been in the news for decades, or even years as an outspoken and energetic senator? He's just not that impressive. He's saying all kinds of good shit, but there's no evidence to support his ability to follow through.[/QUOTE] Wow you think someone manipulating a wide spread fear is something to look up to and embrace no wonder you don't care if you live in a fascist state you don't even know enough about your own history to even understand what McCarthy was doing and why he was so "powerful". It sure as fuck was not his personal charisma. It was certainly his ability to use a prevalent wide spread fear, turn in to 11, and manipulate people. of course you think this is wonderful but it's really not.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49715255] Following the words of Machiavelli isn't exactly something I would find as a positive trait in a politician.[/QUOTE] I didn't mean he followed the ideals of the prince. I meant he dabbled in politics. Just not in an official or public capacity. I could've said dark arts, but that may have confused some people.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;49715276]Those harsh responses accomplish nothing, people become defensive and further entrenched in their opinions, it just devolves into arguing for the sake of arguing because neither side relents.[/QUOTE]why is he not responding to specific things when the posts aren't harsh? 3 times he's mentioned my home country just because we surprisingly face some of the same issues. i asked him to expand on some issues, talk about them specifically and he just removes words from my post & then insults me? how is that not the harsh post.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;49715276]Those harsh responses accomplish nothing, people become defensive and further entrenched in their opinions, it just devolves into arguing for the sake of arguing because neither side relents.[/QUOTE] And when people are exceedingly nice and try and get their point across calmly, rationally, and intelligently, you'd think it would just fix it, and the conversation would go well but that isn't always the case. Just look at this thread. Any valid, intelligent, calm response is ignored because why? They're too hard to argue with so you always have the people take the low hanging fruit of "Stop attacking me personally".

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49715242]This is much better. You are one of the better posters, though you aren't an American and thus have very little skin in the game.[/quote] I know you posted this before I posted mine, but I'll say again here: A person's ethnicity or nationality really plays no part in their knowledge of the history or policies of the candidates. Unless you've personally spent the past few decades with Trump and Sanders yourself, then you've learned all about their policies and history from reading about them - the same as anyone else here, even if they're not American. [QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49715242]So what has Sanders done that is really all that impressive? He's just gone with the flow while speaking out against it. He's been a part of it all, but I guess he just didn't like it? If he's so against corruption, why hasn't he been in the news for decades, or even years as an outspoken and energetic senator? [/QUOTE] I never knew lack of media attention = going with the flow. IIRC, Sanders has had a long history with corruption as one of his core things in regard to policy, he just lacks the media attention of it because hey - there's 99 other Senators out there, plus a few hundred Congressmen and a President, not to mention all the appointed positions like Attorney General that get into the news sometimes. It's not surprising an overwhelming majority of people in government are unknown beyond the areas that elected them regardless of their policies.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;49715276]Those harsh responses accomplish nothing, people become defensive and further entrenched in their opinions, it just devolves into arguing for the sake of arguing because neither side relents.[/QUOTE] Again, arguing with walls can become a hostile work environment. Proceed with caution.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;49715276]Those harsh responses accomplish nothing, people become defensive and further entrenched in their opinions, it just devolves into arguing for the sake of arguing because neither side relents.[/QUOTE] I'm not quite sure how pointing out what's been obvious for years here will change anything, but okay.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49715241]I know there's not a log out button but it doesn't mean you guys have to come back to FP if you don't care for it :v: I'm sorry, but what experience exactly does Trump have in stopping corruption in the past that makes him such a superior candidate? Majority of Sander's campaign is on corruption while Trump complains about artificial issues like China and Mexico and talks about the Islamic State as if it actually poses an existential threat to the United States. [/QUOTE] Trump's entire life has been managing corruption in his own businesses. The fact that he's been able to build businesses successfully, speaks for his ability to stop and remove corrupt elements. I have some level of concern for the posters on FP, which is why I keep coming back. The world is rapidly changing, and nobody else seems to care enough about any of you to tell you the truth about anything.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49715321]Trump's entire life has been managing corruption in his own businesses. The fact that he's been able to build businesses successfully, speaks for his ability to stop and remove corrupt elements. [/quote] Still waiting for those 3 examples of corruption and the specific ways Trump has talked about correcting them. [QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49715321]I have some level of concern for the posters on FP, which is why I keep coming back. The world is rapidly changing, and nobody else seems to care enough about any of you to tell you the truth about anything.[/QUOTE] You haven't told us a fucking thing, you're just spouting the same [I]generalized[/I] and [I]vague[/I] rhetoric like a broken record. If you're looking to convert us to following someone you admittedly wouldn't care if he's a fascist or not, go proselytize somewhere else because this isn't /pol/

