Obama Adviser: Afghanistan In No Immediate Danger Of Falling - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;17680829]I'm quite sure our large military and government organizations have come up with a better idea than merely, "Okay, move this army into this spot. Problem goes away." I doubt the generals will just have the troops "sit there", and put them to work.[/QUOTE] It takes a shit load of planning to effectively occupy a country. It's become apparent by what's been happening in Iraq and Afghanistan as of late that they didn't plan it correctly. They need a real strategy besides "send me some more troops and I'll wing it".

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;17681040]I'm not sure either, but I thought he fled the country toward the end of the war?[/QUOTE] Never mind , apparently they were involved in it or gave the green light. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ngo_Dinh_Diem[/url] Not sure if this was the pres you were talking about.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;17681086]It takes a shit load of planning to effectively occupy a country. It's become apparent by what's been happening in Iraq and Afghanistan as of late that they didn't plan it correctly. They need a real strategy besides "send me some more troops and I'll wing it".[/QUOTE] You're still making it sound as if they're just sitting the troops there and nothing more. They do have a plan and strategy, whether its effective or not is the current problem. There aren't any "correct plans", only ones that worked and ones that did not. There's no way they could of foresaw that the current plan would not of worked, else they would not of put it into practice. They believed, as with all plans that are made, that it would work.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;17681086]It takes a shit load of planning to effectively occupy a country. It's become apparent by what's been happening in Iraq and Afghanistan as of late that they didn't plan it correctly. They need a real strategy besides "send me some more troops and I'll wing it".[/QUOTE] That's not The Afghanistan War strategy right now. The US Govt is thinking about hiring local warlords to help cut off supplies to the Taliban and garner support from the locals. This also works well for the reason that it would be well within limits of respecting local tribes' boundaries. Also, we've made all air strikes near residential districts illegal, and our top priority now is defending the locals. Sounds like a good start to me.

[QUOTE=billeh!;17681187]That's not The Afghanistan War strategy right now. The US Govt is thinking about hiring local warlords to help cut off supplies to the Taliban and garner support from the locals. This also works well for the reason that it would be well within limits of respecting local tribes' boundaries. Also, we've made all air strikes near residential districts illegal, and our top priority now is defending the locals. Sounds like a good start to me.[/QUOTE] From what I heard on CNN, they're only considering using local warlords for help, but aren't currently doing it. But I might be mistaken.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;17681238]From what I heard on CNN, they're only considering using local warlords for help, but aren't currently doing it. But I might be mistaken.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=billeh!;17681187]That's not The Afghanistan War strategy right now. [b]The US Govt is thinking about[/b] hiring local warlords to help cut off supplies to the Taliban and garner support from the locals. This also works well for the reason that it would be well within limits of respecting local tribes' boundaries. Also, we've made all air strikes near residential districts illegal, and our top priority now is defending the locals. Sounds like a good start to me.[/QUOTE] You heard right. I hope they do it.

[QUOTE=billeh!;17681187]That's not The Afghanistan War strategy right now. The US Govt is thinking about hiring local warlords to help cut off supplies to the Taliban and garner support from the locals. This also works well for the reason that it would be well within limits of respecting local tribes' boundaries. Also, we've made all air strikes near residential districts illegal, and our top priority now is defending the locals. Sounds like a good start to me.[/QUOTE] That is an excellent start.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;17680428]Do the people of Afghanistan support the Taliban?[/QUOTE] They want us out, want to preserve their culture, and the Taliban are quite appealing to some with this in mind. Many Afghans see the US as simply another USSR trying to impose its interests and agenda. The Taliban do not have the support like the Vietnamese communists did, but it's very possible that that can change. The future of the war in Afghanistan is a bit of a cloudy one, but things still do not look very good for us. [quote=yawmwen;434343]You need 3 things during war, support, money, and logistics. We threw money at the war, but we never took care of getting support in the Vietnamese population, and we never quite figured out the Logistics of fighting a war against a bunch of well trained Guerrillas.[/quote] The problem was that it was impossible to garner the support of the Vietnamese because we, along with France and Britain, denied their independence even when Ho Chi Minh taking a pacifist approach. He hoped the recent independence granted to France's colonies would apply to him, as well. But when it didn't, that was when the communists took up arms and waged a war against the colonial french. The vietnamese war was hopeless from the start. We had little to no base of support, and couldn't win with conventional warfare. Afghanistan looks a little different, but not significantly. I think it will evolve into a war of garnering support from the population, who's squeezed between the US and the Taliban

