Chloe Sagal, indie developer who's campaign to save her own life was cancelled has attempted suicide
882 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Solomon;40629317]That 'thousands of dollars' *were* going to go to a lifechanging/saving operation.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but it wasn't the operation that was described on the funding page. She wasn't dying of "metal poisoning", It was and still is a scam.
[QUOTE=Thlis;40629350]Yeah but it wasn't the operation that was described on the funding page. She wasn't dying of "metal poisoning", It was and still is a scam.[/QUOTE]
You're correct. It was a scam. But if she had stated her real reason for needing the money, do you think she'd have gotten nearly as much as she did?
[QUOTE=Superkilll307;40629344]I read about what she wrote and yeah she sounds like a twat, But im sure it wasn't her sole opinion would you mind handing me a source to look at?[/QUOTE]
[url=http://transgriot.blogspot.com/2010/09/why-trans-community-hates-dr-janice-g.html]Here you go Ace.[/url]
They even link to the document she wrote for the whole thing.
[QUOTE=QueenSasha24;40629343]What happened to the amount of money not being the point? I thought you were arguing that insurance companies only cover things that keep you breathing.[/QUOTE]
Actually i was arguing that the cost to the Insurance companies and thus the people would be to great for it to be done on a wide scale, glasses cost only about a few hundred and could be deemed necessary to continued work so its good for the economy unless of course you find that being the wrong gender stops you from, to a large margin, from working then i will be willing to concede that point.
[QUOTE=Solomon;40629367]You're correct. It was a scam. But if she had stated her real reason for needing the money, do you think she'd have gotten nearly as much as she did?[/QUOTE]
Is that relevant? No one can say for certain but it isn't justification for claiming to be dying of "metal poisoning".
[QUOTE=gudman;40629399]"oh my god my nose is killing me, I have to change it's shape so bad. It's the same thing as dying of cancer"[/QUOTE]
Don't donate to this guy, I think he is actually using the money for hair plugs.
[QUOTE=Solomon;40629317]That 'thousands of dollars' *were* going to go to a lifechanging/saving operation.[/QUOTE]
The same way you can justify anything.
To the point of "oh my god my nose is killing me, I have to change it's shape so bad. It's the same thing as dying of cancer". Note that I'm over-exaggerating on purpose and not actually comparing sexual rearangement operation to neoplasty.
[QUOTE=Solomon;40629367]You're correct. It was a scam. But if she had stated her real reason for needing the money, do you think she'd have gotten nearly as much as she did?[/QUOTE]
I highly doubt she would have received much if she had said what she was using the money for in the first place, but that doesn't justify scamming people.
[QUOTE=gudman;40629399]The same way you can justify anything.
To the point of "oh my god my nose is killing me, I have to change it's shape so bad. It's the same thing as dying of cancer". Note that I'm over-exaggerating on purpose and not actually comparing sexual rearangement operation to neoplasty.[/QUOTE]
AFAIK people with really low self-esteem can sometimes have plastic surgery paid by the insurance, as long as it's minor.
After all, to the insurance company, you're nothing more than a investment.
[QUOTE=gudman;40629399]Note that I'm over-exaggerating on purpose and not actually comparing sexual rearangement operation to neoplasty.[/QUOTE]
Good, because it feels like in every thread about healthcare for trans women there's some guy who goes "I THINK MY NOSE LOOKS UGLY, WHY ISN'T IT MEDICALLY NECESSARY FOR ME TO GET SURGERY, HAH SEE THESE FREAKS DON'T ACTUALLY NEED THIS STUFF. I AM SO SMART."
[QUOTE=QueenSasha24;40629440]Good, because it feels like in every thread about healthcare for trans women there's some guy who goes "I THINK MY NOSE LOOKS UGLY, WHY ISN'T IT MEDICALLY NECESSARY FOR ME TO GET SURGERY, HAH SEE THESE FREAKS DON'T ACTUALLY NEED THIS STUFF. I AM SO SMART."[/QUOTE]
Honestly your the only person so far that has been calling transgendered freaks. Apart from one or two blatant troll posts at the beginning of the thread.
[QUOTE=Van-man;40629433]AFAIK people with really low self-esteem can sometimes have plastic surgery paid by the insurance, as long as it's minor.