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49715321]Trump's entire life has been managing corruption in his own businesses. The fact that he's been able to build businesses successfully, speaks for his ability to stop and remove corrupt elements. I have some level of concern for the posters on FP, which is why I keep coming back. The world is rapidly changing, and nobody else seems to care enough about any of you to tell you the truth about anything.[/QUOTE] No, it really fucking hasn't. He's run a business, not rooted out corruption. He's had to deal with delegation, not with being the sniffer, not with doing the work himself, he delegates. The fact you think he's super qualified for the job without him actually having any qualifications for the job is ridiculous. Pal, you need to wake the fuck up. The world is not what you think it is. I live in Canada, is my socialist nightmare falling apart around me? No, no it isn't. Even in a very bad economic climate in terms of our dollar, we're still doing well as a socialist hellscape. How you really think you have some keys to the kingdom, some answers from up on high that no one else might have, is really one of the most self important, self deluded things I've ever heard.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49715321][B]Trump's entire life has been managing corruption in his own businesses. The fact that he's been able to build businesses successfully, speaks for his ability to stop and remove corrupt elements. [/B] I have some level of concern for the posters on FP, which is why I keep coming back. The world is rapidly changing, and nobody else seems to care enough about any of you to tell you the truth about anything.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/31/politics/trump-mob-mafia/[/url] Yeah. Might want to try reading it. Also. [QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49715321]I have some level of concern for the posters on FP, which is why I keep coming back. [B]The world is rapidly changing, and nobody else seems to care enough about any of you to tell you the truth about anything.[/B][/QUOTE] You. Are. Delusional.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49715321]Trump's entire life has been managing corruption in his own businesses. The fact that he's been able to build businesses successfully, speaks for his ability to stop and remove corrupt elements. I have some level of concern for the posters on FP, which is why I keep coming back. The world is rapidly changing, and nobody else seems to care enough about any of you to tell you the truth about anything.[/QUOTE]what does managing corruption in a business have to do with corporations corrupting the political process with money? what experience in his managing the corruption of a business will help him pass legislation and gather support for stop corruption within the wealth class? why would you not want to express the positions of the person you're supporting!!

Like i'm 99% sure you're a troll because you; 1) dodge serious replies 2) create entire fictions as a response 3) you use nothing but vague buzzwords to describe the issues you see coming up 4) you're not very well acquainted with words like "facism" certainly not enough to be throwing them around But I always want to give people who are entrenched in their view the benefit of the doubt, but at a certain point I just feel like you're taking me for a ride.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49715367]Like i'm 99% sure you're a troll because you; 1) dodge serious replies 2) create entire fictions as a response 3) you use nothing but vague buzzwords to describe the issues you see coming up 4) you're not very well acquainted with words like "facism" certainly not enough to be throwing them around But I always want to give people who are entrenched in their view the benefit of the doubt, but at a certain point I just feel like you're taking me for a ride.[/QUOTE]live for the thrill