[QUOTE=Conscript;17682388]They want us out, want to preserve their culture, and the Taliban are quite appealing to some with this in mind. Many Afghans see the US as simply another USSR trying to impose its interests and agenda. The Taliban do not have the support like the Vietnamese communists did, but it's very possible that that can change. The future of the war in Afghanistan is a bit of a cloudy one, but things still do not look very good for us.[/QUOTE] I highly doubt the Taliban can manage to pull together a mass of support. Acid attacks on school children dosent really help them in the pr department.

[QUOTE=Conscript;17682388]They want us out, want to preserve their culture, and the Taliban are quite appealing to some with this in mind. Many Afghans see the US as simply another USSR trying to impose its interests and agenda. The Taliban do not have the support like the Vietnamese communists did, but it's very possible that that can change. The future of the war in Afghanistan is a bit of a cloudy one, but things still do not look very good for us.[/QUOTE] But we're not trying to change their culture, we're helping them organize themselves into a free, democratic state.

Then again the Vietnam communist committed all sort of horrible shit. It still seems a bit different of a situation. [editline]07:55PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;17682595]But we're not trying to change their culture, we're helping them organize themselves into a free, democratic state.[/QUOTE] Propaganda spread by organizations like the taliban say different.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;17682595]But we're not trying to change their culture, we're helping them organize themselves into a free, democratic state.[/QUOTE] What's happening and what is perceived to be happening can be 2 radically different things.

[QUOTE=BusterBluth;17682630]Then again the Vietnam communist committed all sort of horrible shit. It still seems a bit different of a situation. [editline]07:55PM[/editline] Propaganda spread by organizations like the taliban say different.[/QUOTE] Just by using the term "propaganda" means you shouldn't believe what they're saying. [editline]06:58PM[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;17682652]What's happening and what is perceived to be happening can be 2 radically different things.[/QUOTE] Where have we eroded or destroyed a part of their culture? [editline]06:59PM[/editline] I mean, it's illegal to be anything but muslim in that nation, right? Which means we haven't forced them to accept religious freedom.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;17682700]Just by using the term "propaganda" means you shouldn't believe what they're saying. [/QUOTE] I'm not sure what you mean by this.

[QUOTE=BusterBluth;17682567]I highly doubt the Taliban can manage to pull together a mass of support. Acid attacks on school children dosent really help them in the pr department.[/QUOTE] Afghanistan has a very strong far-right conservative element. This is where the Taliban finds its own base [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;17682595]But we're not trying to change their culture, we're helping them organize themselves into a free, democratic state.[/QUOTE] Considering its history with establishing 'free' and 'democratic' states, I would trust the US last with that responsibility.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;17682700]Just by using the term "propaganda" means you shouldn't believe what they're saying. [editline]06:58PM[/editline] Where have we eroded or destroyed a part of their culture? [editline]06:59PM[/editline] I mean, it's illegal to be anything but muslim in that nation, right? Which means we haven't forced them to accept religious freedom.[/QUOTE] I know, but having a foreign army occupied in your homeland helps to distort the truth.