After all, to the insurance company, you're nothing more than a investment.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=QueenSasha24;40629440]Good, because it feels like in every thread about healthcare for trans women there's some guy who goes "I THINK MY NOSE LOOKS UGLY, WHY ISN'T IT MEDICALLY NECESSARY FOR ME TO GET SURGERY, HAH SEE THESE FREAKS DON'T ACTUALLY NEED THIS STUFF. I AM SO SMART."[/QUOTE]
Guys I just specifically stated that I'm not comparing anything. It has nothing to do with insurance or else. I'm just disagreeing with the notion that scamming can be justified with "but it's life-saving too, why does it matter she lied a little bit?"
[QUOTE=QueenSasha24;40629384][url=http://transgriot.blogspot.com/2010/09/why-trans-community-hates-dr-janice-g.html]Here you go Ace.[/url]
They even link to the document she wrote for the whole thing.[/QUOTE]
Im sorry but it doesn't sate how it was received by the American government can you please link to something confirming the effective connection and that it was the sole consequence of the no reassignment surgery thing.
[QUOTE=gudman;40629476]Guys I just specifically stated that I'm not comparing anything. It has nothing to do with insurance or else. I'm just disagreeing with the notion that scamming can be justified with "but it's life-saving too, why does it matter she lied a little bit?"[/QUOTE]
And I think it can be justified with that.
[QUOTE=Thlis;40629469]Honestly your the only person so far that has been calling transgendered freaks. Apart from one or two blatant troll posts at the beginning of the thread.[/QUOTE]
Not talking about just this thread, but sure, lets discount every single transphobic asshole to be a "troll", even the guys in real-life that have called me a "tranny" or a "shemale"!
[QUOTE=Solomon;40629490]And I think it can be justified with that.[/QUOTE]
Sorry but your opinion < law.
[QUOTE=QueenSasha24;40629495]Not talking about just this thread, but sure, lets discount every single transphobic asshole to be a "troll", even the guys in real-life that have called me a "tranny" or a "shemale"![/QUOTE]
Well I am sorry to hear that, I don't know where you live so I can't take into account the amount of cultural stigma against transgendered people.
Wow, I am dumb. I forgot about the flags on posts. Still cant narrow down the stigma considering the differences between states.
Summing it up, almost everyone would agree that she should have the surgery, but the actual issue here is whether or not it's wrong that she misled people into giving her money for a different cause than the one she needed, right? I'm guessing most people would agree that she probably shouldn't have lied, but it's difficult because, had she told the truth, she probably would have raised much less. It seems bizarre that one should need to raise money for either operation in the first place, but let's not get into that.
[QUOTE=Thlis;40629498]Sorry but your opinion < law.[/QUOTE]
True that, mayne.
Not arguing that she didn't violate the law.
[QUOTE=Solomon;40629490]And I think it can be justified with that.[/QUOTE]
And I think that it can't be. Because it's wrong. Sexual rearangement is not required to continue breathing, blood-pumping and for your brain to function, as someone already noted. [b]Unlike[/b] urgent operation to cure a decease that is literally threatens to end your life very soon.
I'm not in any way underastimate the importance sexual rearangement operation has for transgendered people. Well, I probably am as I am not in their position. But I realise that it's of extreme importance. But the thing is... it's not the same thing at all. Crime is still a crime, no matter what.
[QUOTE=gudman;40629578]And I think that it can't be. Because it's wrong. Sexual rearangement is not required to continue breathing, blood-pumping and for your brain to function, as someone already noted. [b]Unlike[/b] urgent operation to cure a decease that is literally threatens to end your life very soon. [/QUOTE]
The unstable mental health caused by basically living a lie is gonna do that though.
[QUOTE=Superkilll307;40629127]The reason that gender reassignment isn't given as since its not life threatening that gives the person time to arrange their own funds so please don't call it life saving.[/QUOTE]
But to many transgender people out there, SRS is a life saving operation. People don't realize how deep the depression is in the mind of a transgender person. And what doesn't help is a lack of support, especially by the very people who said they'd love you no matter what. Not being able to transition/feel comfortable in your own skin, especially due to financial reasons, leaves a lot of trans people fighting as hard as they can until they just can't anymore and give up.
It's actually the reason you'll see a lot of transgirls doing sex work. Some don't want to, but they are forced to because nobody wants to hire transsexual people.
Now, if Chloe did lie, then shame on her. But if she has been struggling for a long time trying to find a way to feel comfortable in her body then I completely sympathize with her.
[QUOTE=Van-man;40629595]The unstable mental health caused by basically living a lie is gonna do that though.[/QUOTE]
Speaking as someone who has attempted suicide (backed out of it at the last moment) once, and has thoughts about it several times a week because of this, yeah, it can cause that.