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49713786] Because he's old, and pretty soft. There's nothing about him that's intimidating. [/QUOTE] We want our leaders to be intimidating? What? Why?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;49715295] I never knew lack of media attention = going with the flow. IIRC, Sanders has had a long history with corruption as one of his core things in regard to policy, he just lacks the media attention of it because hey - there's 99 other Senators out there, plus a few hundred Congressmen and a President, not to mention all the appointed positions like Attorney General that get into the news sometimes. It's not surprising an overwhelming majority of people in government are unknown beyond the areas that elected them regardless of their policies.[/QUOTE] Right, and he hasn't accomplished anything of note. If he had, if he was really getting things done, we'd have heard about him years ago. [QUOTE=benzi2k7;49715286]why is he not responding to specific things when the posts aren't harsh? 3 times he's mentioned my home country just because we surprisingly face some of the same issues. i asked him to expand on some issues, talk about them specifically and he just removes words from my post & then insults me? how is that not the harsh post.[/QUOTE] You made it a point that you weren't an American, I hadn't noticed till you brought it up. [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49715268]Wow you think someone manipulating a wide spread fear is something to look up to and embrace no wonder you don't care if you live in a fascist state you don't even know enough about your own history to even understand what McCarthy was doing and why he was so "powerful". It sure as fuck was not his personal charisma. It was certainly his ability to use a prevalent wide spread fear, turn in to 11, and manipulate people. of course you think this is wonderful but it's really not.[/QUOTE] McCarthy was powerful because he had actual ability as a leader. He was able to peruse his goals to a ridiculously effective degree. Sanders has spent much of his life ineffectively attempting things, and never truly succeeding.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49715321]Trump's entire life has been managing corruption in his own businesses. The fact that he's been able to build businesses successfully, speaks for his ability to stop and remove corrupt elements. I have some level of concern for the posters on FP, which is why I keep coming back. The world is rapidly changing, and nobody else seems to care enough about any of you to tell you the truth about anything.[/QUOTE] I got to say though, Trump seems well informed on the European Migrant Crisis, and he is being more realistic about it than the majority of the EU politicians and most of the Western European governments. If Trump clinches the US Presidency, it would probably lead to a massive political swift in Western European politics. Which we might be in dire need of considering how incompetent the current Western European governments and the EU are in handling this crisis.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49715384]Right, and he hasn't accomplished anything of note. If he had, if he was really getting things done, we'd have heard about him years ago. You made it a point that you weren't an American, I hadn't noticed till you brought it up. McCarthy was powerful because he had actual ability as a leader. He was able to peruse his goals to a ridiculously effective degree. Sanders has spent much of his life ineffectively attempting things, and never truly succeeding.[/QUOTE] If you just want a despot to be your leader, then please don't stay in america. Go to north korea. There's a despot leader there. One who leads through strength, military power, murder, manipulation, etc. America doesn't want a despot. You do. Stop acting like you're really that in touch with america.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49715242]This is much better. You are one of the better posters, though you aren't an American and thus have very little skin in the game. A single senator has the capacity to entirely change the structure of the Government. McCarthy is an excellent example of the power a single senator has. Doesn't matter what he did with the power, he serves as an excellent reminder of what a single person was able to accomplish. So what has Sanders done that is really all that impressive? He's just gone with the flow while speaking out against it. He's been a part of it all, but I guess he just didn't like it? If he's so against corruption, why hasn't he been in the news for decades, or even years as an outspoken and energetic senator? He's just not that impressive. He's saying all kinds of good shit, but there's no evidence to support his ability to follow through.[/QUOTE] I studied American politics at college, and as a European there's a lot at stake in this election, doesn't matter that I'm not American myself. We actually studied Bernie in a fair amount of depth, way before he was running for President, because of what an interesting politician he is. There's a difference between using your political platform to leverage mass anti-communist hysteria to influence public opinion for the worse as McCarthy did, and attempting to pass bills that are further to the left of almost all of congress, against massive corporate lobbying as the single solitary self-professed democratic socialist in the whole of Congress. Especially when you're given next to no media coverage, from being so anti establishment. Hysteria is more effective at mobilising people than hope, unfortunately. Most of what Bernie talks about and the bills he puts to congress are popular with the general public, Congress is just too much of a roadblock. Within congress, Sanders was fighting an impossible job. As president, with the mandate of a general election under his belt, he can hopefully do an awful lot. He'll have a heck of a job fighting congress, but there's congressional elections coming up as well. If he were president, I imagine we'd see a lot of executive action to curb campaign finance laws. That's a very optimistic viewpoint though, and there's not that much chance he'll get in.

McCarthy was powerful because the USSR was in existence. If McCarthy didn't have a boogie man to use as his leverage, we'd never remember who he is.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49715384]You made it a point that you weren't an American, I hadn't noticed till you brought it up.[/QUOTE]no, i said [quote]these are actual huge issues facing your country (and for most of them mine too)[/quote] you proceeded to say: [quote]'Wait, you aren't even an American? lmao'[/quote] [quote]'Wait, you aren't even an american why am I arguing with you.'[/quote] [quote]'You made it a point that you weren't an American'[/quote] the point I brought up was that you are facing issues, and my country is facing issues too. you proceeded to make it a point that because i am not american i not worth arguing with. your words, not mine.

[QUOTE=SaltyWaters;49715384] McCarthy was powerful because he had actual ability as a leader. He was able to peruse his goals to a ridiculously effective degree. Sanders has spent much of his life ineffectively attempting things, and never truly succeeding.[/QUOTE] Is your only example of a "good leader" a man who led a witch hunt and ruined the lives of people based on the mere suspicion of their political affiliations.

Who's tougher? The guy who got 7.6 million from Daddy Or the guy who spent 40 years fighting tooth and nail just to have the right to be the only socialist, independent in an entire nation, that literally hated him for being "socialist".

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49715404]McCarthy was powerful because the USSR was in existence. If McCarthy didn't have a boogie man to use as his leverage, we'd never remember who he is.[/QUOTE] There's a reason McCarthyism means what it means. That is not a person to look on as an example.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;49715433]I never said his posts weren't harsh either. As to why, who knows? maybe he's have a bad day and needs to vent, or he's just terrible at communicating with people. Regardless, bringing yourself down to his level is just making it worse for everybody involved.[/QUOTE] He isn't venting, he's ~telling us the truth~