[QUOTE=BusterBluth;17682740]I'm not sure what you mean by this.[/QUOTE] By definition, propaganda should not be believed because it generally distorts facts to make who ever is using look better and superior, whether it be superior in military or on the "moral high ground". Sorry if I don't make sense sometimes, I'm a bit sleep deprived at the moment. [editline]07:08PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Conscript;17682749] Considering its history with establishing 'free' and 'democratic' states, I would trust the US last with that responsibility.[/QUOTE] South Korea is doing well. Japan is doing well. Germany is doing well. Italy is doing well. I think our track record is fine.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;17682881]By definition, propaganda should not be believed because it generally distorts facts to make who ever is using look better and superior, whether it be superior in military or on the "moral high ground". Sorry if I don't make sense sometimes, I'm a bit sleep deprived at the moment. [editline]07:08PM[/editline][/quote] Yea but good propaganda is able to disguise itself. It doesn't seem like outright propaganda when done right. [quote]South Korea is doing well. Japan is doing well. Germany is doing well. Italy is doing well. I think our track record is fine.[/QUOTE] Iran and Mexico aren't doing so great either though.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;17682944]Yea but good propaganda is able to disguise itself. It doesn't seem like outright propaganda when done right. Iran and Mexico aren't doing so great either though.[/QUOTE] We never tried to establish free and democratic governments in those nations. We invaded Mexico in the mid-1800s over land, and we were fine with Shaw of Iran ruling because he was western-friendly.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;17683020]We never tried to establish free and democratic governments in those nations. We invaded Mexico in the mid-1800s over land, and we were fine with Shaw of Iran ruling because he was western-friendly.[/QUOTE] We didn't directly invade, but we made Mexico our bitch through treaties, and we took out the Shah in Iran for a more US friendly leader, but we all know how that turned out.

Oh wow, eight soldiers and two security die! We fear losing Afghanistan! This is what I don't like about America now-a-days, everyone is a coward or their scared of losing a war. Instead of just capturing Taliban and letting them live I think we should line those pussy ass car bombing cowards against a wall and inject their blood veins with battery acid. You [b] don't [/b] win a war by being peaceful ,and America needs to get a wake up call on that. You want to end this war? Then be a fucking man and end it by ending everyone of those Taliban fucks lives with a carpet bombing on their camp emplacements inside of cities.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;17683099]Oh wow, eight soldiers and two security die! We fear losing Afghanistan! This is what I don't like about America now-a-days, everyone is a coward or their scared of losing a war. Instead of just capturing Taliban and letting them live I think we should line those pussy ass car bombing cowards against a wall and inject their blood veins with battery acid. You [b] don't [/b] win a war by being peaceful ,and America needs to get a wake up call on that. You want to end this war? Then be a fucking man and end it by ending everyone of those Taliban fucks lives with a carpet bombing on their camp emplacements inside of cities.[/QUOTE] For one, most of these people on the Taliban's side are quite O.K. with death, and infact embrace it. I say that the worst torture would be to send them to a prison somewhere and make them read the bible. And for the carpet bombing plan...that's just not right, we can't bomb a city like that, if we start killing civilians then we run the risk of losing the support of the people, which is [b]not[/b] how you win a war.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;17682881] South Korea is doing well. Japan is doing well. Germany is doing well. Italy is doing well. I think our track record is fine.[/QUOTE] Ironically when we established west germany and south korea, both were aggressive and hostile to their communist counter-parts, and both openly talked of war and hostile annexation. South Korea itself for a long time was a dictatorship. I do not know much about Japan, as they hardly ever come up in discussions. But on another note, Italy's communists, who had more support then any other socialist party in europe at the time, came close to a victory in elections but were foiled by the CIA and a NATO program called Operation Gladio. A similar event occured in France. Other really nice stories of 'free and democratic' states include: The phillipines (who pretty were an american colony), Augusto Pinochet's Chile, Fulgencio Batista's Fascist Cuba, the various far-right states and groups in Central America we supported such as the El Salvadoran military government, Greece in the 40's and 50's, Iran and the Shah, many Caribbean nations such as Haiti and Costa Rica, Indonesia's fascist government, and a bit more notably Franco's fascist spain. The cold war brought out a truer and more disturbing character of US foreign policy. We supported almost anyone, even fascists, simply because they were anti-communist.