She has probably set back trans relations another year.
[QUOTE=Van-man;40629595]The unstable mental health caused by basically living a lie is gonna do that though.[/QUOTE]
I realise that. But I don't think it's as inevitable as dying of a disease (mixed it up again with "decease" in several posts, sorry).
[QUOTE=Thlis;40629229]It's not the 1940s, there are tons of trans people on the internet and more people that are accepting of it.[/QUOTE]
Considering how everyone's first course of action was to demean and insult her for being trans doesn't tell you anything? Sure, there are more accepting people now but it's still just as bad as the 1940s. In fact, it's actually a little worse because the fire is starting to die down for the gays and now dickfaces are setting their sights on us.
Over the past year alone there have been threads on FP where there have been constant streams of shitposting against transsexuals just because someone posted an article relating to it.
Hell, the GMF is a primary example. Mods and Golds both participating in raiding the transgender thread and then taking it to their forum just to mock us. Even with the drop in discrimination, transgender people are way behind gays in terms of progression. It's only now starting to become more vocal.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("#3" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;40629674]Considering how everyone's first course of action was to demean and insult her for being trans doesn't tell you anything? Sure, there are more accepting people now but it's still just as bad as the 1940s. In fact, it's actually a little worse because the fire is starting to die down for the gays and now dickfaces are setting their sights on us.
Over the past year alone there have been threads on FP where there have been constant streams of shitposting against transsexuals just because someone posted an article relating to it.
Hell, the GMF is a primary example. Mods and Golds both participating in raiding the transgender thread and then taking it to their forum just to mock us. It's fucking disgusting.[/QUOTE]
Damn, I knew GMF was a hole, but... Well, I'm not so annoyed about gold being cash only now.
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;40629619]But to many transgender people out there, SRS is a life saving operation. People don't realize how deep the depression is in the mind of a transgender person. And what doesn't help is a lack of support, especially by the very people who said they'd love you no matter what. Not being able to transition/feel comfortable in your own skin, especially due to financial reasons, leaves a lot of trans people fighting as hard as they can until they just can't anymore and give up.
It's actually the reason you'll see a lot of transgirls doing sex work. Some don't want to, but they are forced to because nobody wants to hire transsexual people.
Now, if Chloe did lie, then shame on her. But if she has been struggling for a long time trying to find a way to feel comfortable in her body then I completely sympathize with her.[/QUOTE]
Im sure those things aren't all universal. I can sympathise with the group but its relevance on the fact that the surgery is just technically not life saving is a fact, the depression i hope can be helped to be worked out with therapy, but the surgery is so ostentatiously expensive insurance companies would be unable to cover the cost if they were to do it on a large scale, which would cause soaring costs in insurance. In a perfect world it would be covered under general Humane grounds but alas this is not a perfect world.
[QUOTE=Zambies!;40629653]She has probably set back trans relations another year.[/QUOTE]
If that is the case then that's more of society's fault. An entire movement shouldn't be ruined by one incident.
[QUOTE=QueenSasha24;40629495]Not talking about just this thread, but sure, lets discount every single transphobic asshole to be a "troll", even the guys in real-life that have called me a "tranny" or a "shemale"![/QUOTE]
Also did you get that link? About the Regan and Janice connection that is.
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;40629674]
Over the past year alone there have been threads on FP where there have been constant streams of shitposting against transsexuals just because someone posted an article relating to it.
Hell, the GMF is a primary example. Mods and Golds both participating in raiding the transgender thread and then taking it to their forum just to mock us. It's fucking disgusting.[/QUOTE]
Didn't know about that, well that's pretty shite and I had no idea that would be something seen on FP.
[QUOTE=Superkilll307;40629719]Im sure those things aren't all universal. I can sympathise with the group but its relevance on the fact that the surgery is just technically not life saving is a fact, the depression i hope can be helped to be worked out with therapy, but the surgery is so ostentatiously expensive insurance companies would be unable to cover the cost if they were to do it on a large scale, which would cause soaring costs in insurance. In a perfect world it would be covered under general Humane grounds but alas this is not a perfect world.[/QUOTE]
Gender dysphoria can not be solved solely with therapy. It can help, but it's not a cure. The cure is to take the hormones so their brain is fed the right hormone (which has been shown to help in trans patients), and get Sex Reassignment Surgery to better match their identity.
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