Fez 2 announced - Polidicks

You guys are just literally judging the game by its cover. I can't remember the last game I've played where I had to keep a notebook and pen to write down what appeared to be a clue to a puzzle that only led to more questions than answers. The game's appeal comes from the zeitgeist of solving these puzzles. Just a few years ago when the Portal 2 ARG shit started, everyone got so deeply involved in it that it essentially became a hysteria. Yet, when a game creates something similar but on a smaller scale, everyone's like, "fuck that". The game was marketed as being a cute little platformer, when in fact it was purposefully misleading everyone into thinking that's what it was. I'm done though, people can obviously have their own opinions, and I can have mine. No one's wrong, etc. etc.

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;41022273]Not if it is impossible to fail. There's no punishment in Fez and that's the biggest problem with it. I thought this with the demo, and even the Best Gamers cover that too.[/QUOTE] You haven't run into some of the puzzles in the game then. They're so overly hard to do even without failure being an option that adding in failure would basically turn most people off of even finishing the game. Try giving [url=http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwc616LXVve5mZ3qOyHY9bGYD3tjsHbDG]this[/url] a watch. It better shows Fez than some reviews. Just because a game doesn't have any in-game sort of failure doesn't mean it's no longer challenging. The game is still fairly often very challenging and at times overly so even without the possibility of failure being anything more than missing a jump several times in a row or being unable to figure out a puzzle.

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;41022273]Not if it is impossible to fail. There's no punishment in Fez and that's the biggest problem with it. I thought this with the demo, and even the Best Gamers cover that too.[/QUOTE] Why would you need to punish the player? If the player falls, they don't progress. Its not like it says "Is this too hard? Let's skip it." It just doesn't boot you to the start menu or make you reload the save. What's the difference?

Cool, looking forward to it. I played a bit of the first and enjoyed it, very good music too

Oh boy I can't wait to wait through another 5 year dev cycle only to be told to choke on it afterwards

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;41022273]Not if it is impossible to fail. There's no punishment in Fez and that's the biggest problem with it. I thought this with the demo, and even the Best Gamers cover that too.[/QUOTE] the fact that there's no punishment does not mean it's not a game. having no punishment just means that it has a different approach to making a puzzle game. perhaps it's a way to make the person playing the game actually feel like they're progressing and as such can appeal to a few more people other than 'hardcore gamers'. I dislike not Fez, but entirely the game creator. if he had a non-shitty attitude and stopped being a total cunt to his fans, I wouldn't mind buying Fez 2. you don't like the game, that's fine, but there is no reason for you to question why other people buy it. EDIT: Why are we even having such an argument about this? We should probably stop before this becomes a shitstorm.

[QUOTE=Omilinon;41022363]Why are we even having such an argument about this? We should probably stop before this becomes a shitstorm.[/QUOTE] SHUT UP I WANT TO BE MAD

[QUOTE=Take_Opal;41022256]There is something very special about this game. The code that the entire game is based around is a mechanic you do not see anymore in games. It has some really fucking clever puzzles in it too. And the pixel art isn't actually pixel art, everything is actually 3D. [img]http://www.gamers-association.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/2180635-wiggle_b_s.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] you mean just like how call of duty ghosts has revolutionary fish ai that "you do not see anymore" in games?

[QUOTE=SFC003;41022436]you mean just like how call of duty ghosts has revolutionary fish ai that "you do not see anymore" in games?[/QUOTE] Oh please... This is just going to start turning into an argument about how games were better when they had to be played on a CRT (which would be right).

[QUOTE=Take_Opal;41022324]Why would you need to punish the player? If the player falls, they don't progress. Its not like it says "Is this too hard? Let's skip it." It just doesn't boot you to the start menu or make you reload the save. What's the difference?[/QUOTE] Because punishment is part of any game. When you cut that out you're left with an easy game with no real consequences. Sure, if I'm playing a game and there are enemies that are holding me back I'll get pissed off. But part of the fun is failing and retrying until you're able to succeed and move on. It's about overcoming the odds. Fez doesn't have that at all. Dying isn't a problem since you instantly respawn from whatever platform you fell off from and have infinite lives. And that is, even if it's possible to die. None of the platforming is even difficult in the first place. What you're left with is a game with no challenge other than a few hard puzzles. If you're going to advertise you're game as being a puzzle platformer with some stupid gimmick at least put effort in the damn platformer aspect. You're just wasting time walking around an empty world to get to the next puzzle. Snore.

[QUOTE=SFC003;41022436]you mean just like how call of duty ghosts has revolutionary fish ai that "you do not see anymore" in games?[/QUOTE] Uhh, no? That's not really the same thing but whatever.

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;41022483]You're just wasting time walking around a world to get to the next puzzle. Snore.[/QUOTE] You could insert so many game titles before that sentence, though.

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;41022483]None of the platforming is even difficult in the first place.[/QUOTE] You haven't played the game! There is a shit ton of complex platforming and you've never seen it because you played the demo. In regards to the rest of your post... [quote=T-Sonar.0]Sure, if I'm playing a game and there are enemies that are holding me back I'll get pissed off. But part of the fun is failing and retrying until you're able to succeed and move on. [/quote] There is literally no difference between "Man, this enemy keeps killing me" and "Man, this platforming section is hard and I keep falling off." Your argument just isn't there dude.

[QUOTE=Seth2492;41022050]Why should it be? The game, regardless of how you feel about the creator, shouldn't be judged by those merits alone. It's foolish.[/QUOTE] Because if Genghis Khan discovered the cure for cancer everyone would hate it and berate people for taking it

[QUOTE=Take_Opal;41022527]There is literally no difference between "Man, this enemy keeps killing me" and "Man, this platforming section is hard and I keep falling off." Your argument just isn't there dude.[/QUOTE] And I previously stated there's no difficulty in Fez's platforming. They're easy platforms to get to and, even if they weren't, you can't die and are just respawned back to where you fell from.

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;41022575]And I previously stated there's no difficulty in Fez's platforming.[/QUOTE] Also as previously stated, Fez isn't a platformer.

[QUOTE=Seth2492;41022581]Also as previously stated, Fez isn't a platformer.[/QUOTE] Then don't advertise it as such. [img]http://puu.sh/3eWuJ.png[/img]

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;41022575]And I previously stated there's no difficulty in Fez's platforming.[/QUOTE] You haven't played the game though. You literally cannot know that for yourself. You read the first chapter of a book and said the ending was shit.

Lets hope they add more funny memes to the next game

I can't wait to turn the screen perspective and jump around like a faggot for a second time.

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;41022600]Then don't advertise it as such. [img]http://puu.sh/3eWuJ.png[/img][/QUOTE] You're right, let me categorize the game under the 'What The Fuck Do All These Symbols Mean' category on Steam. Just because it has platforming aspects in it doesn't make it a platforming game.

[QUOTE=Take_Opal;41022608]You haven't played the game though. You literally cannot know that for yourself. You read the first chapter of a book and said the ending was shit.[/QUOTE] You keep saying that but that's no a real argument. It doesn't change the fact that it is impossible to fail on the platforming because there's no punishment for screwing up. The game holds your hand and just wants you explore how "pretty" it all is with the gimmicky rotational world/camera. It comes off as pretentious which isn't surprising considering how full of shit Phil is.

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;41022483]Because punishment is part of any game. When you cut that out you're left with an easy game with no real consequences. Sure, if I'm playing a game and there are enemies that are holding me back I'll get pissed off. But part of the fun is failing and retrying until you're able to succeed and move on. It's about overcoming the odds. Fez doesn't have that at all. Dying isn't a problem since you instantly respawn from whatever platform you fell off from and have infinite lives. And that is, even if it's possible to die. None of the platforming is even difficult in the first place. What you're left with is a game with no challenge other than a few hard puzzles. If you're going to advertise you're game as being a puzzle platformer with some stupid gimmick at least put effort in the damn platformer aspect. You're just wasting time walking around an empty world to get to the next puzzle. Snore.[/QUOTE] The entire game is basically one massive puzzle. That puzzle and each of its sub-puzzles are the challenge making death an unnecessary thing. You can't die or fail in a game like Myst, does that make it suddenly not a game? No, it does not. It means the game has no internal method of handling failure. The failure boils down to "did you figure out this puzzle?" and if you didn't then nothing happens until you do.

Fez is pretty boring, I fell asleep when I played it.

[QUOTE=Seth2492;41022629]You're right, let me categorize the game under the 'What The Fuck Do All These Symbols Mean' category on Steam. Just because it has platforming aspects in it doesn't make it a platforming game.[/QUOTE] What kind of counter argument is that? The category, "Puzzle," exists you know.

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;41022683]What kind of counter argument is that? The category, "Puzzle," exists you know.[/QUOTE] So? Half Life 2 had physics puzzles in it, yet it's not considered to be a puzzle game.

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;41022648]You keep saying that but that's no a real argument. It doesn't change the fact that it is impossible to fail on the platforming because there's no punishment for screwing up. The game holds your hand and just wants you explore how "pretty" it all is with the gimmicky rotational world/camera. It comes off as pretentious which isn't surprising considering how full of shit Phil is.[/QUOTE] Punishment does not just equal booting you to the beginning of a game or the menu screen. I don't understand why you think that is the only way to punish a player. The fact that the player is fucking up and not progressing at all because he's fucking up is virtually the same thing.

Fez would be a good game if it was finished; he took a few starting concepts and then decided to call it art instead of filling it out. It's hard to argue that Fez isn't atmospheric as fuck at times. It's just the game equivalent of finding a great spot in the wilderness and saying "What a nice town this is. :downs:"

[QUOTE=Seth2492;41022695]So? Half Life 2 had physics puzzles in it, yet it's not considered to be a puzzle game.[/QUOTE] Except, you know, HL2 is an FPS for the most part. If HL2 went the same route as Fez it'd falsely label itself as a first person shooter with nothing to actually shoot at. Even Phil has labeled Fez as a platformer, so, you know, this stupid, "It's not meant to be the genre it's labeled as" argument is pretty shit. [editline]13th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Take_Opal;41022708]Punishment does not just equal booting you to the beginning of a game or the menu screen. I don't understand why you think that is the only way to punish a player. The fact that the player is fucking up and not progressing at all because he's fucking up is virtually the same thing.[/QUOTE] I never said booting you to the beginning was the best way to punish the player. Just put some damn challenge in the platforming so it isn't a piss easy walk in the park.

[QUOTE=Alice3173;41022650]The entire game is basically one massive puzzle. That puzzle and each of its sub-puzzles are the challenge making death an unnecessary thing. You can't die or fail in a game like Myst, does that make it suddenly not a game? No, it does not. It means the game has no internal method of handling failure. The failure boils down to "did you figure out this puzzle?" and if you didn't then nothing happens until you do.[/QUOTE] Actually you can fail in Myst III, and even if you win [sp]it's only by leaving a man to die just because he wanted to see his family again[/sp]